Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
It's also worth noting that little puppies can easily sleep 18 hours per day. They need it to grow.

My pup Jet at that age would actively resist sleeping as long as something even vaguely interesting was happening around the house, so he'd get overtired and frazzled and bitey, and then as soon as I'd put him in his crate he'd immediately flop over and conk out. He needed the rest but he wasn't able to make a good choice on his own, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
I don't really see a moral or practical difference between confining the dog in crate, versus in a pen or even a room like a mudroom or bathroom. I mean, if the crate is tiny, sure, but a crate shouldn't be cramped. For a puppy, what's the real difference between a crate and a pen? The pen doesn't have a lid? That just means the pen is escapable for an athletic dog, and ergo less practical, not that the pen is more humane.

I'm sure there are people whose crate use is abusive, but I don't think crates are, in and of themselves, abusive. In a lot of situations, too, crates are the lesser evil. If you have a dog that's a real escape artist or is a massive chewer (of the sort you can't puppy-proof for, because they'll eat through things like drywall), it's not kind to let them destroy their teeth, get blockages, run away, etc. Of course one should try different management and training approaches to mitigate the problem, but in the meantime you can't just let the dog kill itself or destroy the house.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
It may be in the general idea of a crate.. big enough to stand and lie down, that's kinda it.
Sure, I think that's the advice for crate size (or to use a divider to make a larger crate that size) if you have a difficult-to-housetrain dog, because they won't dirty where they have to lay, so you can get them in the habit of not relieving themselves indoors when left unattended. But for a dog that's already got the concept of housetraining, I don't see any reason the crate has to be that small.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
On the other hand I’ve talked to dozen of owners that need help with their dog that shows clear signs of distress, under-stimulation, discomfort and separation anxiety, meanwhile they’re crating their dogs for hours each day and stand by that method.
The absolute majority of the crates I’ve seen are absolutely tiny considering the time they’re being used.
I thought crates were illegal there? Are these people breaking the law? Or were you abroad?

However when the dogs are not puppies anymore the idea is to give them free access to most of the house. However I see no issue with confining them in a particular room while gone and I can’t see how you could equalize that to a crate.
The dog crate I have (which sometimes it gets used, sometimes not, depends on the dogs and the situations) literally can't be set up in my bathroom or mudroom, because it's bigger than the available floorspace. And it's not a special order or anything, it's just a normal wire portable kennel.

The dog you’re describing either suffer from extreme separation anxiety and/or under-stimulation or similar. Obviously this dog is under great amount of stress and shouldn’t be left in that condition. This is also my point, a crate will allow the owner to escape responsibility to properly train or take care of their dog since they can stop the behavior that affects them by shutting the dog in a crate. Meanwhile the dog does still suffer from the same issues, the only difference is that they can’t make no mess due to the crate.
Sure, but dealing with something like separation anxiety doesn't happen overnight. The owner can't stay home with the dog 24/7 in the meantime, and you can't let the dog hurt itself, escape, or destroy the house while you're working on the problem.

It's easy to say "then you shouldn't have a dog," but that's a pat little non-solution, isn't it? Rehoming a destructive dog or an escape artist is easier said than done.

Moreover, it's common for dogs to go through a destructive phase in adolescence, then grow out of it. In that case, a crate is one potential tool for managing a temporary situation, and can allow the dog and owners to enjoy long lives together by getting past that stage of life safely and sanely. There's a reason if you go to a dog shelter it's usually largely populated by dogs between 8 months and 2 years old.

I know that in Scandinavia animal shelters don't euthanize for space, but in the US over 1.5 million pets are killed annually by shelters. Working through an issue or managing it so the dog can stay safely in a home is generally preferable to giving up the dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
No, I’ve talked to people. Through internet.
If I based my views on how people are and how the world works on internet interactions and observations, I'd have to shoot myself.

Hmm, or you could just learn how to train and care for the dog in another way.
The only solutions you've suggested are locking the dog in something other than a crate (which is still locking the dog up, it just skirts your local laws) and not leaving the dog alone. Most people have to work outside the home, and have other commitments that they can't take a dog along to, so the latter isn't really practical. So please tell about these other ways?
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top