I think it depends on the owners personal preference, our breed the boston terrier can be shown natural or with cropped ears.I do not believe in cropping boston ears personally , with our dogs one of the things we breed for and have in our line are nice v-shaped ears that sit high on the head and set off the headpiece very nicely.In boxers danes dobermans cane corso ect I like cropped ears and tails.A properly done cropped ear can really be the icing on the cake for a really nice head.

ETA- that I do clip all dew-claws,I have had too many that have been torn and with our breed eye injuries are a big concern.

 

I really hate the idea of cutting off part of an animals body because we like the way it looks. Call me a crazy hippy naturalist but I just don't see how to justify it. I know that some say that the reason to dock tails is because they wack things and get hurt. Same idea with dew claws. Naturally if there is part of an animal that isn't essential that sometimes gets injured we should just cut it off during infancy. . .especially if we didn't like the way it looked anyway.

My coonhound does wack things with her tail and sometimes cracks it open and it bleeds. Tragic as it may sound, instead of CUTTING IT OFF I simply bandage it. She is still happy and healthy and not to mention she communicates with her tail. . .she DEFINATELY uses it. Dogs use their ears and tails to communicate with us and each other, as we are all aware.

I'm not on a crusade to condemn all of those who support cropping/docking, but I really don't consider cutting off body parts a matter of "personal preference."

 

My coonhound does wack things with her tail and sometimes cracks it open and it bleeds. Tragic as it may sound, instead of CUTTING IT OFF I simply bandage it. She is still happy and healthy and not to mention she communicates with her tail. . .she DEFINATELY uses it. Dogs use their ears and tails to communicate with us and each other, as we are all aware.

Unfortunately, your coonhound may do enough damage to it's tail that it may need to be amputated. Yes, it happens, it will get broken opened so many times that the nerves will die and the tail could get infected. That was the original intenet of docking a tail, to prevent such injuries, which many years ago could have cost the dog it's life if they happened in the field.

However docking is done right after birth, so it's FAR less traumatic than an amputation. The dog is still able to communicate with the smaller stump (I know mine does just fine).

As far as cropping, I have no problem with that as long as it's done PROPERLY and by a vet that is experienced in the procedure, However, I'd rather see natural than a bad crop ANY DAY. Then of course there's the aftercare. Posting is just as critical as the cut is and it certainly isn't foolproof. My girl wasn't properly posted and her ears are a disaster, most of hte damage was done befor I got her and I don't know how to post to correct it.

I have seen some crops that are ridiculous, such as the Dobe that took breed in Portland, the ears were so long they would NEVER stand as stiff and erect as they should, completely out of proportion to the animals head. I prayed the dog wouldn't take the class and thankfully it was the Boxer, who had a PERFECT crop that won.

 

wow...so soon?

 

I know. Wasn't the other thread just recently topped? It can't even be too far down.

 

I think for working dogs its great. Along with anything else that is helpful to them.

Otherwise I don't think its needed nor do I see a reason to do it. Especially with many of the breeders doing it for show, to keep the breeds look yet they crop the ears quite a bit longer then the working ancestors were cropped.

What do you think? I personally don't like it.... My mini schnauzer's tail got docked when he was just a baby but his ears are natural. I personally use the saying "Not your body not your dessision." What do you think?


*NOT JUDGING ANYONE*

I think the opposite. My dog is my decision, besides what they are allowed to do under free will I make the decisions. They are my responsibility. I chose if they will or won't have a surgery (whether that would be something elective like spay or crop), what collar they will wear, when/what they will eat, that they will be leashed on walks. Certainly not my body but my decisions to make none the less. I don't agree with letting a dog live their life without my decisions no more then any other animal or a child.

 

I think for working dogs its great. Along with anything else that is helpful to them.

Otherwise I don't think its needed nor do I see a reason to do it. Especially with many of the breeders doing it for show, to keep the breeds look yet they crop the ears quite a bit longer then the working ancestors were cropped.



I think the opposite. My dog is my decision, besides what they are allowed to do under free will I make the decisions. They are my responsibility. I chose if they will or won't have a surgery (whether that would be something elective like spay or crop), what collar they will wear, when/what they will eat, that they will be leashed on walks. Certainly not my body but my decisions to make none the less. I don't agree with letting a dog live their life without my decisions no more then any other animal or a child.

I do believe Spicy has got it all covered, personally I am fed up with the do-gooders attempting to make/force decisions on others. I don't agree with all the ear/nose/navel or any other body appendages that get pierced on a regular basis, but I will fight for your right to do so. Whether it's dogs or people, we will always have the edge walkers such as the Dobe owners that are attempting to mimic Dumbo the flying elephant's ears, a strong man being attacked by one of these Dumbo-eared Dobes defending his owner's home could grab both ears swing dog and break his back against a wall. There were reasons when a lot of the docking programs began that may seem archaic now but not originally. Whether a person is pro or con on docking as Spicy stated is a personal decision.

 

We just did this.

I have no issues with either....

 

I could live without either.

 

I don't want to be accused of being mean...but we did just have a very long thread about this...but I know we have a lot of new people

I don't mind as long as it is done properly by the right person.

 

I understand the frustration of repition but the forum is to be enjoyed by everyone and not just those of use (I'm guilty) who play on it all day long.

 

True...but thats what the search button is for

 

I don't like either. But sometimes I think Hailey's tail would be more comfortable if it was docked. Golly, she's vicious with that thing!

 

Yeah mine get happy tail all the time, on going battle. They still keep wagging despite the injury and it requires lots of clean up. I'd never dock them though.

 

I have no problem with it being done. aslong as it is all done by a vet who knows what they are doing (or breeder), not some garage hack job

 

I'm honestly getting to the point of not caring either way. It's bad, but it's true.

 

Wow why do we even have a search button anymore?

 

I don't have any problem with it. I would probably not do it to any dogs I own, unless I thought it was for the dog's health and well-being. But we, as owners, make decisions about our dogs' bodies all the time. It's really something that is the owner's decision.

 

I don't see any problem with cropping, docking or removing dewclaws on a dog when there's a real health related reason for it which there can be. I might even do it myself in that case.

Doing it just for looks? That's farther than I would go.

 

Allie, the point is that if the dogs tail is REPEATEDLY injured it could result in amputation NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE CARE. I've seen it happen, in fact one member of this board had it happen to her natural tailed Rottie. The tail bee so damaged the dogs tail caught on fire and the dog didn't feel it due to the permanent nerve damage.

 

When you're right, you're right. I don't disagree. My dogs tail doesn't get injured enough or severly enough that this would happen but again I do understand that it happens and I watch her closely to prevent it. I actually had to buy a new crate for her because most of the problem was wacking the tail on the wire of the first crate.

My point is that, yes this does happen to some dogs, so therefore is the solution to dock the tails of all dogs? We can't predict which dogs it will happen to so if the true reason we are docking tails is to prevent any harm to the tail that may or may not happen later in life (even though it is more likely to not happen), then the answer is yes we should dock all tails.

So to my point, if we are docking for health reasons we would dock all tails the way that we remove all dew claws (by "we" I mean the majority of people and the social norm). However, we don't because some dogs look better with a long tail and would look goofy with a docked tail. (Not to mention some dogs use their tails like a rudder when running such as cattle dogs but that is beside the point). So my conclusion is that we really dock tails for looks just as much as for health, which I don't agree with.

 

First off, I think there are new people on this board every day and they have the right to start threads and to add their opinion if they chose. Not really a big deal if another one is started or not.

How I feel on cropping and docking? I think it is GREAT if it is done by a veterinarian and the person taking care of the dog knows what they are doing and does it well. I have witnessed the tail docking and dew claw removal many times and I assure you, it is no big deal. As far as ears go, I really don't care either way, just take care of them if you do it. There are so many other things to worry about in dog care that to me, this is a silly fight. Puppy mills and dog fighting and starvation of animals comes to mind.

Crop/dock do your thing, but love an take wonderful care of your dog for the duration of it's life after you do it.

Allie, the point is that if the dogs tail is REPEATEDLY injured it could result in amputation NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE CARE. I've seen it happen, in fact one member of this board had it happen to her natural tailed Rottie. The tail bee so damaged the dogs tail caught on fire and the dog didn't feel it due to the permanent nerve damage.
__________________

Yup! That member was me and I can definitely say, that the "happy tail" experience is NOT so happy. Why have your dog in pain so often when you can just get rid of the problem and the dog can live a happy pain free life? Just my opinion.
As far as a dog communicating through it's tail, My dogs still wag their tails like crazy, they are just shorter now.

 

I feel people should have the choice to have natural or not,and still be able to show it and have it Judge the same as altered dogs.
I know the Parent Rottweiler club is very against it as far as to have Judges sign papers stating they will excuse any dog with a tail.( I know two Judges who did this).
Again it should be a choice,with that said I know that one day we will not have a say in the matter and all dogs will remain natural.

 

Yes, but a part of that standard is about the ears. The ears are supposed to 'fit' the dog. The ears on the dog I speak of were so long that they wouldn't 'stand' properly and the tips of the ears actually bounced up and down, they kind of looked like fairy wings flapping about. It really looked ridiculous. The bitch was nearly perfect otherwise but the crop ruined the effect.

 

I have to disagree with you here.

You have to keep in mind that conformation should be judging breeding stocking. And a crop that’s too long doesn't affect that dogs ability to produce perfectly acceptable ears. If the dog was nearly perfect in every other way, then that’s just not enough reason to rule her out of the competition.

Here is the explanation of ear cropping from the Doberman Pinscher club of America:

Ears are normally cropped and carried erect. “Normally cropped” means cropped in a normal manner. Normally cropped does not mean “usually cropped.” Cropped ears will always be carried erect on a fully mature Doberman. The upper attachment of the ear to the head should be level with the top of the backskull when the dog is alert. The shape of cropped ears can vary because veterinarians exert their own vision on the final shape.

As you can see they give allowances for a breeder’s or vet's preferences. Have you seen the crop the Michelle Santana does on her dogs? She uses pretty much all of the ear. Those crops have been getting very long as of late. But she still produces dogs that conform almost perfectly to the standard. And their health is amazing. To me that is much more important.

 

Fortunately we have advanced to the days that this will not happen to my coonhound.

Don't be so sure. I used to work at a state veterinary teaching hospital - a state of the art facility with some of the best vets in in the country.

One of the in-house blood donor dogs, a greyhound, had to have his tail amputated at 3 years of age because of happy tail. It was gruesome, and the dog had months of pain and recovery time.

I still remember coming in to work to that poor dog, frantic with pain, blood splashed on the walls and ceiling.

How is this less cruel than docking at 3 days, when the spine hasn't even meshed - and the puppy is back to suckling like normal in a minute or less?

I think sometimes it's hard to understand these things until you see the horrific alternative. Same thing with cropping - if you've never owned a cropped dog, or never seen a cropping, or never taken care of a cropped puppy... there's a BIG piece of the picture you're missing. (And I'm the first to say I'd rather see no crop than a bad crop.... but then again, my dogs come from a responsible breeder who flies in one of the best cropping vets in the country... sooo.... my dogs' crops are vastly different than the crops of many pets out there.)

 

I've had a change of heart on the docking/cropping issue over the past few months. A while back, I was going to adopt a rottie pup that still had a tail and I called all over looking for a vet that would dock it because I didn't like the look of a rottie with a tail......and no vets would do it because the pup was 8 weeks old. I didn't end up adopting that pup....not because of the tail but for other reasons. Anyways, I have 2 boxers....both with docked tails. My girl has a nicely docked tail but my boy's tail is blackened and bare at the tip....yet he came from a much better breeder with better veterinary care....sometimes it just happens that the dock job doesn't turn out nicely. Well I never gave much thought to them not having their tails.....until my pitty boy Bruno came along with his wonderfully long whippy tail. And now I truly wish with all my heart that my boxers still had their tails. Sometimes it makes me sad to think of someone cutting off their body part. I've already decided that if I ever get another boxer, I will hunt to find one that still has it's tail. I know several people in other countries will full tailed boxers that have never had a problem.....and my pitty has that same type of whippy tail....with no problems.....therefore, a few cases of "happy tail" is not a good enough reason to me to dock tails....just my opinion. Other countries have banned it because the average dog is not used for their original purpose anymore, hence making the reasons to dock the tails unnecessary. I know full well that "happy tail" does happen and that it's awful.....but if it were that prevelant, I think we'd be seeing a lot more docked pitbulls and breeds with similar tails..... yet we don't...

And as far as cropping ears, I never once considered it for my boxers or my pitty.......I don't judge people that do it, but I just can't understand why you want to put your pup through unnecessary surgery for nothing but cosmetic reasons.....kind of baffling to me. I wouldn't put my child through cosmetic surgery just because I didn't like the way his/her ears were shaped....just a comparison even though I know kids/dogs are totally different.

And with dewclaws.....my pitty has his still..........zero problems and he plays like crazy and has learned to "box" like my boxers do. Both my boxers have their dewclaws removed and it bothers me because I can feel the bone in their leg by the scar where their toe would have been attached. Again, I know that dewclaws sometimes get torn, but seeing that it's not all the time, I'd rather let them keep their toes.

Not arguing, just stating my opinion on this subject

 

And as far as cropping ears, I never once considered it for my boxers or my pitty.......I don't judge people that do it, but I just can't understand why you want to put your pup through unnecessary surgery for nothing but cosmetic reasons.....kind of baffling to me.

I think there are a lot of aspects of dog ownership that gets this reaction.

I see people who have otherwise well cared for and loved pets... but their nails are hideously long. It baffles me, how people can live with themselves and see those icky talons, day in and day out. In fact, in my opinion... cropping and docking is much less inhumane than overgrown nails - but that's just my opinion.

But, I'm the kind of person who dremels weekly, and my dogs' nails are less than a centimeter long. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 

Ear cropping I don't really agree with but I have owned a rottie/lab cross before and I do believe his tail should have been cropped. Not for beauty reasons but because he actually had such a strong tail that he hit it off a table once and it bled like crazy! He knocked a lot of things off of tables and when his tail would wag, he would leave bruises if it hit you.
I don't agree with ear cropping just because I haven't seen any reasons to do it.

 

Just a comment on what other countries have done as far as outlawing croppi g and docking, those countries have taken away the right for owners to choose on ALL elective surgery. InGermany and many other places it's also illegal to spay/ nueter and while their pet populations haven't gone up, their amputation rates have skyrocketed.

 

Aahh, but the digs ears didn't stand erect, they flopped at the tip, the crop was too long to stand properly and was made worse when moving. Yes, I've seen

Yes, I've seen the crops michelle does, they are beautiful and artistic, this one wasn't IMO. There was too much lenth to be supported by the amount of tissue taken away.