Our dog, Amy, was recently put to sleep because she had liver and kidney problems. Depending on what was wrong at any given time was which food she was on. I would find out from your vet why HE wants that food. If it's the protein, find out how much he wants, and find a food that meets his criteria that you're happy with. I wish I had known to do this with Amy. I corrected it with the cats and the new dog. A lower quality food isn't something you want, especially for a pet that age with health problems. And keep in mind, if you feed 2 cups of food "A", and have to feed 5 cups of food "B" a day, even though food "B" has a lower protein percent, the dog is getting more grams of protein a day. I wouldn't really go by percent but by weight. I can take 1LB of protein, mix it with 5lb of corn and say feed 1lb, or 1 lb of protein with 10lb of corn, and feed 3lb a day, the second with a lower percent he's still getting more protein.

 

Did you compare dry to canned? (28% from Purina, 6.5% for canned K/D)? If so, there's a way you have to convert the protien in a canned food to a DMB (dry matter basis), and I don't know what the formula is but someone here is sure to know. If you didn't compare wet to dry (food), ignore this post
I've read so many different ideas on kidney diets it makes my head spin. What I've read (that makes the most sense) is you want X amount of protein, but you want a VERY HIGH quality protein. (Think of a Big Mac vs. a lean steak, kwim?) Corn is not a very high quality protien source. I think K/D sounds like a gross food, but I've known dogs who lived many quality years after they were Dx'ed with renal failure that ate K/D and nothing more.
A collie/husky mix being mostly healthy at 13 years or more is a great achievement, btw

 

Thanks for the replies. To answer the questions, the vet is basically looking to lower the protein in the food. Same thing we do with humans. He prefers the canned simply because it contains much more moisture. Yes I did compare the canned to my current dry. The dry samples of each brand [same as canned] just came in a small sample bag without any nutrition information. I mixed a little dry this evening with Kings regular food with no problem. I did decide to add a little more water than normal to the food to add to hydration.
Not to bore you but King is far from having one step in the grave. He still looks almost the same as when he was 6 years old which was the age a different vet guessed he was 2 years ago. A little arthritis in the rear but still able to jump in my Jeep. His coat is unbelievably thick and soft. He gets a glugosamine and fish oil tablet daily. I credit much of Kings health to all his therapy work as well as the fact that since I got King from the Collie Rescue in Pittsburgh at 14 months he has been biked at a fast walk almost everyday of his life. King, as well as all his work in nursing homes and shelters is also the reading dog at the local elementary school for reading disabled children. King was the only dog on the Eastern Shore ever chosen to receive Marylands Most Beautiful Persons award for all his volunteer work. I think it keeps him young.
I did have some good news today from the vet. Kings urinalysis came back and it was excellent, Had some minor crystals but vet said that could come from some sample contamination or sample heat.
I am really mulling over this food thing as how it relates to Kings quality of life. I may decide to lower the protein but not to the levels in some of these vet samples as I have to also think about energy level. One advantage of living in the therapy dog world is that I know lots of nurses and while humans are not quite the samer a lot of the nutrition discipline is. There has been some question as to just how much benefit lowering the protein actually has in extending life.
I plan to have King looked at again in a month by the vet to see how things are progressing. I am realistic that at Kings age I realize that he is living on borrowed time and my goal will be to be sure he has a good quality of life near the end which may still be a ways off.....I hope.

 

King sounds absolutely amazing. I have a lot of respect for therapy animals (and their handlers), it's time consuming but SO rewarding.
I'm not a 100% fan because I don't tend to refer to myself as an "Animal Guardian" (I am a Dog Owner, plain and simple) but the Whole Dog Journal has a LOT of really informative nutritional articles for dogs with health problems. They have had some really great articles on kidney problems and diet as well. Not sure if you're a subscriber, but if you decided to subscribe I'm pretty sure you can order back orders for cheap, it might be something to think about.
I've heard low protein is the way to go; and I've heard high protein with plenty of moisture (raw or canned) is great, and I've heard the quality of the protein is what matters most. In their own ways, they all make sense on paper, but in other ways they contradict one another so it's a tough call. I've heard protein will tax the kidneys, and that low protein can cause loss of body/muscle mass. I'm glad his urinalysis came back good. Depending on what you choose, I would keep in close contact with your vet and monitor what you're seeing and keep the urine tested to make sure things don't go out of whack when you decide on a plan of action. I think keeping active is a good plan as well as what he does for a living. I cared for a shepherd/husky cross who was fit, healthy, happy, and in good body and mind condition until the last week of her life. She lived to see her 20th birthday, which for a 75 pound plus dog is almost unheard of. She was an active dog in mind and body her whole life, like King, and I think it too helped to keep her young. Best of luck, keep us posted.

 

After the comment above I did a little further research on the canned versus dry protein difference and as you mentioned they cannot be directly compared. Using the accepted formula the 3.5% K/D protein actually equates to 14% protein in dry food. That is about half of the dry food I am now using. I do realize that there is a "quality" factor in protein but that is above my pay grade at the moment. I also ran across an interesting study from University of Pennsylvania Veterinary School that as you mentioned questions the whole idea of a low protein diet. It can be seen here;
http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/support-files/bovee_protein_renal.pdf I also find it interesting that the dog food I use which has served King so well over his entire 13 years to date is listed as one of the worst. Frankly I think profit drives some of these food decisions and one has to be really careful depending on the specific need of their dog. Thanks again for your insightful comments.

 

Hi! One of my dogs, Lucy, was diagnosed with beginning kidney disease from a senior blood panel. My vet wanted me to put her on a prescription dry/can diet from Purina (Purina NF). I took one look at the ingredients and decided "no way!" Lucy's values were actually a very high normal and her urinalysis was in the normal range, too. So, I'm not so sure I even need to worry about it at this point. I did ask the vet what we were trying to accomplish with presc. food. She said lower phosphorus, lower sodium, lower magnesium. That is doable. I started researching to find a lower phosphorus commercial kibble and can food. I decided not high protein grain-frees for Lucy...to high in phosphorus. I came up with some foods that I like for Lucy. Canine Caviar Special Needs was one. I also like Fromm 4-Star Whitefish (really any of their foods would be fine, I think). Castor & Pollux Organix Less Active was another one to consider. Lucy is also taking (and has been since May) a supplement called Rubenal that is supposed to slow the progression of kidney disease. Currently, she is eating Fromm 4-Star and taking the Rubenal. She also gets fish oil and somtimes coq10. She is doing great! This has worked for us.

 

Have you seen this link:
http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/low-protein-dog-food.html

It has lots of information and a list of other low protein foods that are not specifically KD foods.

Another option would be the Honest Kitchen's Preference. It is a mix that you add you own protein in so you could work it to make it exactly what is needed.

 

Sassy was diagnosed with early kidney issues in 2007 right when all the food recalls were happening. I hated feeding those corn pops anyway so I put her on homecooked food using the information here as the basis for her diet. I could not do the bit of this bit of that thing, I just cooked up chicken and rice mush but I did calculate calories, protein, fat and phosphorus and added in the calcium and other vitamins and minerals needed.
http://www.dogaware.com/kidney.html

My vet tells me kidney dogs lose muscle mass. Well feed that low protein stuff to a senior dog and of course there will be muscle wasting! Among Sassy's other issues is DM and while she sways and stumbles she can stand up at the oddest angles because she still has muscle. Before her diagnosis at age 13.5 she had been on fairly low protein Canidae and now gets about 28% of her calories from protein. I would put her quality of life over quantity. Who cares how low her creat and BUN are if she cannot get around? And low protein is old school, it was the very first SD food and was first made back in the 1930's and the name was first used in 1948! I am sure the formula has changed many times but the low protein is the same for sure.

If the kidneys are just starting to show their age I would feed something with minimal calcium and phosphorus levels with high quality protein that was canned, not dry and definitely not low protein! Dogaware has a list of lower phosphorus foods and you might want to look through the list on dogscoop for others. For dry you would look for about 1% Ca and >1% P but not sure what to look for in canned foods.

Lower phosphorus, not low protein. Protein from meat not grains. LOTS of fluids!

 

well said.....

 

Thanks again for the replies. I have read a lot about dog foods on the sites mentioned and the general theme seems to be toward these specialty foods. Yet I am still left with some questions. I obviously feed a commercial product although I researched it well when I first adopted King. I was looking for the meat, in my case chicken, to be listed as the #1 ingredient, high protein and a fat percentage that would give him a good coat. I wanted the food to be available without having to go to a vets office each time. When looking at the site that evaluated dog food there was one thing that caught my eye. In a commercial dog food like I feed King they point out in a negative way that the chicken, even though it is the #1 ingredient, is calculated at the wet weight and when dried would most likey would not be the #1 ingredient. I can accept that but when I looked at one of the high rated specialty dry foods that had chicken meal as the #1 ingredient, while they pointed out the same wet weight issue, it was framed in a positive light stating that at least it was listed as the #1 ingredient. The one indisputable fact is that after 13 years I have a dog that has never been sick a day in his life, has a beautiful coat and plenty of energy for his age. He now happens to have the beginnings of kidney disease which should not be a surprise for a dog his age. Remember that I still see no symptoms and this is all blood test related with the urinalisis still fine. I do wonder if his reduced ability to jump into the car or on the bed may be possibility related to loss of muscle mass than to arthritis. A soft coat has proved to be an asset in Kings therapy work and i do wonder if vets at times can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to quality of life. Frankly I question whether a veternarian should be involved in selling pet foods at all. But that is another conversation. That is also a legitimate question of just how many people can afford the cost to buy all these specialty foods. I can afford it if needed but I know a lot of people that can't and it bothers me to see the dogs that have been taken back to shelters because owners cannot afford their care.
Since I already bought the sample pak I have been mixing the dry food in with Kings regular food and also been adding a bit more water to the mix. Stools have become slightly softer since doing so. For what it is worth Kings regular food contains 1% Ca and .8%P. Now we are off the the Alzeimers center.

 

I wish I had more helpful answers for you. If King has thrived on a certain brand of food his whole life, I say Good For Him. I now a 75 pound dog who made it past 20 years old on grocery store brand foods. Her quality of life was excellent, and I'm a firm believer that genetics and environment can contribute to a long life as much as food. Feeding a good food certainly helps, and makes a lot of differences for a lot of dogs, but IMO it's not the only factor in the equation. Auz (my GSD) has 3 foods in his rotational diet. One of the foods price is going up and the bags are getting smaller, and I'm gradually fading it out of the rotation because I can't justify spending 65 bucks on a food that he does OK on when I'm digging into my savings account to pay for my oldest dogs unexpected vet care. He does equally well on the other two foods, so I'm going to let common sense take over on this one. If he had problems, I would certainly bite the bullet and feed this particular food, but for now he'll have to settle. (Money isn't an issue with my dogs (that's where my paycheck goes, lol!) but having had unexpected expenses this week with my oldest dog has made me budget a little tighter to compensate).
I hope King continues to thrive, and can continue doing his wonderful work. Do you have any pictures of him you could share? I feel like I already "know" him

 

Never tried uploading a photo before so this is an experiment. If it works you will see King visiting at nursing home, working with reading program at ElementarySchool and visiting adult day care center. http://yfrog.com/551000628wj
http://yfrog.com/mzdavidjj
http://yfrog.com/9fryan1fj

 

We've had a couple of kidney-issue dogs and had great luck with the prescription foods - both K/D and NF. Lab values and clinical symptoms have all improved. I've found it hard to keep a dog interested in eating K/D, so we stick with NF. Somehow Purina makes theirs tastier.

In the case of kidney issues, I do think the prescription foods are the way to go, unless you are going to do a homecooked or raw diet.

 

I thought I would complete this thread in case anyone else is dealing with kidney issues. Because of the white paper study I mentioned above which purports as a myth the need to feed low protein diets to dogs with early stage renal failure I contacted the Dean of the University of Pennsylvania college of veterinary medicine just to see if the 1998 study was still relevant. To my pleasant surprise I was referred to the associate professor of nutrition who did much more than just answer my simple question. She arranged to speak with Kings vet to get his thoughts and ascertain the exact blood and urine test levels and then speak with me on a preaaranged morning call. The call lasted for about an hour and I learned a lot, some of which I will share below for anyone interested.
1. To the average dog owner it is almost impossible to determine a dog foods quality from the label reading alone. The reason for this is because the standards are still based on a livestock formula and one needs a lot of nutrition knowledge to decipher the label. They are working with the FDA to have this changed.
2. I mentioned that a lot of internet information tends to denigrate the large commercial producers of dog food such as Hills and Purina. She felt that was misleading. She has fed her dogs Purina One which happened to be what I have been using. Her reasons had to do with plant cleanliness, ingredient consistency etc. She mentioned, for instance, that IAMS had a recent recall but that they had initiated the recall on their own. I am not saying these commercial foods are the best but don't necessarily deserve the bad rap often associated with commercial products. The final arbiter for the owner of course is the dog who can be observed for energy, health of coat etc.
3. In a dog with early stage kidney failure such as King it is not reccomended to go to a prescription low protein diet. Dogs need protein for coat health and energy. The K/Ds and other prescription diets are more beneficial in late stage kidney failure when the tradeoffs may be worth the switch.
4. I asked why some of these dog foods had to be bought as a "prescription". The answer was basically that they do not meet the nutritional standards for a normal dog food. As mentioned above they are used when the kidney function is degraded to the point where they offer the only viable option.
5. She made a point to say that in early stage kidney failure it is a good idea to keep phosporus low. In Kings case, while a low protein prescription diet is not reccomended, it was suggested that I switch from Purina One to Hills Sr Science food. This food has a very low phosporus percentage. This food is not available in supermarkets like Purina One but is available at pet centers. I will be making that switch. Adding a little more water than normal to dry food is something that I can do easily at feeding time as well.
Finally, as a side note, she mentioned their studies have shown that dogs kept on the thin side have an average life span of about 2 additional years. That is huge considering the average life of a dog. So keep your dog at its proper weight.

 

Thanks JackB! This is very helpful to me and lets me know that I've been on the right track with Lucy. She is at the very, very beginning stages. I did switch her to a lower phosphorus food (Canine Caviar Special Needs at first with .5% phosphorus and now Fromm Whitefish with .8%). I also add can foods and water to her food for extra moisture. She has a water dish on every floor of the house. She has access outside whenever she wants via a doggie door. She also gets fish oil and pre/probiotics and a supplement that slows the progression of kidney disease called Rubenal (recommended by my vet). She is doing fantastic! Good luck with your dog and I'm glad you were able to speak with this nutritionist.

 

Thank you for the update. #4 is very important. Sassy was getting less than half the amount of phosphorus a healthy dog needs. Her food was definitely not appropriate for other dogs delicious though it was.

Not sure about the weight thing. Kidney dogs lose their appetite if BUN or phosphorus gets uncomfortably high so a couple of extra pounds will help when you run into a rough patch. Sassy only lost her appetite if she had to take antibiotics, her phosphorus never got above normal because I started dosing phosphorus binder when it started rising and her BUN stayed pretty steady because I insisted she get subcutaneous fluids.

 

What a super dog King is. I am very interested in the work that King does and am keen to know more about exactly what these programmes entail. Are there some links I could follow to find out more? The value of dogs in healing on all levels is amazing.

 

At the risk of thread drift here is some quick information. First, regardless of any training programs available, most people know if their dog has a leaning towards therapy work. The dog likes people, minds well, handles distractions well etc. One then should get their dog qualified. In my area I did this through the AKC with their Good Canine Certification program. This certification is especially important when working with children in schools or places like the library mainly as a legal protection for the facility. You will also need up to date shots with vet certification. It is not all that hard to obtain these certifications if you are serious about doing the work.
I always look at any therapy work as a "team" approach meaning it is not always just walking into a facility with a dog and having folks ooh and ahh because you have a dog. At times it may be enough just to have a nursing home resident pet your dog. Other occasions are such that your dog opens up opportunities for you to engage in conversation. King, after all these years, knows when that happens and just lies down on the floor and listens. Also as a "guy" it would be a little uncomfortable for me to walk into a nursing home room with two older woman but bring the dog and the dynamic changes completely.
Each venue is a little different but that makes it fun. Nursing homes need to be approached a little differently than assisted living centers and senior day care centers or homeless shelters all of which King visits. The one Golden rule we practice is that "it is all about the people we visit" our goal is to leave them smiling. [add increased reading skills at the schools]
The school or library reading programs are a different ballgame all together. Much of the work is done by the dog owner since all the dog has to do is "be there". We work in an elementary school with reading challenged children. We might be scheduled for 3-5 students a week. Each student will read no more than 15 minutes and they get to give King a treat and walk him to the next student. They also keep their reading progress on a chart and move a dog one space towards a dog house after each reading session. When complete each student receives a certificate and a photo taken with King. The times are scheduled by the special ed teacher via e-mail to me. The nice thing about it is the schedule,. Being a school if my first student is at 1pm, King and I arrive at 10 minutes of 1, sign in and walk into the classroom exactly on time. We are normally finished in an hour although that can be an exhausting hour. King is a benefit even on the days he is not in school as the teachers use his coming as an incentive to practice their book they have selected to read to him. We also, as a spin off, work with any severly autustic children in the school where they will pet King, walk him around and whatever else happens to come up. [it is surprising what these students come up with]
I do all my programs on my own but patterened the reading program after one I found at the Intermountain Therapy site. http://www.therapyanimals.org/Home.html I believe when I started there was more "free" infprmation available on the site. They now sell a $50 package but look through the FAQs and you may get many questions answered.
Everyone needs to find an area of dog therapy work with which they are comfortable and enjoy less it become just work. I have found some folks who are uncomfortable in a nursing home but do well with reading programs for children. For what it is worth I have never found a dog that discerns any difference. It can be very rewarding and I hope you pursue any opportunities available in your area. It is really quite easy once you get a couple fundamentals down and, as I can personally attest, very rewarding.

 

Thanks for the in depth response and your risking breaking thread rules - much appreciated. I will follow up in my part of the world, South Africa. Keep up the good work.

 

Hi! My two Cavaliers (pictured here in my profile) are therapy dogs through Therapy Dogs International. I also have two other dogs, but I knew they were not suited to this kind of work due to their personalities. Anyway, the Cavs have their CGC certificates, of course. We, as a team of three, do work at nursing homes, library reading programs, schools and I've done a seminar at an Alzheimers home. My local hospice has expressed an interest in having us come, as well. I also took Stella (before I adopted Hazel) to the special needs childrens camp my daughter worked at the past two summers. It is very rewarding, to say the least!!