Sniffing is great, it works the dog's mind and makes walks a lot more interesting for them (and more tiring).

You can work to reduce sniffing to a degree, look up "Premack Principle" for concepts of using sniffing itself as a reward.

But really, if he isn't dragging you along, he isn't eating things off the ground and he just likes to sniff? That's a reasonable and natural behavior, especially if he is a hound or hound mix.

 

Be aware that whatever method you use, stopping a dog from sniffing is similar to stopping a person from looking at new surroundings ... smells are changing every day.

I agree with both of these. My mindset when I walk my dogs is, while I enjoy being out with them and get some exercise, the walk is really for the dogs benefit and so I happily allow them to sniff.

 

I use an e-collar with 10 different settings on both momentary and continuous, a vibration mode, and a tone (I tested it on myself first so I know exactly what he feels at each level, but have never had to go past 7, and that was only in the beginning of training when he was extremely hyper and so focused that nothing else, not even all the previous stimulation levels and tone, would snap him out of it). Usually, just the tone (no stimulation) will get him to break focus and pay attention to me. Even with the stimulation, I use the lowest setting he responds to (which is how they are meant to be used, not as a punishment just a reinforcement). Usually that level is 3 but if he is very distracted with other dogs around and traffic, it can move up to a 5.

Like you, I tried everything prior to getting an e-collar (treats, leash tug, firm commands, etc.). I got one specifically with the vibration AND a tone, so I only use the stimulation when absolutely necessary. Even then, I always stop stimulation and reward with treats/kibble and praise the instant he responds.

If you do use an e-collar, definitely get a new one. The old ones (and the owners who do not know how to use them properly) gave ALL of them a bad name. The modern ones are great tools to have in your training toolbox.

That being said, an e-collar should not be the first tool you reach for, but it should not be ruled out if you are still having issues.

 

Be aware that whatever method you use, stopping a dog from sniffing is similar to stopping a person from looking at new surroundings ... smells are changing every day.

 

Agreed.

I should have stated in my response that I am training mine to be my service dog, therefore he needs to be attentive to me and our surroundings but not distracted by smells or other events.

 

I know that normal sniffing is normal, but this isn't just a dog sniffing. This is a dog that has a magnet on his nose and the floor is metal.
He knows he's doing wrong because of how he responds to being corrected, but it's like he is addicted and can't stop himself from doing it.
I know the blame is going to go this way as soon as I mention it, but he has anxiety that results in compulsive and repetitive behaviors and I believe this is one of them.
This might be something that someone would have to see to understand. I think I need a doggy psychiatrist. :-/

 

How well does he obey and respond to you when you are not on walks? It may be necessary to go back and solidify that area of training before proceeding to training outdoors. Once he instantly responds and obeys at home, away from all the distractions, then move on to more intricate and distracting areas for training. There is nothing wrong with taking a step back to solidify training. Crawl, walk, run, etc. You'll get it.

 

I try hard to train with positive and negative reinforcement rather than punishment. My dogs are so soft they act worse if I try to use punishment to change behavior.

Sassy and Max were not quite as bad as your guy but they would lunge to sniffy places and not want to leave. I decided to try clicker training and planned to count how long they sniffed on average then reward sniffs that were shorter. I didn't talk while counting they got worse and sniffed much longer. Teeny light bulb went on over my head. I started praising them when they lifted their heads and moved away from that sniffy place. I didn't even use treats, just happy words. It actually worked! They sniffed for only 15 seconds rather than 30-45 and they weren't lunging to get to those spots as it was no longer forbidden and I wasn't annoyed that they were sniffing. Well I was still annoyed but dogs don't really get sarcasm.

I went with this plan of action and now freeze when dog's nose goes down. Dog is allowed to sniff as much and as long as they like within the circle of the leash's reach. I now wait until the annoyed dog looks at me to move on. Happy words and off we go. When starting this and when in new places I do treat as well.

Try it. Take a book with you, listen to music - anything to take your mind off how annoying that sniffing is and let him do it as much as he pleases but stop walking when nose goes down. When he pulls and you don't move eventually he will look at you. It will seem like hours but time it, probably less than 5 minutes. PRAISE him to the skies, give him a treat and move on. Probably in 3 steps his nose will go back down and you freeze again. Just time the walk and when half your time is gone go home. I tend to do in and out walks so am going back over the exact same ground and usually the dogs walk faster on the return trip.

 

What are you goals? Simply to stop the excessive sniffing? Or to stop the sniffing altogether?

I allow my dog to sniff as we walk, but the moment his actions hinder his working ability or make me need to stop and wait for him, that is when it is an issue. He can sniff all he wants, but it cannot interfere with his duties or hinder forward progress.

Again, I'm training my dog to be my service dog, so my goals may not be the same as yours.

 

You're using a shock collar to train a service dog?

 

Wait. Someone is actually recommending a shock collar to combat sniffing and inattentiveness ??? Good grief.

Apparently. Not as a punishment though, but for reinforcement .. because that is how they are supposed to be used.

 

Sassy and Max were sniffing fairly normally but when I stopped talking to them clearly they were stressed by my change in behavior so sniffed longer and more obsessively. Forbidding something makes it more desirable for sure. I was allowing sniffing but forcing them to leave. Changing it around so they knew I appreciated them leaving was a huge shift in my attitude and sure dropped their stress level.

Imagine there is something you must do but nobody approves of it? Think left handed people forced to be right handed. You are forbidding the dog to use what is likely his most important sense and he is frantically trying to get it in over your disapproval.

 

I let my dogs sniff all they want on walks. I would never correct for sniffing, that's cruel. It's obviously something that he enjoys doing. I have a "lets go" command when they need to leave a spot alone and carry on.

 

I taught Chester a ten-second rule. If he gets focused on one spot (particularly when he is looking at a place to mark or not), I count down from 10 out loud and then say "Okay, walk on" in an upbeat but definite tone and a slight tug on the leash as needed. I can't figure if he actually understands my counting down by now or if he just has learned to judge that time frame himself, but he almost always finishes his sniffing or sniffing+marking before I have to tell him to move along.

Eva wasn't a sniffer when I got her and she's slowly developed a sniffing habit on walks with Chester (learning from the guide I guess) and it is great. Instead of pulling like a freight train the entire time, she sniffs and observes and works her little mind a bit and only pulls half the time and yet the walk ends up being more tiring for her than when she drags a person behind her for a few miles

 

Yes. My apologies. I was typing too fast and missed the word "unpleasant". P+ is adding something unpleasant/aversive to decrease a behavior. R- Is removing something unpleasant/aversive to increase behavior.

The other quadrants are R+ (adding something good to increase behavior) and P- (removing something good to decrease behavior).

The way you're using the collar, even if it's not HURTING the dog and causing pain, it's still something the dog finds unpleasant enough that he wants to figure out how to stop it. If he didn't, then it wouldn't work.

 

If you're having electrically shock a dog to get it to pay attention to you under ordinary circumstances and when it's on a leash right next to you, you might want to either rethink your methods, or consider whether working as a service dog isn't its natural inclination, or that being a trainer of service dogs isn't yours.

 

Yep this.

To the OP; my dog is basically nose to the ground for our entire walks. I don't see a problem with it. She enjoys it and the walks are for her, not me.

 

double post

 

The keynote speaker at the ClickerExpo conference dinner was from a service dog organization that uses ONLY positive reinforcement. Not even negative punishment, if I was understanding correctly. It was absolutely amazing the things these dogs did, the sheer number of behaviors. All through R+

 

Wow, an entire page of people arguing about shock collars even though the mention of it was a sarcastic joke to illustrate a point.

Now the thread is completely off topic and I'm asking for it to be closed.

Reinforcing basic training in the stressful environment where the behavior is occuring seems to be the likely way to proceed, thank you to everyone who stayed on topic.

 

Mods rarely close threads, and certainly not simply because a poster doesn't like the responses they're getting. Given that you brought up using an ecollar in your original post, whether sarcastic or not, people's response to it is certainly not off topic. People will respond to what you post, and given that tone is very difficult to decipher on the internet, people will assume that you are serious unless it's made very obvious that you are in fact being sarcastic.

 

Back to the original question...

Pepper used to annoy me so much with her sniffing when I would take her on walks! She was either glued to one spot and I couldn't move her, or she was pulling at the end of the leash to get to the next great sniffing spot. I have 30 minutes to walk her in the morning before work and she wanted to spend her time sniffing instead of getting exercise!

First we worked on her leash manners. She was horrible with loose leash walking, but I kept up with it and eventually she picked up on it and that's helped a lot. The other thing I've found that works for her is if I pick up my pace. If I'm jogging, she's jogging and doesn't have as much time to stop and get fixated on anything. I suck at jogging though so we only do that intermittently Also, depending on the area and time I'm walking, I walk in the middle of the street if I can, or at least off the sidewalk. There's less to sniff on the concrete than there is in the grass. It keeps her moving along.

I also realized she has to sniff in order to know where she is and to take in her surroundings. So now I allow her to stop and sniff sometimes, but when I say "okay let's go" she needs to start walking again (usually within a minute). I used treats (really smelly, high value ones) to lure her away from the sniffing area. If that wasn't working I would just hold the treat and wait for her to look at me (even if it's just for a second) and then I'd click and praise and give her the treat. If she wouldn't look at me, I'd settle for her just looking up at all in any direction.

Hopefully some of this might be helpful to you. If you have a hound it could be much more challenging though, you'll have to find some super duper smelly treats that your dog really loves.

 

I know dogs sniff normally, but this isn't normal sniffing.
What you described, like stopping dead and sniffing or going from tree to tree, or sniffing the air, or a street sign is normal of dogs, I understand this.
However, what my dog is doing isn't like that.
A walk is literally a head down rush while never stopping at anything, not pulling, and continuous sniffing of the ground.
Blindly walking until a wall hits him in the face. He's hesitant to even pick his head up off the floor after running face first into it. Then starts doing it immediately after.
It's like a compulsion that he must complete and can't help it.
He's a border collie and not a hound breed.

 

Sounds like it's just annoying to you and not a real problem. Try to understand that dogs are not humans and it's very natural for them to sniff. And to me, being able to sniff is kinda the whole point of the walk. A walk is not going to really exercise most dogs, it's just getting them out of the house so they stay sane.

If you are really concerned, hire a behaviorist. Although he/she will probably tell you the same thing. A positive reinforcement trainer might be able to help you work on it - after they tell you it's normal behavior.

 

Your added description makes more sense at to why you think this behavior is a problem. I have a dog who does this and she will walk into sticks and prickers because she doesn't look up and screams almost the entire walk because she is so overwhelmed with all the scents. Have you tired bringing treats on your walks and rewarding him for looking at you? If he ignores treats can you use a toy to get his attention?

 

I think the real issue here is the dog isn't suited to being a service dog. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and you can't make an extremely anxious dog into a service dog. It doesn't work. You can wreck the dog trying to pound that square peg into a round hole, but it's never going to be the stable, confident dog that you need for service work.

 

OP, you could try putting a very small dab of Vick's vapo rub on the end of his nose before embarking on your walk. It may provide some short term relief. Not my preferred method especially for the long term, but it might be a good interim solution while you seek advice and direction elsewhere. ie: trainer or behaviorist

edit: I believe it was a different poster, not the OP, who had ideas of training a service dog and with an e collar ?

 

This is the type of thread that can get people like me in trouble....because USUALLY before I answer something, I will read, and RE-read the OP's original question. In this case, a mention of the use of a shock collar is not in the OP's post, but I do notice that it has been edited, even though others responding have mentioned that it was..so, okay...working a little bit blind here without TRUTH. If there is any animal on Earth that mimics humans it is the dog. Not only do they mimic our behaviors (as such, neuroses), they unfortunately are the product of our health issues as well, but that is another conversation.

So what I take from the OP's initial question is that he/she has used negative reinforcement, positive reinforcement, and positive punishment, but she has NOT used the term that sounds so horrible, but which goes hand in hand with positive reinforcement, and that is negative punishment. Sounds horrible, but if positive reinforcement is done correctly, you can't help BUT employ negative punishment. And before everybody has a heart attack, the definition of negative punishment simply means "taking something good or desirable away to reduce the occurrence of a particular behavior." So what does this mean to the OP? It means simply that on her walks with her dog who she says will slam into a wall due to her sniffing, is to simply STOP WALKING if the dog is in that frame of mind. Has he/she tried this? If so, for how long, and for how many times?

Skinner acknowledges that the success of this foursome depends on the will of the individual doling it out. I believe I've recently given an example of an adult dog I took in who developed a neurosis for wanting attention, and how I finally cured it after trying everything BUT negative punishment. Please note, this was a dog I was highly frustrated with....a dog I was ready to send back to a horrible environment...but I didn't do it. Negative punishment HAS to be a part of positive reinforcement for the whole "positive" thing to work....and for the truly difficult dog, that means investing actual TIME...which I recognize can be difficult for people today that expect immediate results.

A dog that is obsessed with sniffing? Mozzarella, if you are only wanting a pet, just stop walking, don't address the dog, and it may take a while but only start walking again when the dog is calm. It could take awhile, but you don't need shock collars and collar jerks because what your dog is doing isn't about needing that. You may think that because you say he "knows he is doing something wrong" when you actively hurt him, but obviously this is a false statement, because dogs, by nature when they truly understand something are not vindictive. Most people who try to tell people that their dog is bad because they say their dog "knows" what they do is bad, doesn't really understand dogs or behavior.

If a person lets a puppy alone in a house free, and that puppy gets in the garbage and makes a mess, and that puppy gets beaten, the PERSON will think they have given a lesson to that puppy. In reality, that puppy has no freaking idea why it got beaten. So the next day and for many days afterwards, when the puppy does what puppies will do, get into the trash, it gets beaten, eventually, it will "look guilty" simply because it has a terrified look on its face when the owner comes through the door, because it has now associated the owner coming through the door with getting beaten, and NOT because it got in the trash.

Utilize negative punishment for your dog who you say will run into a wall, and who you say will only stop with physical intervention (whether that is by a shock collar that you may have deleted from an original post, or your foot and hand that still remains....try just STOPPING and allowing your dog to understand "calmness." Of course positive reinforcement (food, etc) won't work, because his sniffing behavior is more positive than whatever you can offer NOW. Employ simply removing what he deems as positive. Which is access. It is not quick. It is not a push of a button to give him a shock. It will take some time if YOU are invested and consistent. This is about YOU and not the dog.

 

Didn't read all the comments. I have a rescue friend that has 2 working SAR hounds. She uses the halti or gentle leader to keep one of the hounds under control. The only way to walk her and not be dragged is to keep her nose off the ground. That hound has insane drive. This lady has no desire to work on loose leash walking what not because the dog is a working dog.