Competition will depend on the breed in question. Certain breeds have a lot more competition in AKC and a Ch is thus much harder in AKC than UKC. Some breeds are only UKC accepted though so a UKC Ch means a lot there.

Also, UKC has grand champions, too. I have only ever been to one UKC show and I have to admit, I enjoyed it more than an AKC show. Much less formal.

 

Competition will depend on the breed in question. Certain breeds have a lot more competition in AKC and a Ch is thus much harder in AKC than UKC. Some breeds are only UKC accepted though so a UKC Ch means a lot there.

Also, UKC has grand champions, too. I have only ever been to one UKC show and I have to admit, I enjoyed it more than an AKC show. Much less formal.

I was amazed at how "informal" the Seiger show seemed (for GSD's). People were "showing" conformation in baseball caps and swish pants (my kind of get up, I don't do heels!) They also critiqued the dogs (in conformation and working events), which I think would be beneficial in AKC events, too.

 

as far as im concerned...UKC all the way. less formal, more friendly, more focused on the working/performance aspect and if you are talking pit bull type dogs...UKC confo stays truer to the breed type than AKC does.

 

I've heard the same. It's hearsay because I've never attended a UKC show/trial and can't seem to find any info on the UKC site of events in my area (either that or there aren't any!) I have had people who show both say that UKC isn't exactly less "stringent", but there is a lot more camaraderie between exhibitors (which has been my experience with smaller, rinky-dink type AKC events. Seems the blood and guts starts at higher levels, which has been my limited experience in the horse world as well).

 

One thing to keep in mind, Jenny (in case you weren't aware) is that the Germans do not have the same time constraints in judging dogs as AKC does. AKC allows a judge (I believe) 3 minutes per dog in the class. Three minutes to evaluate the dog's gait.

I'm sure you noticed that at the SS the dogs were kept moving, and moving, and moving.

They're allowed to do that. The AKCers are not.

In regards to UKC conf....I wouldn't touch 98% of the UKC GSD champions. The 2% I would take are really nicely structured working lines and some nice AKC champions.

But the majority of UKC GSDs I see that finish (and I am NOT talking about whites, only the colored dogs) are pets.

 

Yea AKC events vary..... Some smaller shows can be a ton of fun. The show I am going to in a couple weeks is that way. Small show. Good time.

Some of the big shows feel a bit like a war zone. The shows in Brooksville Florida in January are that way. 10 days of dog shows in one location. Majors can be had in many breeds. Even on the weekdays. Several clubs (ours does) hold their Regional Specialties at these events. You get dogs from all over the country and lots of them. With the top handlers and the hot dogs.

You see some intense folks and some owner handlers get intimidated.

Me I love it. I am very competitive. The little six month old bitch I am handling is going to finish there next January. Hopefully at the specialty. That is my plan anyway.

Good luck at the show The big shows have always intimidated me, I'm not a very competitive person if it's something I went into for fun (business competition is another story )

One thing to keep in mind, Jenny (in case you weren't aware) is that the Germans do not have the same time constraints in judging dogs as AKC does. AKC allows a judge (I believe) 3 minutes per dog in the class. Three minutes to evaluate the dog's gait.

I'm sure you noticed that at the SS the dogs were kept moving, and moving, and moving.

They're allowed to do that. The AKCers are not.

In regards to UKC conf....I wouldn't touch 98% of the UKC GSD champions. The 2% I would take are really nicely structured working lines and some nice AKC champions.

But the majority of UKC GSDs I see that finish (and I am NOT talking about whites, only the colored dogs) are pets.

I've had limited experience with both kinds of shows, but I did read that for the germans in the gaiting ring, they encourage spectators to clap, whistle, and keep the dogs interest going. I'm not sure how long they keep going for, but I've seen dogs with great stamina and a nice side gait that barely look warmed up when the handlers switch out
If the UKC CH's are the dogs featured on the "half dog half frog" youtube video, I will agree with you

 

If the UKC CH's are the dogs featured on the "half dog half frog" youtube video, I will agree with you

Those are German dogs and AKC dogs. That video is a load of crap Just saying, as somebody that has, has had, and will have AKC show lines that aren't cripples (Justin, anybody?).

 

I thought they looked more german showline extreme than amline? There are too many GSD lines out there (just when you think you've got your lines straight... )
A friend of mine has 2 american showline GSD's...gorgeous, not cripples, not extreme, but nicely angulated and have a very pretty sidegait with tons of stamina I wish I had a video of the dogs moving, I could watch them trot forever! The breeder that has Auz's dad has an amline retired show dog (bi-color). I have never in my life seen a dog move as gorgeous as this dog does, he floats!

 

UKC is much more enjoyable than AKC. I have been showing in AKC for over 35 years. UKC for over 7 years. I much prefer the UKC. Competition in my breed for both venues is the same. It is much easier to get a UKC champion title but the Grand Champion is difficult as you must have at least 3 champions competing and you must win the champion class five times. This takes much longer than a weekend to achieve. As for quality in the GSD, I have seen some really exceptional dogs in UKC and crap in AKC that are champions. It all depends on the dog. Try a UKC event then try an AKC one. Then you will know just how special UKC really is.

 

http://www.newhopeshepherds.com/JacobRBIS10-08.jpg <--this is not a quality dog

http://www.freewebs.com/kleinenhain/FrescaUKC-CH.jpg <--this is better...ish

Will the AKC or UKC withhold titles/ribbons?

AKC will and does.

If undershot isn't a DQ in Paps, and he has no other disqualifying faults, the judge would (should) withhold on your dog for "lack of merit".

BTW, you don't get points just for winning your class (just so you know...if you could, the GSDs would finish soooooo much faster).

 

BTW, you don't get points just for winning your class (just so you know...if you could, the GSDs would finish soooooo much faster).

Yes, definitely! Beau never got a point for winning his class. Paps are competitive in the AKC (not so much UKC from my experience). You must beat x amount of dogs for points. For us it was a lot of dogs to win any points, especially majors.

 

God, I remember Beau's Trek for the Championship.

Good stories man, good stories.

How old is he now?

 

I was actually looking at toy breeds and I have to say, I wouldn't touch most of the UKC Ch. toy breeds. I'm sure there are quality dogs that I didn't see but most of them looked "iffy." I felt like some dogs shown would never ever have gotten their Ch. in the AKC.

 

In Afghans a few years back 8 of the top ten dogs in breed for UKC were owned and bred by the same person!!!! It's gotten better in recent years, but the quality of the competion is still lacking.

 

Most of the toy dogs who are showing both AKC and UKC in my area do well at both venues. I do not know what toy dogs you have seen. What area and shows did you attend? As far as the Afghans go. The #2 UKC afghan is a multiple Best in Show winning female. Her littermates at this moment are taking the AKC specialties by storm. Many years of hard work and proper breeding has produced these dogs. They are NOT backyard bred animals. The same can be said for the Toy dogs as well. As I personally know many of the owners/breeders of these dogs as well as my own. They are not out of buffy and lady next door. Many of them are by imported European stock. Many years of dedicated hard work in campaigning, health testing, and breeding only the best dogs to the best dogs. I find more ill bred dogs showing in AKC because they cant win anywhere else. They pay a well known handler to show the dog, because at UKC handlers arent allowed. And their dog finishes its AKC championship. Though if they took said same dog to a UKC event it probably would get the ribbons withheld. For lack of quality. Which yes the judges do. Those who do the UKC events take it VERY seriously. The problem is that people run their mouths off without ever actually attending or taking the time to find out the facts. So those that have no clue about either registry will take their word and just do AKC. That is why I say go and see an event at both venues. Do some research into the dogs being shown in both. You will be surprised to see that some of the same dogs are being shown in both and doing quite well.

 

A little off topic here, but if you have a minute, would you mind posting a link or two to some top quality GSDs?

Sure

This is a BEAUTIFUL UKC Gr. Ch bitch that would never finish in AKC....but I love her. Love her style, her breed type, her angles. I'd just want "more head" and more bone. But she's versatile!

UKC GR. CH/Int'l CH Samuri's Pixel Perfect, TC, RN, CD, NA, NAJ, OA, HIC OFA CHIC
http://www.freewebs.com/samurispixelperfect

A working line bitch, Upsy von der Salztal-Hohe:
http://www.workinggermanshepherd.com/upsy.htm

German Showline Danny Wilhendorf:
http://web.mac.com/teamnummerein/Wilhendorf/danny_files/va3_male2 copy.jpg

 

Honestly? Any GSD can probably be finished as a Champion in the UKC show ring. Trent could be... and while it's great GSDs of all lines will be put up, depending on the judge, the title in itself isn't worth much, when it comes to German Shepherds. There are UKC Gr. Champions that look to me like German Shepherd mixes, and while consistency isn't necessarily a good thing (ex: American show lines at a National level), the judges could definitely do better when it comes to awarding points.

But, of course, there are some gorgeous UKC Ch. GSDs as well... though just about all of them, like Xeph said, would never make it anywhere in the AKC ring, whether it's lines, angulation (or lack thereof), etc.

However, the atmosphere in the UKC show ring is definitely a lot friendlier, I've heard. People are helpful and encouraging, while those in the AKC can be extremely competitive, and certainly "above everyone else" with their attitude. Also, no professional handlers allowed in the UKC!

Xeph, I like that Samuri bitch!! And looking at her pictures, I can see more examples of a nice, balanced American show line GSD stacked to appear on the "extreme" side...

BTW, is the AKC going to have Grand Champions as well in the future, or was that just a rumor? I thought I read about that somewhere...

 

Thanks Xeph. I can definitely see the difference. I've never been a GSD person, even though on paper it sounds like I should love them. Some of the dogs from that working line may have just changed my mind. Upsy is gorgeous, though my preference wouldn't be for an all black dog.

 

Xeph, I like that Samuri bitch!!

Me too! I've admired Ms Pixel for awhile (and that name is adorable!)

And looking at her pictures, I can see more examples of a nice, balanced American show line GSD stacked to appear on the "extreme" side...

You're getting it! Not all dogs stacked in an extreme manner are actually overdone! Amazing what you can do with a stack.

Some of the dogs from that working line may have just changed my mind.

How about this guy?

though just about all of them, like Xeph said, would never make it anywhere in the AKC ring

Or CanKC

There are some NICE Canadian dogs, but due to the point system in Canada, it is easier to finish a dog there than in America.

I'm just providing examples, and I am NOT saying that all AKC champions are better (some of them are complete crap), the overall quality of GSDs I would find at an AKC All Breed compared to a UKC All breed is going to be better.

 

How about this guy?

That's another beautiful dog, but I prefer Upsy's shape. To my eye, the one you just posted looks a little bulkier, and Upsy looks a bit more streamlined. Maybe I'm trying to transfer characteristics I like in other breeds onto GSDs, but I like the thinner, smaller boned dogs best.

 

The one I posted is mine xD It's Strauss, so I'm biased. But GSDs DEFINITELY should not be thin and small boned! Upsy is more "streamlined" because she's a she, and Strauss is a he! LOL!

 

I wondered if it was a male/female thing... I almost put it in my last post. I guess I should have said relatively small and thin boned, or small and thin boned for a GSD. Either way, based on my limited GSD knowledge, Strauss is a beautiful dog. Based on appearance, I'd take him over any of the show dogs you posted except maybe Upsy. I like Upsy's shape, and Strauss's coat. So, how much do you want for him? And are you gonna finish those french fries?

 

Just because the UKC "doesn't allow professional handlers" doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've overheard semi/professional handlers discussing how to get around that.

 

I've overheard semi/professional handlers discussing how to get around that.

It's not hard. All the pro has to do is sign his/her name on as an owner of the dog.

So, how much do you want for him?

I would take no less than a few billion dollars.

And are you gonna finish those french fries?

Always