Ok so i have seen many dogs (large-breeds mostly such as pitbulls and argentino) with cutten ears. Why do the owners do that? Some guys told me that they look like batman and they have a more aggresive look. But i think thats its not natural. Does that affect the dog's hearing level or something like that? I have a puppy and a guy told me to cut his ears but i dont like it, i want him to be normal. So whats your overall opinion about this?
Psycho07
It's personal preference mainly, combined with some tradition- commonly referred to as cropping.
Unless you're planning on showing your dog, no need to have it done unless you want to.
Unless you're planning on showing your dog, no need to have it done unless you want to.
Huh. I didn't know it was illegal in Europe. How do they reconcile the legality vs. breed standards, then? Because cropped ears ARE considered standard for some breeds... How does that work?
Because...
1. Tradition
2. They just like the way it looks
3. They believe it has a function for the dog's line of work (which can include making a dog look more menacing)
1. Tradition
2. They just like the way it looks
3. They believe it has a function for the dog's line of work (which can include making a dog look more menacing)
Well. I can see this thread devolving into an argument really quickly, but hopefully it doesn't go there.
So, there are a few reasons that people "cut" (the proper term is "crop") their dogs.
There are some breeds who were traditionally cropped so that their ears did not get shredded to pieces when they were hunting game or being used to fight large predators. A cropped ear is far less likely to be injured and in previous centuries, before antibiotics, infections in torn up ears were often deadly.
In modern times, very few dogs are being used to perform their original purpose, therefore cropping for function has become unnecessary. Many people still do it for traditional purposes, however.
The biggest reason to crop a non working dog these days is aesthetics. The Dane and Doberman crops in particular have evolved into an aesthetically pleasing long crop instead of a close to the head crop that was the tradition hundreds of years ago. The cropped look is favored (at least in Danes) heavily in the show ring. Breeding dogs who will be cropped also means that the breeder doesn't have to pay attention to ear set when choosing breeding stock.
There are invalid arguments for cropping to prevent ear infections. I have seen no proof that a cropped dog is less likely to get an ear infection than a natural earred dog. There are valid arguments for cropping to prevent ear hematomas (internal injuries in the ear that cause the ear to swell and fill with blood, sometimes requiring amputation to fix), which are not common, but not rare, in Danes.
Like the other elective procedures people perform (docking, removing dew claws, spaying and neutering), cropping is a choice based on personal preference.
So, there are a few reasons that people "cut" (the proper term is "crop") their dogs.
There are some breeds who were traditionally cropped so that their ears did not get shredded to pieces when they were hunting game or being used to fight large predators. A cropped ear is far less likely to be injured and in previous centuries, before antibiotics, infections in torn up ears were often deadly.
In modern times, very few dogs are being used to perform their original purpose, therefore cropping for function has become unnecessary. Many people still do it for traditional purposes, however.
The biggest reason to crop a non working dog these days is aesthetics. The Dane and Doberman crops in particular have evolved into an aesthetically pleasing long crop instead of a close to the head crop that was the tradition hundreds of years ago. The cropped look is favored (at least in Danes) heavily in the show ring. Breeding dogs who will be cropped also means that the breeder doesn't have to pay attention to ear set when choosing breeding stock.
There are invalid arguments for cropping to prevent ear infections. I have seen no proof that a cropped dog is less likely to get an ear infection than a natural earred dog. There are valid arguments for cropping to prevent ear hematomas (internal injuries in the ear that cause the ear to swell and fill with blood, sometimes requiring amputation to fix), which are not common, but not rare, in Danes.
Like the other elective procedures people perform (docking, removing dew claws, spaying and neutering), cropping is a choice based on personal preference.
I have a cropped dog. It's done for aesthetic reasons. I don't believe that there are any real functional benefits to crop a dog even for the majority of working dogs. No, it does not affect their hearing.
While it is banned in most European countries, you can have it done outside the banned countries, or simply import a pup with cropped ears.
Seen to many studies both ways on ear issues to comment and since I don't crop, believe it's a personal call.
In working dogs like Dogo which are used as hogdogs, I could see the argument for, on the injury issue.
Past that 99% of it is just a persons choice.
Seen to many studies both ways on ear issues to comment and since I don't crop, believe it's a personal call.
In working dogs like Dogo which are used as hogdogs, I could see the argument for, on the injury issue.
Past that 99% of it is just a persons choice.
Um, the vast majority of cropped dogs are nowhere close to a show ring. It's entirely legal in the US and people do it themselves all the time. Puppymill owners do it at 3 days, pit bull owners do it whenever---I'm not actually sure I've ever seen a pit bull whose crop was done by a vet---or at least I hope not because they all look terrible. I don't think making it illegal would increase the number of people doing it themselves.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying?
And insinuating that all puppy mill owners and Pit-type dog owners are in the same category is rather offensive. There are plenty of bully breeds out there with very nice crops that are done by professionals.
And insinuating that all puppy mill owners and Pit-type dog owners are in the same category is rather offensive. There are plenty of bully breeds out there with very nice crops that are done by professionals.
We do have a very lengthy thread on this that covered a variety of opinions is anyone can find it to link it here. My CO's and my future CO's will be ear cropped for both working and aesthetic. My CC is both and any future CC will be both aesthetic. There are 3 or 4 specialist vets in my area (driving) that crop.
The reason for the argument that making it undesirable in the show ring would make it die out isn't because the dogs themselves would be shown/not, but because it would change the public perception of what the dog is supposed to look like. That is the motivation behind most cropping. They want their dogs to look like what they think those cropped breeds are supposed to look like and it looks 'funny' to them when they're natural.
I have no ethical dog in this fight (pun intended). I think it's unnecessary, I can't really look at most cropped dogs and see 'part of an ear' which is unpleasant for me, but I don't think owners who do it are terrible people.
But the reasoning up there? Is what the reasoning for it is, not that the dogs themselves being unable to show matters. I'm just providing translation here, basically.
I have no ethical dog in this fight (pun intended). I think it's unnecessary, I can't really look at most cropped dogs and see 'part of an ear' which is unpleasant for me, but I don't think owners who do it are terrible people.
But the reasoning up there? Is what the reasoning for it is, not that the dogs themselves being unable to show matters. I'm just providing translation here, basically.
Yeah, I kind of thought of that later. If it's not accepted in the show ring, people get used to see ing them that way, then it's no longer what the breed is "supposed to" look like.
I was reading some Dobe forums to get some perspective on their beliefs, and, according to them, that would be the end of the world
.
Just throwing out to the OP definitely don't do it if it's illegal where you live! It should be done by a vet and since it's banned, no vets will do it.
Just in case that's getting lost in the other stuff. lol
Just in case that's getting lost in the other stuff. lol
We've been through this before. Some breeders, of small dogs especially, will cut their ears when the tails are done. I've heard of it being done in mini Schnauzers and Min Pins. If it's a short crop it works. If you see a 5-week old puppy at the flea market with healed ears, you know it wasn't done later. . .
This is old, just one I found real quick, but it's obviously not unheard of: http://www.auspet.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000793.html
Yes we have been through this before.... And you are still giving out WRONG information..
At three days old, there is NOTHING to cut on an ear... There is no cartilage, nothing... ESPECIALLY on small breeds... A lay person could not obtain tools small enough to do it with. You would be LUCKY if the ear on a three day old small breed was much bigger than your finger nail...
And you posted another forum with someone giving out mis information as your proof.
At three days old, there is NOTHING to cut on an ear... There is no cartilage, nothing... ESPECIALLY on small breeds... A lay person could not obtain tools small enough to do it with. You would be LUCKY if the ear on a three day old small breed was much bigger than your finger nail...
And you posted another forum with someone giving out mis information as your proof.
Wow that's crazy. I never knew that! How is it we haven't heard of hordes of strays in Europe? Are Europeans inherently more responsible with their animals or what?
Well I do know that any time I've been in Europe I've been jealous of the dog-friendliness of their cities. No one uses a leash, the dogs go everywhere with everyone, and there never seems to be a problem with it! My kind of place!
Apparently it's recognized as a Thing by some breeders:
"Some breeders will attempt to crop a pup’s ears when they are only weeks old. They are not anesthetizing the pup, but only applying a local (Lidocaine) to the outside of the ear. This is not a painless procedure, and can lead to an unflattering and sometimes lop-sided look" http://www.toyschnauzersrus.com/Ear_Cropping.html
"Puppy mills frequently "crop" their puppies' ears when tails are docked, shortly after birth. These are truly multilated ears.....they don't always stand properly.....and are a groomer's nightmare" http://britmorschnauzers.com/ears.html
I know one lady who has 3 mini Schnauzers with cut ears. I don't know where she got them. I do know that the youngest, at least, had fully healed cut ears when she got him, and I don't believe she had the other 2 dogs' ears cut herself. They all look terrible---lop-sided and rough around the edges. I'll see if I can get a picture.
"Some breeders will attempt to crop a pup’s ears when they are only weeks old. They are not anesthetizing the pup, but only applying a local (Lidocaine) to the outside of the ear. This is not a painless procedure, and can lead to an unflattering and sometimes lop-sided look" http://www.toyschnauzersrus.com/Ear_Cropping.html
"Puppy mills frequently "crop" their puppies' ears when tails are docked, shortly after birth. These are truly multilated ears.....they don't always stand properly.....and are a groomer's nightmare" http://britmorschnauzers.com/ears.html
I know one lady who has 3 mini Schnauzers with cut ears. I don't know where she got them. I do know that the youngest, at least, had fully healed cut ears when she got him, and I don't believe she had the other 2 dogs' ears cut herself. They all look terrible---lop-sided and rough around the edges. I'll see if I can get a picture.
Huh, lookit this. An 8-week old pup, ears don't look fresh. "Ears, tail and dewclaws clipped by our family vet", though it doesn't say at what age: http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...by=rand&back=%2Fsearch%2F%3Fsubmit%3D1%26str%3DMiniature%2Bschnauzer%26page%3D1
9 weeks old, idk what they did to his ears (weird shape!) but they don't look fresh either: http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...by=rand&back=%2Fsearch%2F%3Fsubmit%3D1%26str%3DMiniature%2Bschnauzer%26page%3D1
This little dude is 12 weeks so maybe it was done at 7. . .do they fully heal in 5 weeks? http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...by=rand&back=%2Fsearch%2F%3Fsubmit%3D1%26str%3DMiniature%2Bschnauzer%26page%3D1
7 weeks, fully healed: http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...by=rand&back=%2Fsearch%2F%3Fsubmit%3D1%26str%3DMiniature%2Bschnauzer%26page%3D1
Oh, look at this! How old is that pup, maybe 3 weeks old? Cut ears: http://greenacresminischnauzers.sharepoint.com/Pages/PuppiesforSale.aspx
I really can't believe nobody else has seen this before?
9 weeks old, idk what they did to his ears (weird shape!) but they don't look fresh either: http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...by=rand&back=%2Fsearch%2F%3Fsubmit%3D1%26str%3DMiniature%2Bschnauzer%26page%3D1
This little dude is 12 weeks so maybe it was done at 7. . .do they fully heal in 5 weeks? http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...by=rand&back=%2Fsearch%2F%3Fsubmit%3D1%26str%3DMiniature%2Bschnauzer%26page%3D1
7 weeks, fully healed: http://www.puppyfind.com/view_listi...by=rand&back=%2Fsearch%2F%3Fsubmit%3D1%26str%3DMiniature%2Bschnauzer%26page%3D1
Oh, look at this! How old is that pup, maybe 3 weeks old? Cut ears: http://greenacresminischnauzers.sharepoint.com/Pages/PuppiesforSale.aspx
I really can't believe nobody else has seen this before?
You ever seen young Schnauzer pups? The ears stand and then they drop.... Not one of those puppies looks like cropped ears...
To the OP question, my 21yo nephew spent $1000 ($500 matched birthday money from overindulgent parents) to buy a bluenose staffy pup. He got the ears cropped, before the parents could stop him, and he was going to crop the tail, as well as leave the dog intact for breeding. His parents were able to stop him, and got the pup neutered. The ears were cropped too short and badly, otherwise messing up a sweet, beautiful dog. The nephew also let the dog grow to 110lbs. All this, b/c he wanted a dog that looked tough! Five years later, when the nephew had matured a little, he dropped the dog's weight to 90lbs, b/c he finally understood that a 110 lb dog could die before he's 10yo.
At first I didn't believe you, Willowy, but those links...WOW. I can't believe breeders are actually doing that to their neonates. Those ears are a disaster.
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