A friend of mine adopted a Yorkie from rescue that the previous owners had debarked, the poor little thing has SOOO many problems from the surgery due to scar tissue. I'd LOVE to get my hands on the person and remove THEIR vocal cords.

 

I think it's weird. If you don't like barking either don't get a dog or train your dog not to bark.

I also have to say that on one occasion I witnessed a total personality change in a dog who was debarked. I swear it was depressed.

 

I'ld be depressed too if my primary form of communication was taken away from me!

Jihad
and the pound puppy crew.

 

I think people that debark a dog are lazy jerks who deserve the same done to them. Humans bred dogs to bark and now some of us are too lazy to train our dogs so we take away a vital part of what a dog is...WTH? Don't get a dog if you can't handle dog behavior, IMO. Personally, I love that my dog barks to alert me about something around the house. As a single young girl in a city, any help I can get for detecting a possible threat is good.

 

Well, I won't pretend that my opinion means anything---the people who approve of it won't suddenly change their minds because of me---but I do think it's a reprehensible practice. I've never heard a de-barked dog make noises (the only de-barked dogs I've met were at a puppymill and the silence was eerie), but I've heard it's worse than a bark.

 

I knew a collie named Lady that had this done to her. I remember the first time she made a noise I looked at my mom and said "What is wrong with Lady mom?" and she told me her friend had her de-barked because all she did was sit in the yard and bark all day. These people had 5 other dogs that ran loose and Lady was kept in a small run because she was aggressive toward their cats. I felt so bad for her. Its such a horrible sound

 

This is completely inhumane and poor pet ownership. I can't believe a vet would do this elective surgery. Hello - dogs bark! I like it when my dog barks when a stranger knocks at the door. I came across this poll on my.arfie.com - What is your primary pet-related "hot-button" issue? I have to say all choices are hot topics with me.

 

Don't ask this on a sheltie board, lol!

Coming from having a breed that is probably the most debarked breed I have mixed opinions.

Shelties bark A LOT and VERY LOUDLY. If you do not like barking dogs, do NOT by any means at all get a sheltie. It is often something you can't train out of them completely. sure, they'll be quiet lying around the house, but many will bark the whole time they do something. (have you ever watched one run agility?) That is my first spiel. If barking bothers you so much, don't get a breed known to bark a lot!

In shelties it is sometimes a routine procedure. Many breeders will just debark their dogs and pups to not have to deal with the barking issue. I think this is WRONG.

However, I have known a few dogs where I think debarking was the kindest option for them. Nothing, no amount of training would stop the incessant barking with these guys. It is not for your typical dog barking. Often if the owner rents it is either debark the dog or surrender the dog. I would much rather see a dog debarked than PTS. If all other options have been exhausted then I see no problem with it. It's when it's a bandaid solution to normal dog barking and lack of training that I don't agree.

If you want to know what a debarked dog sounds like go to the sheltie breed ring and I bet at least a third there will be debarked. They're not silent sounding. It is a quieter bark and sometimes sounds quite raspy to hear. I would personally rather have a normal bark because the debarked dogs are kind of like nails on a chalk board to me, but that's personal opinion.

Overall, though, the dogs I've known who were debarked (and I've known a lot) do not suffer from this procedure IF it is done properly by a vet. A lot of problems you see are from millers and people 'debarking' themselves. It can have horrible consequences. If done properly though it is a lot less invasive than other routine elective surgeries like cropping or spaying. I have never known a sheltie that had ANY adverse effects from debarking. They've all lived long, happy lives and seem very unaware that their bark has quietened at all. They can still communicate though- that's a common misconception is that they cannot make a sound anymore. They can and do, it's just softened.

So yes, there's my complex opinion. Do I agree with it? Not usually. Is it as bad as it's made out to be? No.

 

I would much rather see a dog debarked than PTS. If all other options have been exhausted then I see no problem with it. It's when it's a bandaid solution to normal dog barking and lack of training that I don't agree.

Yes, I agree.
I believe that debarking is a better alternative than having the dog euthanized.

I have owned a sheltie, and we never had her de-barked, but we went to court several times due to a neighbor complaining about her barking...during the day.....

 

I'm all for it for dogs that are difficult and very, very noisy. And if debarking would keep a dog from being dumped or worse shot, (it happens) then I say go for it.

Contrary to what some well intentioned people think, there are some dogs that you just simply cannot teach to shut up. Some dogs get their kicks from running their mouth, and in breeders like Collies and Shelties, it only takes ONE dog like that to get EVERYONE stirred up.

Does the debarking take away their bark? No. But it does take away that high pitched edge, and I can live with that more than I can a regular bark.

I've gotten dogs done before, and I will again should I ever get in one that I feel needs it. I actually went back in the back with my bitch and the Vet showed me how they did it, it was quick, easy and she recovered fast and I've never seen a debarked dog with problems from it's debark. And all the dogs I've seen that have been debarked never acted differently, they were even happier afterward because they weren't getting in trouble for running their mouth.


Some info interested people can read over. http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/debark_qna.htm

 

I don't think we're in a position to judge someone who has had their dog debarked, for reasons we may not be aware of. I personally would not do it, but then, I know of people with small breeds who were faced with having to get rid of their dog(s) or get them debarked, because of the complaints of their neighbors. If I had been in that position, well, I may have made the same choice, rather than lose the dog.

My (rescue) male's first owner debarked him. He still barked, but it wasn't loud at all, and sounded sort've raspy. He didn't appear affected by it in the least. He's not a problem barker, so I don't know why it was done. However, after a couple of years, his voice came back - he CAN bark normally now. I've heard horror stories about gagging and retching, and dogs aspirating the vomit.

My neighbor has a Doxie who barks at everything that moves. He barks and shrieks and literally screams when they take him out walking. I have to take a deep breath and maybe go get a glass of wine! LOL (At this rate, I'll end up an alcoholic!) I REALLR wouldn't mind if they debarked that dog!

 

I would never do it to a dog of mine. I can see where having several small yappy dogs it would be a big temptation for a lot of folks though.

 

Okay, why small yappy dogs? I never get this. Yes a lot of small breeds are vocal, but so are a lot of large breeds. You are more likely to see this in collies than any toy breed.

 

Alright, I am NOT ripping on a breed or group of breeds, I am just seriously curious. If Shelties as a breed bark so much isn't their anything breeders can do about that? Breed dogs with quieter voices and less barky dogs. It must be a hereditary trait to some degree if it runs more commonly in certain breeds.

As far as how I feel about debarking? I just don't understand why people get breeds that are known to be barkers and then debark. I have not seen this surgery done so I know nothing about how quickly they recover or how it affects the dogs mentally afterward. If it has to be done for some reason, It would be my hope that people would seek out a vet that is skilled in the procedure, not go for convenience alone.

 

Alright, I am NOT ripping on a breed or group of breeds, I am just seriously curious. If Shelties as a breed bark so much isn't their anything breeders can do about that? Breed dogs with quieter voices and less barky dogs. It must be a hereditary trait to some degree if it runs more commonly in certain breeds.

Why do breeders not breed out other 'not-desirable' traits in other breeds? Dog aggression is something I think is highly undesirable to me but the people who get breeds prone to DA accept it and deal with it. Why don't pit bull breeders breed out the DA by breeding 'cold' dogs? You can make the same argument for any behavior trait that can potentially cause a problem. Barking doesn't bother me one bit at all, so having a talkative sheltie isn't a big deal to me. It's not that shelties and collies bark all the time (mine is asleep at my feet, in fact I don't think he's barked at all today oddly enough), but they are generally set off easier and harder to shut up. As it's been mentioned it's due to their original work and work style. It's just part of what the breed is.

Most shelties/collies are fairly normal about barking, even if more vocal. They bark when they hear something unusual, they bark when they get excited, etc. When you start having more than one is when it can get interesting as they tend to feed off each other and get louder and louder, lol. Some will become OCD about barking and it's not the owner's fault. Most instances it's neighbors that are complaining, NOT the owner. If you've ever lived near a fussy neighbor, you'll understand somewhat. There's plenty of reasons someone might not think barking is a big deal then have to move or rent someplace where it might become a big deal.

To be honest, I don't see how it's much different from tail docking/cropping/etc. People often do that for aesthetics, tradition, or to 'preemptively' prevent damage that might never even happen to those body parts. But it's done all the same (and is similarly controversial).
To me, surgery to muffle barking to 'preemptively' avoid problems assoicated with it (or for sheer convenience) isn't that different from cosmetic surgery to make a dog look a certain way. It's all elective surgery. The people who debark defend the value of it the same way people who support cropping/docking justify their end. The fact that some people could otherwise lose their dog(s) because of barking actually makes debarking more justifiable, in my opinion. It doesn't make a dog completely mute (which some people seem to think). Debarked dogs can bark just fine, it's just quieter. You may as well accuse tail docking of 'damaging the dog's ability to communicate' because it doesn't have a complete tail to wag.

I agree entirely. I think it is generally MUCH more justifiable than cropping and docking. It's always weird to me to see people support cropping and docking and call debarking cruel. All are elective surgeries, and debarking has potential benefits just like the rest of them. I think it's been sensationalized a bit and the name tends to set people off. Once again, debarked dogs CAN bark and therefore CAN communicate. It's just quieter.

 

interesting.

i was just curious. i can see it being prudent if the situation was such that the dog either had to be debarked or be put in a shelter/put down but wouldnt it the case that it was a last resort when the cops had already become involved kinda thing? i dunno...the particular debarked dog i met i think was a convienience thing and i think that is something that i dont agree with.

sure was awful hearing a hound make that kind of noise......it just was kinda off.

 

Two of my collies wer debarked before I got them. The bark was not completely silenced in either dog. They just sounded as if they had larengytis. Neither suffered any adverse reaction and both were done by the breeder's vet with the breeder present.

Personally, unless it was a last resort, I would not have had them de-barked or have any dog of mine debarked. But, if I'd done everything possible to train the dog or use medication for a dog that barked due to SA for example, I would have the dog debarked to save it's life. I have to admit that, since the collies' barks didn't set off other dogs and didn't disturb others that I was lax in training them to be quiet, which I would not have been (lax) if they'd had their full voices.

 

I think it's a very cruel thing to do...if you cannot stand the sound of a dog barking, then get a cat...that's my opinion.

Dogs are going to bark, you can train them and work with them so they do not bark ALL the time, but to think when you are getting a dog that it is ALWAYS going to be perfectly quiet and you won't have to work with it at all, that is just insane....

I think people who debark their dogs are just looking for an easy way out of a problem that probably could've been avoided had they worked with their dog in the beginning or done some research on their breed before buying/adopting it.
Why people get a dog that is prone to bark a lot and then complain about it barking a lot is beyond me...

I guess it is a good thing we can't "de-voice" humans with a surgery whenever we got sick of hearing someone...I can just imagine how many voiceless people we'd have walking around...I'd probably be one of them

 

I think it's a very cruel thing to do...if you cannot stand the sound of a dog barking, then get a cat...that's my opinion.

Why people get a dog that is prone to bark a lot and then complain about it barking a lot is beyond me...

Well....In the first place, I have a question for you.
Would you rather euthanize/give up your dog, or have your dog de-barked, if those were your only two choices?

In the second place, it is more often NOT the owner of the dog who complains about the barking, but other people, such as neighbors.

 

It'd take a lot for me to debark a dog, or condone the procedure on another dog. I do agree that a debarked dog is better than a dog that has been put to sleep because of obsessive barking issues or trouble with AC. I absolutely do not agree with dogs being debarked because the owner can't be bothered to explore the training options open to him to solve his dog's barking problem. That speaks of laziness to me.

As a point of interest: just wondering what the parallels are between debarking and s/n. Some would say that save extreme cases (emergency spay/debarking when absolutely necessary), both are invasive surgical procedures done purely for the owner's convenience.

 

I'm not sure about the shelties, but Collies use their voice more than other herding breeds while herding. They've always been barkier.

 

From the little I've seen of Shelties herding, they're the same way -- more vocal herders.

 

I'm lucky my little girl only ever barks if there is someone at the door to let me know or while we're playing.

I don't like the idea of getting a dog de-barked. Drives me nuts when I loose my voice. But on the other hand I know a few humans that should get de-barked lol

 

To be honest, I don't see how it's much different from tail docking/cropping/etc. People often do that for aesthetics, tradition, or to 'preemptively' prevent damage that might never even happen to those body parts. But it's done all the same (and is similarly controversial).
To me, surgery to muffle barking to 'preemptively' avoid problems assoicated with it (or for sheer convenience) isn't that different from cosmetic surgery to make a dog look a certain way. It's all elective surgery. The people who debark defend the value of it the same way people who support cropping/docking justify their end. The fact that some people could otherwise lose their dog(s) because of barking actually makes debarking more justifiable, in my opinion. It doesn't make a dog completely mute (which some people seem to think). Debarked dogs can bark just fine, it's just quieter. You may as well accuse tail docking of 'damaging the dog's ability to communicate' because it doesn't have a complete tail to wag.

 

The same logic could be used to say that people who s/n are just lazy, and that if they were just willing to do the training/proper supervision of their dogs there would be no accidental matings. Plenty of breeders manage it, and the countries where s/n is illegal (and they have no pet overpopulation problem) shows that it can be done. Does that mean that pet owners are just taking 'the easy way' out? Should they be criticized for it? Should we say if someone can't be 'bothered' to restrain their dog to prevent unwanted matings, they shouldn't have a dog at all and are horrible owners?

You could just as easily say that S/N is an invasive surgery (a small number of dogs even die or suffer lifelong complications from it) that's performed for the convenience of the owner, so they no longer have to do all the work to ensure their dogs won't mate. Does that make S/N cruelty? It raises the chances of certain cancers just as it lowers the risk of others (and Pyo). So it's not even a purely 'health positive' choice for a dog. For some dogs it may not even be a good option at all, because of health reasons. For that situation, would you say someone who still S/Ned them was being a bad owner?

Is elective surgery done for the benefit of the owner's peace of mind ever justifiable, then? Because if you say 'no', then docking/cropping/removing dewclaws, S/N, AND debarking should ALL be stigmatized in the same way. And debarking is actually one of the the least destructive out of all of those procedures.

In my mind, if I accept that docking/cropping is okay, and S/N is okay, logically I have to also admit that debarking is also okay. Otherwise I'm holding a double-standard based on, frankly, arbitrary feelings that aren't based on actual facts.

Yeah, there are MANY choices and options. There is no ONE right answer, or one easily-applied moral judgement you can place on people who do any of those surgeries to their dogs.

 

Sorry but, comparing spaying and neutering a pet with debarking a dog is like comparing apples to oranges...
Spaying and neutering your pets, while there is some risk involved, there's more health benefits that come from it than not...

For female pets, there are numerous benefits to having them spaying. Just a few of them are: Decreased risks of mammary tumors. (When an ovariohysterectomy (OHE) is performed prior to the first heat period in a female dog, the risk of mammary cancer later in life is less than 1%. When OHE is performed between the first and second heat periods the risk is about 8% of mammary cancer later in life. Anytime after the second heat period the risk of mammary cancer in female dogs is about 25% less than it would be without having surgery)

Another benefit is a decreased risk of developing pyometria. In dogs uterine infections are a greater risk than in other species, due to the unusual way in which dogs have estrus cycles. The long interval between cycles with a closed cervix leads to severe infections developing with minimal clinical signs and so the condition often is life threatening at the time it is discovered.

For male pets there are also many health benefits to being altered, some of which are:
Reduction in benign prostrate hypertrophy (supported by studies).
Reduction in prostatic infections.
Elimination of testicular cancer.
Reduces the risk of perianal adenomas ( a tumor that occurs around the rectum in male dogs later in life).

So while exposing your pet to anesthesia has a risk, at least when it is done for the purpose of spaying and neutering, a greater good comes out of it. Over all, for the majority of pets, your pet will be healthier....
As far as debarking is concerned, your dog is still exposed to anesthesia, but, they won't be receiving any health benefits from it.
Debarking can actually cause problems later on down the road such as laryngenial scarring and respiratory problems.

If a dog is barking, normally there is a reason for it, and if people wanted to and took the time, most of the time they could find the root of that problem and work with their dog....just imagine having your only form of communication taken away from you...you no longer have a way to get people's attention or show that you are happy or excited...it's gone.
I'm a firm believer that not all "dog owners" were meant to own dogs, they just don't think about all the responsibility and things that come along with it before getting a dog and unfortunately, it's always the dog that pays the price...

I'm not trying to pass my moral judgment on anyone, simply share my opinion on it which I am entitled to and everyone else is entitled to theirs.
I personally feel it's wrong and it will NEVER happen to any of my dogs...
I feel like this thread is sort of going in circles so I guess I'll end my part of it here...

 

I personally don't think I could do that to my dog but as others have said I've never been in a position to either get rid of my dog from their barking or have them de-barked. I don't know the specifics of how this surgery is done (I might need to look it up because I'm curious) even though I worked at a veterinary clinic for many years. The only experience I've ever had with a de-barked dog was with my aunt's corgi (the dog was already de-barked when my aunt got her years ago). She seemed to act fine and didn't have a problem communicating with the other dogs and it just sounds like she has a sore throat.

So overall I think it's better to have the dog de-barked rather than euthanized at a shelter. But I think de-barking should be a last resort after they've alread tried more exercise and mental stimulation etc.