Purina One isn't bad in general. I just prefer not to feed my dog Corn. I know that almost ALL Dalmatians have to eat Purina Proplan (the one with the Dal on the bag) because of their problem with stones.

That said, I wouldn't pay $50 for a bag of Purina when I can get a higher quality food for $40.

 

Where are you buying your food, Xeph?

Wal-mart sells 40# bags of Purina One for $28. Compare that to something like Solid Gold Barking at the Moon, which runs $67 for 33# at my local specialty petstore.

By saying "I can get a higher quality food for $40," you're illustrating the exact point I tried to make in my original post. The super premium petfood manufacturers have got you right where they want you: i.e. equating "gross" with "unhealthy" and anthromorphizing your dogs. You're wanting something that's your definition of higher quality, not empirically speaking higher in quality. If there's no difference in protein digestability between a bucket of chicken guts ground and cured into meal and mechanically de-boned all-white meat chicken, why pay the extra money? Answer: because as a person it makes you feel better, not because it's any healthier for your dog. Again, that's your right as a consumer and a pet owner, and I'm sure your dog appreciates your love and compassion.

 

I have learned in the 20 years I have worked in the pet industry that not all pet by products are created equally, and that some of the lower end pet foods have things in them that are severely detrimental to your pets health and life. I am not saying your pet's food is bad at all, I don't know, but research is a must for all pet owners. If the by products are made with organs and bone from healthy animals that we use meat from it is totally different then by products used from ill or euthanized animals.

 

I feed my dogs raw (and a higher end kibble sometimes) and my cat a higher quality urinary tract kibble and I wont switch.

Dog 1 (Harley) had itchy skin and chewed his fur switched him to raw grain free and it went away. (dog was tragically taken from us in OCT)

Dog 2 (Maggie) came to us at 5 months eating Iams puppy food. Switched her to raw that same day. My husband was allergic to her, itchy watery eyes and asthma. She needed to go to the groomers that week to have her anal glands expressed (it hasnt needed to be done again) My husbands allergies to her have gone and its been 1 year (although we just got a puppy and have been suplimenting both dogs with kibble and guess what...he has mild asthma when he comes home now)

Cat (max) 2 years old was eating purina cat food...at the vets last Nov with complete urinary blockage. $700 in vet bills later...he finished his vet food and I have been feeding higher quality food from the pet store and checking his Ph levels a few times a week and its been completely normal.

Dog 3 (Bella) just came to us a week and a half ago. She was eating purina puppy chow and had a Ph of over 8 (my strips only go up to 8) right away switched her to a good quality kibble (from the pet store) and started raw (she is now on 75% raw) and her PH is in normal range again and has been every time I have checked.



Thanks for your info but I will stick with my raw and high quality Kibble...My animals are the best proof for me.

 

Personally by-products are "unwanted" and unwanted pieces of meat are not cared for in the same manor as "premium" cuts of meat. It is not that I do not believe the internal organs of animals are bad for a dog, on the contrary it very well can be better (I have not studied this so I can't say for sure). Do you have information on how by-products are processed, and if it is in the same way as "human" food? I myself am disgusted with the thought of eating meat that has been pumped full of medicines, we are effect as much as our dogs on "premium" food. So if I can get a food that is processed the same way as "human" food, and it is at LEAST up to par for us, then I feel that is one step closer to a healthier dog.

I also do not agree with corn, it is something that even live stock isn't supposed to have. I would never give my horse corn, just because it can cause serious health problems. Also naturally wolves eating the stomach of their pray would not be eating corn, so it is completely foreign to their digestive system.

I see your point in that "by-products" are nutritious too, but it is low cost food, and industries will treat it as such.

 

Personally, I feed Kirkland (Costco's brand), which is $21.00 for 40lbs, and ranks as high or higher on the "dogfoodanalysis" system than most of the "premium" brands at twice or three times the price.

I agree that there's some food snobbishness and "gross=unhealthy" in dog-food discussions, and I understand that dogs and their big brothers, wolves, ate offal and thrived for millenia. But, there's a difference between the offal provided on a farm, and that which is swept up off the mass-slaughterhouse floor, along with god knows what else.

Bottom line, I look the analysis system, because it includes information that I feel is important, then take convenience and price into account. I've not yet found a food to beat the Kirkland combination of those three things.

 

I don't feed my dogs Solid Gold or Innova. #1 my dogs can't tolerate it. It is EXTREMELY rich and making the switch seems to be harder for older dogs (dogs not raised on it). I had extreme diarrhea (no bloody stools) and gas. #2 I can't afford it.

My dogs started out on ProPlan...their coats were absolute CRAP. Dry, brittle, dandruff, itching. My Shepherd has a bit of an allergy to wheat, so anything with wheat in it is immediately cut out.

Fish based diets my Shepherd refuses, he is also not a fan of chicken (unless fed raw), and I won't feed him beef. He and the Labrador currently eat a grain free venison based food (though I'm sure when I move the Lab will go back to getting crap).

I'd love to check out Kirkland for myself, but it doesn't seem to be available in my area.

 

Well, he is right about the allergies...

 

Kirkland is only found at Costco - it's their private label - and they only have Chicken, Rice & Vegetables, and Lamb, Rice, & Veggies. (The Lamb is $2.00 more, though.)

They also don't sell it on line, you have to go the the physical store, which is a bummer if you don't have one in your area!

Costco's brand is made by Diamond, so you could try to find that, but it can't be the same formula as Diamond's own label, because it ranks higher than Diamond does. I don't know what Diamond costs, though.

 

My vet said something similar when I took Charlie there on Saturday. He was having loose stools so my vet said that if I put him on something of a lower quality it probably wouldn't harm him and wouldn't make him live less. He was on Blue Buffalo and now I'm trying him on Eukanuba naturally wild. He seems to like it but I haven't seen stellar results yet. The vet also recommended Purina One. That made his skin itchy though.

 

i tend to equate.."contaminated" with unhealthy.

im a raw feeder and often feed what is known as byproducts. ill feed every piece of a deer save for the bladder and intestines. same with any other animal..but ive seen the place where the meat is butchered and packaged..i hired the butcher myself. i do not have that reassurance at all with what is known as low end kibble and i barely have assurance of that with the higher..at least by my anal retentive standards. "human grade" isnt about what part of the animal it is..its about the standards of cleanliness and sanitation used to butcher, prepare and package it...and the cleaner, the better.

 

My families now 11 year old dog who has been and still is in great condition (with the exception of arthritis) was fed Pedigree up until she was 9.5 years old and we never had any issues. Now that I'm back home she's eating a bit better. I like what the OP said though: if it works for your dog, keep feeding it.

 

Honest question: what are the "serious health problems" related to corn?

Corn can provide a high level of digestible complex carbohydrates, essential amino acids and important fatty acids, like linoleic acid. Corn gluten meal, an ingredient derided as "filler" by the uninformed, has in fact one of the higher protein concentrations (60%) of any item on a petfood label. And in food allergies among dogs, corn and rice have the exact same number of cases (about 2.4% of all allergies), with beef, chicken, lamb, fish, dairy and eggs continuing to be the leading food allergens.

As for the whole meat by-product stigma, most of it is anecdotal evidence, evidence that's hard to take seriously when pound-for-pound by-product meal actually has less ash and more protein than its whole-meat counterparts. Yes, it's probably best to avoid the foods with the more ambiguous ingredients like "meat" by-products, but can't we steer people to better dog foods without the ceaseless fearmongering? There isn't feces in commercial dog foods, and it's you, not the dog, who's grossed out by eating slaughterhouse scraps. Digestable protein is digestable protein, Kcals are Kcals, and more dogs thrive on "marginal" food than don't thrive.

I mean come on, does a petfood manufacturer have your pet's interest at heart or your interest when they use certain ingredients? One of the foods I tried had the following listed as ingredients 13-17: apples, blueberries, carrots, peas, and spinach. Translation: these ingredients are so far down the list they add no nutritive value whatsoever but are included anyway for suckers. If the "label police" is so eager to break down the meat percentages in pet food labels, then be consistent in your critiques. Call out these companies for hiding behind the word "holistic" and touting the benefits of one dehydrated blueberry and one-eighth of a teaspoon of spinach in a 40# bag of kibble. Call out these companies for feeding dogs multi-source protein kibbles--"made with fresh duck, turkey, chicken meal, lamb, and menhaden fish meal!!!"--when simpler, single-source proteins are almost always more digestable. Quick, name the only petfood manufacturer in the last five years to drastically change its ingredients without informing its customers or even its resellers: that would be Canidae.

If you have the money, BARF diets are great, and the time and effort companies like Natura Pet (Innova, EVO, California Natural, et al) put into their commercial feeds is commendable. But don't jump all over a fellow pet owner if he's feeding his forever friend something that works for him. Don't continue to perpetuate the myth that "icky" automatically means "bad" when it comes to pet food. And above all, if at the end of the month you look at your grocery bill and realize you're spending more money per pound feeding your dog than your children, know that this makes you insane, not altruistic.

Postscript: Now that I'm off my soapbox, I will add that I don't buy Iams for ethical reasons, as they conduct regular animal testing.

 

Re: Honest question: what are the "serious health problems" related to corn?

I mean come on, does a petfood manufacturer have your pet's interest at heart or your interest when they use certain ingredients? One of the foods I tried had the following listed as ingredients 13-17: apples, blueberries, carrots, peas, and spinach. Translation: these ingredients are so far down the list they add no nutritive value whatsoever but are included anyway for suckers

so i should feed my dogs pedigree which is preserved with BHA/BHT which is KNOWN to cause cancer? because ya know, its sooo far down on the list it probably doesnt matter.....

 

im saying that just because an ingredient is far down on the list doesnt mean it shouldnt play a role in what youre feeding.

 

But it does matter, because they are eating it EVERYDAY, eventually it will have an effect.

 

this is what i am saying

 

I just want to say that I do not agree with corn/wheat gluten being an ok protein. I believe that proteins from animals are more bioavailable to a dog. Dogs can survive on a lot of things, but I think they are more carnivorus than anything (based by their teeth, digestive tract, etc) and they should get ANIMAL proteins, not plant proteins. I think that is a cheap way into boosting the protein level of a food.


I think ultimately, a raw diet is best for dogs. We can't all do it for one reason or another, but thats why I choose a higher quality food and pay a little more for it. Even the lower quality foods are raising their prices these days and some foods are very close in price but far apart as far as quality.

 

i think that is a cheap way into boosting the protein level of a food.

...................bingo!

 

But it does matter, because they are eating it EVERYDAY, eventually it will have an effect.

So what you're saying is that there are concrete, scientific studies that confirm the cumulative effect of non-animal proteins on an animal--an animal FWIW that genetically split from wolves 75,000 to 135,000 years ago--and that a grain-free or BARF "ancestral" diet ensures that said animals will live longer and healthier lives? Yeah, right.

Just because a food is convenient doesn't make it evil. Dogs are great companions, but with all due respect to Temple Grandin, we really need to stop imposing our humanity on them.

 

Who's imposing their humanity on them? The person feeding a diet designed by a human, or a diet designed by a dog? Irrelevant argument. There is little proof backing up what you say, and little proof backing up what raw feeders say.

I have no scientific studies (neither do you). All I have is this.

Ollie, on whatever garbage he was on before I adopted him (he lived in terrible conditions)

 

The beef i have with grocery store pet food is not so much the by products but how they are extremely grain-heavy, and many contain fake colors, fake flavors, and even sugar. Ever looked at the ingredient list on the back of a pouch of moist n meaty. You will find high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, wheat flours, ethoxyquin. how could those possibly be good for a dog?

None of those things are ever going to end up in my dog's food dish.

 

I think that is a cheap way into boosting the protein level of a food.

Bingo!

Why does that comment merit a "bingo"? Just trying to inject a little bit of realism into the conversation, folks. If there's a cheap way to boost my dog's protein and an expensive way to do it, but neither is proven to be superior in terms of my dog's wellness, I'm not going to drop $50-$60 on a bag of kibble just to stick out my chest at the next ASPCA meeting.

 

Even if neither is proven to be better doesn't common sense say that a protein from meat would be better for our dogs than, say, corn?

 

Moist and Meaty

Ever looked at the ingredient list on the back of a pouch of moist n meaty. You will find high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, wheat flours, ethoxyquin. how could those possibly be good for a dog?

I agree most soft foods are garbage. HFCS and similar sugars have no place in dog food (no place in human foods either). That being said, cane molasses--used by Bill-Jac and National, just to name a couple--does have several nutritive advantages.

 

To Ollie, months after he was on raw fed diet:

Empirical scientific data? No, of course not.

But it's proof enough for me.

 

"I'm not going to drop $50-$60 on a bag of kibble just to stick out my chest at the next ASPCA meeting."

I get SO tired of reading that people only are feeding their dogs what they do for bragging rights...It is insulting to people that have done tons of research & are feeding their dogs what they think is good for them!...I am so over the dog food arguments...I switched to raw & am happy with it...No, i don't brag about it because people think that I am nuts for feeding "good meat" to my pack...I will answer questions about it when asked however.
I do keep an emergency kibble for if we travel or I run out of or forget to thaw meat...I feed Diamond Naturals in those situations which is cheaper than a lot of the brands that the o.p. mentioned & not full of cheap fillers & artificial preservatives, colors, & flavors.

 

I get SO tired of reading that people only are feeding their dogs what they do for bragging rights...It is insulting to people that have done tons of research & are feeding their dogs what they think is good for them!

This exactly. I don't feed my dogs what I do so I can brag about it, seriously who would I brag to? I researched for MONTHS before settling on a food. The results that occurred when I switched were enough proof for me that I had made the right choice. Just to mention a few, a dramatic reduction in shedding, no more dandruff, soft shiny coats, higher energy levels, smaller poops (which means the dog is actually digesting more of what their eating i.e. common sense if you are feeding the same amount and less is coming back out more is being used)

 

I get SO tired of reading that people only are feeding their dogs what they do for bragging rights...It is insulting to people that have done tons of research & are feeding their dogs what they think is good for them!

Amen to that. I feed my pup a kibble I researched, tried, and feel my dog does well on it. It has nothing to do with wanting to brag or to stick my chest out at a meeting.

Wow, RBark, those are some pretty amazing pics. Ollie looks so much better!

 

Amen to that. I feed my pup a kibble I researched, tried, and feel my dog does well on it. It has nothing to do with wanting to brag or to stick my chest out at a meeting.

I second this-I have found on this forum, that people are here to ask advise to what might be best for their dogs-people take it with a grain of salt, and compose their own opinions. If you think you know everything there is to know about food-more power to you-educate people on it then-don't preach to people that you know more then everyone else and start an argument about it.

 

I would love to feed Charlie the best of what is out there as long as it is within my budget. I'm not a dog nutrition expert but I try to make sure that there is some sort of meat as one of the first ingredients and no corn. I also try to research what kinds of foods are best for certain breeds but I'm really not too sure about what dogs need to eat.

My last dog, Minnie, ate pedigree for all of her life and was a happy healthy dog. She lived 2 1/2 years longer than the vet thought she did and eventually died of liver failure/ cancer at 14 1/2 years. i still miss her, I will miss her forever, and I always wonder if she would have lived longer if she ate better.

 

Dogs and wolves are not that "genetically split" considering their ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring. As opposed for example to the horse and donkey which produce the rarely fertile mule. Yet those animals still go for the same diet...

As for the offal etc not being "human grade"-- its all about processing. I have eaten freshly slaughtered sheep lung, heart and intestines. I've eaten ants, silk worm larvae, congealed blood soup, chicken ass (yep, deep fried chicken anus), and other lovely things. But none of that was swept up off the floor of a slaughterhouse and mixed with chemicals.

 

Dogs and wolves are not that "genetically split" considering their ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring. As opposed for example to the horse and donkey which produce the rarely fertile mule. Yet those animals still go for the same diet...

totally Agree