A good way to exacerbate the problem is to punish the dog for a behavior he's had a history of reinforcement for. There is nothing innately wrong with eating, so you're likely to make the problem worse, not better, by punishing him in the way that you are. So yes, you should be concerned about *your* behavior and how it will effect the dog's.

How do you change the behavior? Break the pattern leading up to it and teach the dog behaviors you prefer. Practice NILIF religiously.

If the dog is guarding the bowl, put the bowl away when it's not in use, and I would even say don't use it at all. A dog that is showing resource guarding should be hand fed a portion of his meal, and using his food to install behaviors you do want is ideal. If you want what's in his mouth, give him a reason to relinquish it. Trading often works, running out of the room sometimes works, coveting a squeaky toy might work too.

*I* wouldn't be too concerned if my puppy where showing this behavior around other puppies...that's what puppies do. But if he's showing these behaviors at the dog park, or around other adult dogs, he's in the wrong place. He needs to be in a place where you can control these other dogs and the resources around him. Otherwise, your opportunity to reward good behavior and extinguish bad behavior is minimized and will likely be ineffective.

 

Like I said he's not really doing it around me. And I don't think that I'm punishing him. I'm not, he usually get it right back. But he's learned not to growl at me. Also, he doesn't get anything for free, or without a reason for feeding him (like going to a new place or building positive association). I'm not concerned about his reaction to me, it's around other dogs. And it's only around food, never anything else.

 

Like I said he's not really doing it around me. And I don't think that I'm punishing him. I'm not, he usually get it right back.

Having his food taken away from him is a punishment. It is something aversive, something he wants to avoid -- a negative reinforcer. You don't want him to learn that his food can be snatched from him any time; that just teaches him that he DOES have to be defensive and guard his food.

 

The training is to teach the dog to give it up willing (not guard it) and not have to take it away by force. That sends the wrong message...he really does need to guard it before it can be taken away from him. Thats why we teach the Give or Drop It command along with the resource guarding training (hand feeding, putting your hands in the bowl, etc).
This is for human/dog. For dog/dog they don't understand the concept of sharing. I just feed them separately, pick up the food bowls when done and pile them in the sink.

 

You can teach him that you control food through NILIF. Taking food from your dog by surprise makes him defensive and suspicious, and ruins the trust he has in you. Start teaching "give it" using trades with better items, and use that each time you want to take food from him. I realise that he hasn't growled at you since you took his food, but a 4 month old puppy sees the world in a very different way from a 1 year old... and repeatedly taking food away from him as he starts to come into his own could end badly.

Avoid the dog park for now. It's not worth it for him to have a bad experience with another dog at such a young age. Dog parks are generally not a great source of socialisation for this reason... too uncontrolled, too many dogs that could give him a bad time. You only need one ignorant owner to bring his aggressive or obnoxious, untrained dog for your puppy to fear other canines.

 

That makes sense. I do practice NILF religiously. Also, is the dog park that big a deal? He's been going to day care 3 times a week so he's had alot of experience with other dogs (esp older dogs), all positive. The staff tells me every time that he is doing well and has never had a problem. I really think he'd do ok there.

 

I started when my puppies were small. I was always close to them when they ate, leaning over them and petting them and talking to them while they were eating, and putting my hands into their food. I took their bones and toys away from them, praised them and gave them right back. They got used to me being there. And I fed them side by side and stood guard and didn't tolerate any guarding of their food, nor did I tolerate any ventures to others' food bowls.

Now, I have 4 adult dogs (2 GSDs) who eat side by side and can all have bones in the same room or whatever and there's NEVER been a fight or even close to it. Never even a growl. They eat their treat and don't approach the other dogs.

So, I say it all depends on what you want. If you don't mind your dog growling and protecting his food or other belongings because "it's the natural thing to do", or crating him to feed him so that no incidents happen, or making sure other dogs or children don't approach him when he might be in a possessive mood over a toy, a bed or treat, then let him growl and guard his food and manage his environment by removing him from the situation in which he might behave possessively.

If you want him to not be possessive and defensive around food, you can do what I did. I know I'm going to be slammed for this post, but that's ok. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

I would start feeding your guy by hand and praising him. Then alternate by feeding him a kibble from your hand, then dropping one in his bowl. And alternate like that, always praising for good behavior. The next step I'd take is to feed him some by hand, some from his bowl, but move I'd my hand around his bowl, eventually touching it (you're still feeding him some by hand). I would just slowly get to the point that he's not uncomfortable at all having your hand around and even IN his bowl while he's eating. It associates your hand with having plenty of food.

I can take raw meat or a bone from any of their mouths and they just relinquish it. That's just the rules here. Once I had to dig in Cara's mouth to get a stuck rawhide out. I felt certain that she would allow me to and she did, of course. I STILL take things away from them while they're chewing and I always will.

 

I started when my puppies were small. I was always close to them when they ate, leaning over them and petting them and talking to them while they were eating, and putting my hands into their food. I took their bones and toys away from them, praised them and gave them right back. They got used to me being there. And I fed them side by side and stood guard and didn't tolerate any guarding of their food, nor did I tolerate any ventures to others' food bowls.

I strongly agree with the above,I have done this with every pup we had ever had and I have not ever had any dog in my home growl at us or guard EVER .I do not tolerate any growling from any animal in my house.The dogs will play growl when they are running around the yard but they have never ever growled at me of the family.I have had my girl's in labor delivering pups and never had a growl nothing.

I do not buy the whole they are in pain so they can growl or snap.Nope not me if I have to manually move a pup or check a cervix yes they are in pain it is labor/birth and guess what none of my girls has EVER snapped,growled ect.I have had dogs break legs and never growl or snap they just sit and watch me as I check them out before we go to the vet.

I must say it holds true for shelter and rescue dogs I know animals that have been abused neglected and they don't guard food,they don't snap or growl.I think too many people make too many excuses for there pets..But hey this is my opnion only

 

I agree with 4isCompany. I don't want to teach the dog that 'he doesn't have to worry about somebody taking his food away'. I want to teach him that I (and anyone else in my family) can take his food or anything else away anytime I please and it is not acceptable in any way to defend it.

Our dog does by the way start eating extremely fast if I walk by his bowl ....LOL, but I can take kibble right out of his mouth if I want without any protest.

I don't agree with people who let their dogs growl at them. Its a sign of disrespect - the tip of the iceberg IMHO.

Another litmus test: ever step on your dogs foot or tail accidentally? Dog should yelp and look at you pleadingly for forgiveness for whatever he did wrong. Instead, some dogs respond with a growl. My bet is the dogs that growl are the same ones who growl around their food bowl. Its a symptom of a lack of respect.

 

I don't agree with people who let their dogs growl at them. Its a sign of disrespect - the tip of the iceberg IMHO.

Another litmus test: ever step on your dogs foot or tail accidentally? Dog should yelp and look at you pleadingly for forgiveness for whatever he did wrong. Instead, some dogs respond with a growl. My bet is the dogs that growl are the same ones who growl around their food bowl. Its a symptom of a lack of respect.

Ummm no. Growling, fight, flight, flee are respondent behaviors (reflexes). They are conditioned to the stimulus. The dog doesn't have time to think whether he respects you or not, as far as he's concerned his life is in danger. This is natural behavior and necessary. A growl could be the one and only warning saving a child from being bitten. Plus, not all growls are equal. Some are elicited during play.

 

His life being in danger and his food being approached are two very different scenarios. I would expect a dog to growl if he felt (or thought or reflexed) that his life was in danger. Or to protect his people or property from intruders. But a known human or dog approaching his food bowl or being anywhere in the vicinity of his food, toys, bed or other items is NOT a life-threatening situation.

And of course all growls are not equal. But we're not talking about a play growl. We're talking about a protective growl, lip curled, aimed at known humans or animals for the purpose of intimidating, brought about by their approach upon "his" food or other belongings, such as his food bowl. Bringing other growl scenarios into the discussion does nothing but attempt to confuse the issue.

And it's not that we don't want the dog to growl. Growling is the symptom of guarding. It's that we don't want him to guard resources from known associates in the first place.

 

But a known human or dog approaching his food bowl or being anywhere in the vicinity of his food, toys, bed or other items is NOT a life-threatening situation.

Says who? I have news to all the dog guardians out there, the world doesn't revolve around your perspective of the world, we do not volunteer behavior for our dogs, nor do we communicate with growling like dogs do.

And of course all growls are not equal. But we're not talking about a play growl. We're talking about a protective growl, lip curled, aimed at known humans or animals for the purpose of intimidating, brought about by their approach upon "his" food or other belongings, such as his food bowl. Bringing other growl scenarios into the discussion does nothing but attempt to confuse the issue.

Confusion is good, it makes people think before acting. My dog often growls when I pick up her tug toy before she does. You could easily interpret this as guarding. You'd be wrong.

I'd rather someone think through a scenario than haphazardly call a behavior 'unacceptable'. Don't you agree? There is no good reason to label our dogs, or worse, define a protocol based on that label.

Frankly we should thank our dogs for growling when we approach. It's much better than a bite! We should thank them for acknowledging *we* need to work on this area.

This attitude that the dog is suppose to respect us, suppose to tolerate us, and is suppose to submit to our whims is ludicrous and an injustice to our dogs. My opinion only.

And it's not that we don't want the dog to growl. Growling is the symptom of guarding. It's that we don't want him to guard resources from known associates in the first place.

Of course, and we should be aware our treatment has nothing to do with growling behavior.

 

Quote:
Frankly we should thank our dogs for growling when we approach. It's much better than a bite! We should thank them for acknowledging *we* need to work on this area.

You go right on and thank your dog for growling at you. I'll pass. My dogs have NEVER growled at me except in play. Based on results, I guess I don't need any work in that area. My dogs are not about to bite me.


I have to side with Curb on this for the simple reason that the average dog owner always wants to punish any growling. Whether the growl is out of fear, pain or whatever, the owners don't know/care....all growls are considered 'bad'/'aggressive' and they take the approach of "Stop it!" or the dog will be put down instead of trying to understand the WHY.

 

I completely believe that you're quite a fan of confusion and obfuscation.

That’s your opinion and this one doesn’t belong on our forum.

You go right on and thank your dog for growling at you. I'll pass. My dogs have NEVER growled at me except in play. Based on results, I guess I don't need any work in that area. My dogs are not about to bite me.

Well, I don’t work exclusively with my own dog and I’ve been growled at by many completely normal dogs. Had I ‘passed’ on these dogs 1) I wouldn’t have learned how to modify the behavior and 2) they’d likely miss an important opportunity to learn differently. Bottom line; growling is normal (acceptable) dog behavior, and also modifiable.

I haven't said that our dogs are supposed to respect us, supposed to tolerate us or supposed to submit to our whims.

You haven’t but my response wasn’t made on yours.

But they will tolerate me, whether they're "supposed to" or not. That's the rule here. They will tolerate me taking things out of their mouths and messing with their food. I don't know where this "submit to our whims" thing came from. Nobody has suggested such.

Well, someone Did suggest such, but that’s not important. I’m not concerned with you and your dogs. I’m concerned with the notion that rules are inflexible…that ultimatums are attached when they are broken. You said it yourself…your dogs “will tolerate” you whether they’re “suppose to or not”. It begs the question, what is the ‘or else’ when they don’t? Why must we assume our rules are infallible?

Just recently, Mia tolerated me pulling large cactus spines out from under her tongue with pliers. Never a growl, never a snarl, even though she was in great pain. And I was 100% certain she wouldn't bite me. Call it injustice if you will, but I disagree. I'm the mom and they will tolerate me.

Who’s arguing what your responsibilities are? No one. I don’t quite understand why acceptance of the behavior excludes modifying it. Nor do I understand why the dog must tolerate it or else.

 

Bottom line; growling is normal (acceptable) dog behavior, and also modifiable.

I agree that growling is normal dog behavior. But so is pooping. Each person has to decide whether the behavior is acceptable under various circumstances. So, yes, it's normal and modifiable. We agree.

I’m concerned with the notion that rules are inflexible…that ultimatums are attached when they are broken.

I think you're making assumptions (if this is directed at me). My rules are NOT inflexible OR infallible, but you're right. Sometimes ultimatums (more accurately, consequences) are attached, and sometimes they are negative. It all depends. That's life. I sometimes use mild punishment with my dogs. That's the way I have decided to raise my dogs and what I do works spectacularly. I couldn't be more pleased with my dogs and our relationships. Notice I'm not even intimating that what you do with your dogs is wrong or bad, it's just different than my preferences.

You said it yourself…your dogs “will tolerate” you whether they’re “suppose to or not”. It begs the question, what is the ‘or else’ when they don’t?

If they didn't tolerate me, I would teach them to, as I have advised the OP to teach her dog to tolerate her hand in her dog's food (forgive me if the OP is male). It seems that you're assuming an awful lot here. This is not an "or else" situation. If my dogs didn't tolerate me, I would know that I had failed and would work to correct my approach or method. If it doesn't work, it's useless.

Nor do I understand why the dog must tolerate it or else.

Or else learn to tolerate it by my thoughtful, loving teaching and training. I'm sorry if you don't understand that.

 

Sorry guys. I wasn't trying to start a big argument on here with this.

Being the master, I don't believe that my dog should show any aggression towards me whatsoever. I do know the difference between his play growls and his aggressive growls. I believe the latter should never be shown towards another human ever (save for a burglar, a stranger that I haven;t approved to be in our space). I can accept that dog will sometimes not get along.

I think everyone has made good points. But I do think it has gotten a little out of hand.

 

Being the master, I don't believe that my dog should show any aggression towards me whatsoever.

Not even if it's a precursor to pain or lack of trust? If the dog didn't growl, how would you know? How else is the dog suppose to communicate this to you?

 

I think it's gotten out of hand, too. I sincerely apologize to iSaidNoSprinkles.

I really hate it when someone asks for advice and the thread gets hijacked over a parsing of words and nit picking. I think it's disrespectful to the OP. A discussion of philosophies should have its own thread and not take over someone's thread who's just trying to get some advice. I gave my opinion and it stands.

Again, I'm sorry for my part in the hijack.

 

I just wanted to add that Waldo's experience at the dog park today was amazing. Couldn't have gone better.

 

First off..yes you should be concerned about food aggression. Guarding behaviour is often rooted in anxiety (as in anxious about losing it) and can escalate to more severe and varied guarding behaviours.

As for taking an object away and then giving it back, well. Think about it this way..if you were eating an ice cream cone as a child and your parent came up and took it away from you, no explanation, waited to see how you reacted and then gave it back to you..how would you feel? Would you, the next time your parent approached, try to keep the cone away from them? Say no? Get upset and cry? Regardless of "getting it back" you are STILL taking it away with force and without input from the dog.

Now..before I get the whole "anthropomorphism" argument thrown at me, dogs brains and human brains are basically the same, dogs with a smaller cerebral cortex/frontal lobe. Emotions between the species are organized in the older part of the brain..so feelings CAN be related.

Food may not seem as a life or death situation..but in reality it IS. It is a primary need, food and water rank number ONE on Maslov's hierarchy of needs and lack of these two things means certain death.

Behaviourists recommend NILIF and hand feeding, putting up the dishes when the dog is done it's meal and working on a TRADE up for any item you may need to get from your dog. Working on training a "drop" command by trading (rewarding the release of the item/food) and working on a "leave it" to prevent them picking up unwanted items in the first place works well and does not set up an "I WIN you LOSE" situation.

I worked with a beagle mix that started out guarding his food and escalated to guarding the kitchen, the hallway, the bedroom etc and bit his owners repeatedly because they insisted on confrontation, equating the relinquishment of the item as respect. They found out the hard way that that wasn't the way it worked. We instituted NILIF, started working on trades, removed all high value items in the beginning and got a DAP diffuser to reduce anxiety. I gave them step by step things to do if he managed to get something or be on the couch (which he guarded) without forcing him off (and causing a bite). Six months later, no bites, the dog is happy to hang out on the living room rug, stays outside the kitchen while food is being prepared and sleeps happily in his crate. He is not "cured" of the behaviour and likely never will be (8 years of confrontation and practicing of the behaviour takes a long time to overcome). If you deal with this NOW by taking away his "need" to guard by reducing his anxiety about it you will not see the kind of escalation this client experienced. On this subject I highly recommend the book "MINE" by Jean Donaldson.

As for the growling. I personally never recommend punishing a growl. EVER. The reasoning behind this is if I take away this very first, important form of communication and do not respect this communication it will extinguish the behaviour completely, regardless of situation. The dog doesn't learn "now it's okay to growl" and "now it's not"..they just stop it. Period. This is a dangerous thing. This doesn't mean you don't work to figure out what the growl is about, is it pain, discomfort, fear or guarding behaviour and then working on desensitizing the dog to what it is bothered by. A dog that has had it's growl taken away skips right to the next step..no warning. Yikes. Growling is not disrespect, it is a communication and one of the only ways he knows HOW to communicate his uneasiness or discomfort. If you do some research on body language and calming signals you would be surprised how many more body signals and communications are given even before the growl, but most of us, without having them pointed out to us just don't see them.

I'm on a roll so I will continue about the dog park.
Young puppies (under five months) can find the dog park overstimulating and there is always the risk of non puppy friendly dogs. Daycare is different. There are staff trained to watch the dogs behaviours AND ALL the dogs are assessed before becoming "guests". Anyone can go to a dogpark. If you can go during slow times or know of other puppies that go that you can keep separate from the adults that is another thing..but I have seen many a young pup turned reactive by being attacked by a non puppy tolerant dog.
Good puppy classes, play dates with other puppies etc are a great way for socialization and communication skills to develop without putting your pup at risk.

Well, that's my fifty cents worth.

Good luck with Waldo!

 

Okay, so my next question would be have you ever had a puppy that at four months showed SIGNS of severe resource guarding regardless of your usual protocol? If not, then it is possible that the dogs you have had were not of the personality type that would resource guard at all?

I have worked with many dogs that never had a problem with taking something from them and also dogs that never growled even in painful situations. Some dogs are just growly vocalizers and some never growl at all because they don't feel they must until something really scary or unnerving happens. But that ONE dog that does may require an owner to step back, reassess what "has always worked" and try something else. This is often what sends owners into becoming trainers or behaviour geeks, searching for alternatives because what they have always done before simply is not working, or is worsening the behaviour.

The resource guarding dogs and puppies that I have worked with only worsened with the traditional preventative measures. These dogs had different reactions than the rest, for whatever reason. Since these dogs responded badly to the forceful measures, escalating to bites (not just snaps, full on bites to the bone) different non confrontational methods were necessary to prevent any more repeats of damage to the owners while still putting a stop to an escalating and dangerous behaviour. If it saves the humans from injury, helps to prevent the dreaded "getting rid of the dog" and it works in an easily understood way..why not go non-confrontational?

 

At the park...not taking treats is a good idea but since I have a fearful dog treats are part of my equipment...but if your dog guards toys, sticks, clods of dirt (hey, some DO!) then you need to work on alternate behaviours to proof. Like a really really good recall, a strong leave it and make sure any rewards given to the dog for complying are WORTH him leaving the item for another dog to get. I tend to 'make things disappear" by recalling the dog, putting it into a stay and picking up the item myself to put in garbage, return to the owner etc and then rewarding the stay with something great like a game of tug or food (as mentioned earlier I do take treats..but they are not "handed out" when other dogs are nearby and are kept safely zipped away when not in use).

If the behaviour continues, the dog and I LEAVE. No proper behaviour means no free play. Consequences that do not involve physical punishment. Leash time outs at the dog park and leaving when things start to go bad is effective negative punishment.

 

I'm actually trying to encourage my dog to growl at me. To trust me enough to become more assertive with me, or rather trust me enough to know she won't get punished for even the tiniest assertiveness..

Curious .... I don't get this...why? Are you talking play growls or real growls?

 

Makes sense to me. Good luck with her.

Off the cuff suggestion: maybe some games aimed more directly at her breed specific instincts (herding, protection). Our dog is very non aggressive and rarely barks (but has no confidence problems); but one little game makes him go crazy with growling and barking. I take a little squeaky toy, let him see it, a quick squeak or two then hide it when the dog approaches. Repeat. Everytime the dog stops paying attention it pops up and squeaks and then disappears when the dogs approaches, barks etc. He keeps getting increasingly aggressive towards it as he starts to think that he is making it go away by being aggressive to it etc. Its a bit analogous to some of the techniques used in training police dogs or how some dogs grow to be insane over the mailman coming and going each day. Anyways, just a thought.

 

I play with her similarly with a toy as well some. I've also been using a flirt pole to transition into tugging, That has opened her up to playing tug where before she wouldn't hold and pull at all. Kinda hijacked her strong prey drive to get her confidence up with me and I'm trying to show her I'm a better target and release for all that prey drive than little furry things.

I plan to try herding, she has a very high drive for that as well. It's the only way she really plays with other dogs 90% of the time, finding one that likes to be chased and herding it. Not until I get her recall and obedience more solid though.

I want to stay away from protection I think though, I want no real violence or aggression toward humans from her, as she's already too close to triggering fear aggression already when we're approached by men for my liking. I don't think it would be wise, at least not now. Maybe I'm wrong though.