"Killing" her toys is a perfectly normal and natural activity. You shouldn't intevene because this is a good outlet for play and using up energy. It is not a sign of aggression, it is just how uppies play. Most people on this forum, including me, do not subscribe to the idea of establishing dominance and holding a puppy on it's back. It only scares and confuses them IMO. I have a 5 month old JRT female and have never felt the need to roll her on her back and hold her there to prove my dominance. I am bigger, stronger, and control her food, when she goes outside, when she is the crate, etc so I assume she has a pretty good idea that I am in control.

Lola was pretty bad about baring her teeth and growling at us when she was younger. I just picked her up, looked her in the eyes, firmly told her "no", and put her down. That has almost completely taken care of the problem. She still does it occasionally to my 10 year old son but he is not consistent with the plan and tends to yell at her and get angry.

The best way to train her to leave something alone is to give her a treat or another toy in exchange for what you don't want her to have. Also work on training a "leave it" or "drop it" command. That is still a work in progress for Lola but she listens 75% of the time. When training give a treat every other or every 3rd time that she follows your command. It takes a while for them to listen without treats so you must slowly lessen how often they get treats.

Lola is my 2nd JRT and my other one lived to be 14 years old so I have many years experience owning one. They can be a handful but respond best to a firm, loving approach. They make excellent pets if they are treated with respect. I would highly suggest reading Ian Dunbar's books on raising puppies. I don't think your puppy is aggressive I just think she is a puppy who needs some shaping and Ian Dunbar gives excellent advice on that.

Good luck with the puppy.

 

Thank you so much for your info!!! It really helps to know you have had similar experiences with your Jack. The growling and baring teeth makes us a little worried. My wife and I plan on having a baby within the next year or so and don't want to have any serious issues with aggression. I will definitely take note on the playing. We are practicing NILIF and will continue to do so. When she starts to chew carpet or anything else, we give her a firm "no" or "no bite" and replace it with her suitable toy. I'm starting the every other treat while training and will continue to lessen the treats slowly. I think getting her outside for more exercise and other dog interaction will help as well. Thanks for your help!

 

That's a Jack Russel for you.
Make sure you know what breed you are getting yourself into before you get one and know what comes naturally to it through instinct.

 

Yeah we did a lot of research on the breed before we got her. I know all breeds have certain common traits that come naturally. I also know not every dog in a breed is the same. You can have one Jack Russell that is very assertive and dominant, and another jack that is very calm and submissive (although rare) We just got a very assertive one!

 

I totally agree with kathy. The dominance theory is outdated, has been proven to have many flaws and is not subscribed to by many here. As for being her "pack leaders": your puppy knows you are not a dog. She also knows that you have ALL the resources that she wants. You hold the food, shelter, everything. You don't NEED to show you are in charge.

Really, when humans have to act like they think a dog would, by holding a dog on it's back (pinning) the dog doesn't see that as you showing your dominance. The dog sees that as you being a bully. And, it may eventually lead to that puppy thinking she needs to defend herself. Right now she may be getting up and acting like nothing happened because she wants to forget that someone she is supposed to trust just held her down and scared her so much that she felt she needed to snarl to protect herself.

In a true wild pack (which is rare, as how many dogs in the wild do we see now a days?) a dog never flips another dog down on it's back (pinning) due to dominance. The other dog (the less dominant one) will flip down on it's own to show submission. Dogs sometimes play and wrestle, and pin each other in play, but actually pinning one down for dominance purposes, it's not done. It's also not done with wolves, either. A submissive wolf will flop down on their own to show submission. The only time a dog or wolf usually pins another one purposely (not in play) is to kill it in a fight.

As for the playing, I agree, let her play. I have a mini dachshund who is the least dominant dog you could find. A real cuddle bug, this one. But, when he's playing, he will shake and wrestle with is soft squirrel toys. He looks crazy with his big ears flopping back and forth as he shakes the toy. But, he's playing, and he's using up some energy, and he's having fun.

As for only responding with treats, you have an infant dog. She's still so very young. Treats are very helpful when first teaching a dog/puppy. IMO, you've had her a month. You are still in the treat stage. When she is totally consistent in her ability (showing that she truly understands a command in every setting) then you can fade treats, only give them spontaneously. It helps if you don't actually let her see whether you have the treats or not. Start putting the treats on a counter or table near where you are training. Use a marker word, like "yes!" when she does what you ask. Then, walk over and get a treat for her.

My overall advice would be, as kathy suggested, look into Ian Dunbar's methods. Also, "The Other End of the Leash" is a great book by Patricia McConnell. Ditch the dominance theory.

 

Also great advice. Thanks! I should reiterate, she doesn't snarl while being dominated, she snarls when we grab or hold her while she's wanting to get at a toy or running around. It's more like a "Hey, let me the F**K go!" Like she's a spoiled brat that just wants her way. Should I just let her get at whatever she wants at any time?

Currently she is not protective over her food or chews. I test every once and awhile by taking her food or chew for a second, then giving it back and praising her for not reacting badly. Is this a bad thing to do?

As far as the dominating thing, I guess I will try relying on NILIF more. Controlling her food, toys affection etc... Lately, when getting really riled up and aggressive, I have been trying to get her to submit without physically turning her over or touching her, just by body language, sharp correction sounds and blocking her exit, until she sits and gives up (releases her fix on whatever has her attention). Then I release her and give her affection. Would this be better?

As for the play, there is a fine line she sometimes crosses from typical rough play with her toys, to trying to kill it. She gets pretty riled up and aggressive. If she does cross this line should I still let it slide?

When using treats, she responds almost perfectly to commands. Sit, lay down, stay for long periods of time, up to 40 seconds so far until I release her.

Thanks so much!

 

I agree with doxiemommy.
Nothing you've said sounds like negative behavior to me. But, alpha rolling and taking away food can actually cause these problems. Especially the alpha rolling (putting her on her back). Please, forget everything you've read about being dominant. She's not trying to be the boss, nor is she being agressive. And as mentioned, trying to 'kill' her toys is normal. Let her do it. It's how they play. I highly recommmend the book doxie mentioned, 'The Other End of the Leash' by McConnell. It will explain the faults to the dominant theory.

 

Good to know! I will definitely buy those books as well. Which one do you guys recommend first?

 

I really like McConnell's book myself. You can usually find it at most library's.

 

I know he has a bunch. The Other End Of The Leash, is this a good one to start off with?

 

I'd say so, yes. When I first read it, it was a real eye-opener and made a lot of sense. It's a good place to start IMO.

 

Awesome, thanks so much!

 

The term "aggressive" in this context means the dog that will attack with intent to cause injury, so you probably don't want to describe her like that just yet.

Her job is to kill her prey, and she won't mistake a human or dog as prey, it's just not in her nature. I wouldn't supress the terrier in her, it might come out in other areas.

Adult dogs know that children are children, and a well-mannered dog will treat them appropriately; either tolerating the pulling and rolling on, or removing themselves from the situation when they get annoyed. Puppies on the other hand don't distinguish between children and adults. I don't know what age that starts.

Don't get carried away with "showing her who's the boss." Dogs will know who's the boss, and anyway, she's still just a baby. Keep in mind that when you physically force a dog to comply, you are actually enabling her to *not* comply. I mean, the body complies only because you manipulate it, but the mind remains non-compliant. The verbal cue and blocking is the way to go. Let her obey out of love and respect, rather than fear and distrust.

I recommend Inside of a Dog (Alexandra Horowitz), an interesting discussion of how dogs perceive the world.

 

Again, thanks for the insightful advice! So many knowledgeable people here.

 

By the way, here's a pic of the little monster...

A few weeks ago.

 

That's the killer rascal, Oh my. I think an e-collar is next step.

 

A bowl full of puppy -- nice photography.

 

Sounds like a normal healthy terrier pup. A lot of pups act that way but terriers tend to "go to eleven" more (and more quickly) than most. I don't have as much problem with the dominance thing as some other people, but you have to work up to various types of handling. Grabbing a pup when she's focused on play (play is extremely serious business for some pups) can have unpleasant consequences. If you screw it up because you don't like being mauled, you can teach the pup that violent aggression is a viable strategy for achieving goals. A JRT can be counted upon to figure that out PDQ.

There's a better way to go about things and brawling with your puppy don't make no sense at all.

PS: I want that puppy!

 

That is one darn cute puppy!

 

Let me preface this with, I am a JRT breeder, I have been on the BOD for the JRT club of Canada, my hubby is a judge for the JRTCC. I work with rescue JRTs.
Trust me your JRT is perfectly normal....

Hi everyone, hoping I can get some helpful advice. We have a 13 week old female Jack Russell Terrier puppy. We've had her for a little over a month now. She is crazy smart and I have started the training process already. She knows how to sit, lay down and stay pretty well. She is very high energy as all Jack's are. We try to exercise her as much as possible. She doesn't have all her shots yet so we haven't taken her outside per our vet's instructions. We are diligent and assertive owners and don't let her get away with anything. I have two questions.

I would find ways to socialize your puppy!!! The small chance of disease is much less of a threat to her life than being unsocalized! First off read the bolded part and imagine you were saying that about a one year old child. See how strange it sounds? She is a puppy. One of the worst things you can do is be harsh, over correct or be too rigid. I strongly suggest you relax and let her be a puppy.

1. She is a VERY dominant female. When we first got her, she didn't like being on her back at all. I knew it was a sign of dominance.

Wrong a million times wrong. She is a baby, she is not being dominant. A dog not wanting to be on their back has NOTHING to do with dominance or behaviour problems. My super sweet great with everyone stud does not like being on his back. On the other hand my snarky super assertive bitch on the other hand couldn't care less. Sounds more like she lacks confidence in you if anything.

We are very loving and affectionate with her, but also are diligent about showing our dominance.

Keep the loving, ditch the dominance. Almost every JRT that has come to me though the rescue with severe bite histories has come from homes where the people are very concered about being 'dominant' (which is silly.. you control the food, you pay the mortgage by definition you ARE dominant)

She gets snappy and aggressive when playing sometimes. She'll "kill" her toys (shakes them aggressively while growling)

Welcome to terrier ownership. Perfectly normal terrier behaviour. It would be like getting a herding dog and then being surprised it likes herding.... Oh and play biting etc while not socially acceptable with people is very normal puppy behaviour and has nothing to do with trying to dominate you.

we discourage this as much as possible. If we pick her up or hold her back while she's focused on playing or getting to something, she'll sometimes snarl and bar her teeth for a second, like, "let me go!". We always correct her by putting her on her back and getting her to submit, firm and assertive.

Basically you are teaching her you are nasty and not to be trusted. Why not simply train her how you want her to behave vs 'attacking' her? Seems a little unfair does it not? How can she know how you want her to play with you if all you ever do is make death threats? (that is what a forced alpha roll is, a death threat.. I would bear my teeth at you too!!)

But once she gives up and submits and we let her go, she gets up and continues playing like it never happened. She continues to do this and I'm wondering if she's even learning that we are the pack leaders. Is this normal behavior for such a young puppy? Will this ever change? Our last dog was very submissive and super sweet so this is a big change for us.

If you start to act like leaders she might take you for one. Right now you are sending her mixed signals and training her not to trust you. She is a perfectly normal JRT puppy. I am pleased to say she seems quite good if she forgives you instantly after you let her up. I have had a few I imagine wouldn't

2. I know it takes repetition and time, but she listens really well when I have treats. She sits, comes, lays down and stays just fine. When I don't have treats, it's a different story. She sees that I am empty handed and doesn't listen. I always praise her besides the treats. Will this just take time and repetition before she listens without treats?

Make sure you are not luring. When you lure the treat becomes part of the cue and the dog then needs to see the treat to get the cue. Put the food on counter and then say sit. IF she sits then hand the treat. Read up on clicker training, its awesome!

You need to teach her to want to co operate with you. Sure all that dominance and intimidating dogs can work (if you like the suppressed dog) with some dogs, but JRTs are bred to meet aggression with aggression. Stop being so aggressive in your approach to your puppy. Think more benign dictator vs drill Sargent. You NEED to teach her that co operating is always pleasant, that people are to be trusted and that she never needs to defend herself from you.

I suggest you read this:http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance statement.pdf

If you want a longer read I wrote this: http://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/comments/ewcdd warning its looong lol.

 

Forget about the whole dominance theory, pretty please! Keep her mind and body exercised and continue to control all resources like food, toys, etc. All of this is yours and given by you, that is enough. But you might want to implement 'Leading the Dance' especially the part about the umbilical cord (see link http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/dance.html)

 

Dekka,

all great information, thank you for such a thorough response! I have read so many conflicting views over the last month, it's been hard to know what is good and what is bad. I feel we have been doing a lot of the right things mentioned, but are also doing some of the wrong things, which is counteracting the good!

I have her sit and wait before bringing her onto the couch, before eating etc... I never call her to punish her, I make coming to me a pleasant experience with praise, and a treat if I have one handy. Never thought about luring her to obey, good point! There is a dog group that meets at the park by our house with a lot of stable dogs, we plan on taking her to socialize once her shots are finished. (maybe we'll take her sooner)

So what should we do, if anything, when she snarls and bars her teeth? She mainly does it when we hold her and she wants to get to something? Not going to make her submit anymore.

 

So what should we do, if anything, when she snarls and bars her teeth? She mainly does it when we hold her and she wants to get to something? Not going to make her submit anymore.

It may sound (probably will, but not intended to be) insulting, but the trick to building a well trained, well socialized, well behaved dog is to be...wait for it...smarter than the dog. That's not near as easy as it sounds because we are always reacting to an irrepressible pup's rampaging behavior. That ends up being like singing along to a song to which you don't know the words. You'll always be two beats behind the band.

Be proactive; not reactive. You need to get out in front of the pup and direct the play. Always have two or three activities on deck 'cause a pup that young has the attention span of a gnat--unless she is destroying something. Work on getting her accustomed to being touched on every part of her body. Do this when her energy levels are ebbing. Even bad puppies need to be cuddled. If you see a momentary flash of attentiveness, seize it and teach her something useful.

This is not easy, but it's probably no harder than trying to keep up with her and keeping her out of mischief. If dog training were easy, everybody would have a well trained dog.

And if you don't already have one, get a crate. They are great for those times when you are absolutely exhausted and your pup is rarin' to start something.

 

Why do you need to pick the dog up? I know they're out there somewhere, but I have never meet a dog that liked being picked up and held off the ground. I imagine that it's frustrating to have someone else so in control of your body. It is likely that frustration that causes the dog to growl at you. Regardless of the motivation, a growl indicates that the dog is not comfortable with what you're doing. If it were me, I would want to honor that discomfort by leaving the dog on the ground as much as possible. I would probably also work on counter conditioning. I would get the best treat ever before picking up the puppy. As I held the pup, I would let it eat the awesome treat. When the dog was done eating, I would put it down. Every few days, I would increase the amount of time I was holding the dog (feeding treats) all the while. If at any point the dog seemed uncomfortable, I would drop the length of time back down to the last comfortable duration.

 

ack I just typed out a long thing.. and lost it.

Best thing to do is to ignore her. Hold her and ignore her till she calms down, then put her down.

I had written about Kat, a dog I lost this summer whom I had bred. She had been the scariest puppy I have ever had, sharp, assertive, smart, and drive out the wazoo. By making sure her 'bad' behaviours never worked for her and never correcting her she grew up into a delightful JRT. One of the best JRTs I have ever met hands down. I miss her every day.

ETA: I fully support getting your puppy used to being picked up. Its an important life skill for a JRT master. In fact most of mine know a jump into arms cue. It can be very handy!

(then again all my dogs except my son's BC) quite enjoy being held.

 

Will do Dekka. She likes being picked up and held 99% of the time, just not when she's in play mode.

We lost our 2 year old terrier mix awhile back, seriously the hardest thing we've ever gone through. She was an extremely smart, extremely well trained little cuddle bug. A complete opposite to Lucy, she was very submissive and naturally wanted to obey and please. We didn't face these types of challenges with her. It is just difficult not to compare and be alarmed by Lucy's differences. It's been an emotional and rough road so far, but I feel a lot more confident about things after all your help. We are determined to raise another wonderful stable terrier.

Thanks so much everyone for all the info, it is EXTREMELY appreciated.

 

Ian Dunbar - Two free books: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

 

She is an absolutely adorable puppy!