only 8 weeks old .... play opportunity training as it happens yes.. but focus ob training daily will cause frustration behavior like biting chewing more then usual, 8 weeks they need fun romps, not force exercised, need plenty of naps to give their energy for growing...

why I love crates.. It's total me mommy rest time,, it's a lot of mental 100% to keep an eye on a puppy non stop... dog learn from doing.... the more trouble they get into the more they learn about all the super fun bad things to get into to seek it out.. No boundaries of having a safe rest place,, is learning must be doing all the time.. I love a hyper, super smart dog that appreciates quiet , rest time...

 

The most important thing here is that your puppy needs a safe place such as a pen or a puppu proof room where he can play but not have anything dangerous or inappropriate to play with. Think of him as a baby or toddler. It is up to you to provide the safe environment and set him up for success by onlu giving him access to appropriate toys.

For the biting stay consistent. This isn't somethjng you can fix in a couple days. It may take weeks or months to fully sink in but he will learn it eventually as long as you stay consistent with the yelping, withdrawing attention and time outs.

 

Thank you for your reply.

I am trying to figure out what is the best option for the puppy. We do not have a spare room that we can fully proof for him. The only areas would be either the kitchen or bathroom. However, I have been told that this breed does not pee/poo in the same area/room that they sleep in, eat or play in. He sleeps with us in our bedroom but during the night if he needs to eliminate - he leaves the room and does it elsewhere.

Kitchen is were he eats and if we lock him up there, he will have to poo/pee there. It just does not make sense what they have advised me that he cannot be kept in the same room.

Do you think the bathroom would be a good option for him? Or should i let him stay with us during the night and play pen when he needs to be timed out and is by himself? Or time out area cannot be the same as his play alone area?

He has plenty of rest when he wants, however, usually he follows us around ALL the time..if he falls asleep and hears we are on the other side of the house he will come to us and etc.

If i do get a play pen, should he be sleeping in it too? or I can use it only for time outs and when we need to go out?

Thanks!

 

There is nothing wrong with having a place for him to pee and poo in the same room you keep him in if you have to leave him home for any length of time. It is much better having something like the bathroom which you can usually keep free of anything he might chew on and hurt himself. Electric cables can electrocute your puppy if he bites into them and lots of other things can cause blockages and a big Vet bill if he swallows them like socks or material. Just put his bed, food and water at one end and the puppy pads or newspaper at the other end of the room. They do not like to go close to their bed but in the same room is quite usual.

 

Honestly, I can't imagine house breaking a puppy without a crate. It isn't nearly as cruel as it sounds and really it helps set boundaries in addition to keeping the puppy out of trouble when you can't supervise. At that age its all about prevention... if he attacks the plant whenever he goes on the balcony, move the plant out of reach so that it isn't even a possibility. Our first christmas with a puppy meant no tree and presents stored safely until christmas. Not saying you can't have a tree up, it just means constant supervision and maybe some kind of barrier. The crate was an essential tool in our housebreaking and really I can't imagine working without one.

 

If you are worried about confining your dog for its own safety just imagine having a human baby without a crib or playpen.

 

awesome..thanks for the replies!

have you guys had any issues that the play pen is a form of punishment when being naughty as well as being place for fun/sleeping?

I am still thinking if i should go with play pen or just use the bathroom for it all. I think play pen would be better so I can place him in the lounge room so he can see and hear us when we are around. Would you guys agree? That way I can use the bathroom when needed and not have to try manage doing my business while he is in there!

 

if you make it punishment it will be punishment... so consider your behavior in putting the puppy there to what they will learn about it.. If a puppy is getting into everything and ( I need a time out) the puppy going into the crate is a positive.. always.... because he went into the crate "good boy treat reward here's a chewy to occupy your time while your in there" and is rewarded for coming out of the crate for spending time in the crate.. so its a positive they look forward to going into the crate spending their time in there and for coming out. What ever the puppy was getting into is solved (over, done, forgotten) when you called the puppy to you , so you can teach him to go into the crate for reward... so you can go clean up the mess the puppy was into....

puppy punishment doesn't make sense to me.. so many things a puppy will get into as a puppy that need redirecting to proper activities, or your prevention , that when they adults they not interested in because there is other things more constructive things they have learned that are more fun and available to them.. I spend my time teaching/showing puppies the better things to do ... then waste the time correcting them for what they shouldn't be doing. It's a choice of what will benefit you more for the future... and for me learning by showing what are the good things to do that I can reward so they will repeat it,, is the better more productive choice of my time in that moment.

 

only 8 weeks old .... play opportunity training as it happens yes.. but focus ob training daily will cause frustration behavior like biting chewing more then usual, 8 weeks they need fun romps, not force exercised, need plenty of naps to give their energy for growing...

+ one.

Get a crate.

 

+2 crate will help

 

Thank you everyone for the replies.

I am looking into buying a crate now.

I have purchased the Play Pen yesterday and he seems to like it and doesnt think much of it at all. He went in there and played around and laid there happily.

What I wanted to ask, when it comes to crate/pen training, would you guys suggest leaving the door/gate open so he can go in and out as he pleases? or leave the gate shut so only when I choose to open it he is allowed to come out?

I am reading up on how to crate thain them, but just thought Id see what are your opinions. I was thinking if i leave it open and let him go in and out when he is roaming under my supervision that might confuse him when i close the gate and he wont understand why it is closed. Or would you say there is no conenction between the two and I can do both?

He plays around the area with me and likes to go and get his water and rest in the play pen, get his other toys and etc. So I am thinking about leaving the gate open..but I will also use this pen for when i leave the house or i cant supervise him.

From what i undestand about crate/pen training - that should be ok as long as i give him favourite things in the pen when it is closed up. I have been hidding little treats in his bed when he is not looking and he looks to like his bed a lot more.

Hope i am doing the right thing so far

 

Well the open/shut crate gate is simple, when you need the pup contained the gate is shut. With very young pups if phone rings I will put pup in crate cause while I'm talking pup can have a pee/dump accident, I prefer to keep accidents at a mininum. Too many accidents and you have a habit.

When you are not busy and can supervise pup then gate can be open just remember you must be there if pup wakes up and comes out of crate cause immediately he should go outside.

 

Thats what I have been doing. It has been working very well so far, he has pooped and peed outside. He is doing the peeing in doubles and triples though..i came back after work and my fiance had placed him in the pen to start training him. When i got back and he woke up, before play i let him go outside and he peed there, then laid down and was playing with me for 10mins. Thinking he was done i went back inside - turn my back for 30 seconds and hes going at it again - he did not pee in his old spot (i deodorize with a cleaner after each accident), i grabbed him and took him outside - 10mins again no wee. Go back inside and there goes another one. He did not even smell or circle around looking for a spot...just went for it! I will try playing with him more and not let him out of the balcony until i am sure he is done.


The issue that I am really concerned about is his viscous biting. In my OP I did mention his biting and I had the advice given to me already and I have been trying to follow it. The more we follow it the more crazy he goes.

I received a text message from my fiance who said she cannot stop him from biting, it started small - on the hands, she moved the hands away...started biting her leg, she stood up..started biting her feet, she started walking away from him...as she was walking away he chased her and kept biting really really hard. She tried to keep him away but he went even more at it. So she put him in the bathroom. Now here are my options, what would you guys say is the best:

Option 1: Place him in the bathroom, no toys, no blanket, just totally empty bathroom.
Option 2: place him in the bathroom with toys and blanket.
Option 3: put him away in the play pen with his regular toys
Option 4: put him away in the play pen with no toys.

I thought the best would be bathroom with toys so he can calm down.

She didnt have enough time to put toys in the bathroom so she put him in there by himself. 30seconds later he went quiet. So she opened the door after about a minute or so to check if he has calmed down. Here is a picture of what she found:

He has never, ever paid any interest in the washing basket. He got in there within 30seconds. I guess the bathroom + only his toys is the only option.

 

Well I see the problem, TOES!!!!! you really don't expect the pup to ignore toes, do you????? Just not gonna happen, , .

 

Okay, so there seems to be progress and one day we believe we take a few step forward and in a few hours we take 10 steps backwards.

He now has a play pen, where he gets his food, his snacks and treats, there is water and he gets a toy to play with. If I am unable to surprise he goes to the pen. If I am around the area, the door is left open so he can go in and out as he pleases.

We were playing with a rope toy on the floor and he was seeming fine - no biting on my hands or other areas, running around and playing tug of war. Being a good little boy. Then he decided to go into crazy mode and attack things he is not supposed to, such as training pad, fly screens on the sliding doors, chair legs, couch..anything he could get his teeth on. I tried getting his attention back to the toy - no luck. I tried getting his attention with a different toy - no luck. Saying ah-ah, pulling him away, getting interest in something else - no luck. He would stop and then few seconds later back into whatever naughty thing he was doing. He would even take his toy over to the pee pad and put it on top of the pee pad and attack the pad not the toy. Even started to bite my fiance and myself really hard. So I thought enough and put him into the bathroom for a time out. 15 minutes of scratching the door and crying he did not stop, nor there were any signs that he was going to stop - i let him out. I don't know if this was the right thing to do or not. When you give your dog a time out - how long does it last?? I dont want to do the wrong thing and stress him out and same time I dont want him to associate that crying will get him what he wants.

Once I let him out, he just got back to the same as he was doing before..climbing on coffee tables and chewing everything, no interest in toys..its like he knows he is being annoying and is doing it on purpose. I have placed him in the play pen and he continued crying for good 10minutes before falling asleep just now. He does not seem to like to sleep in the pen and gets up every few minutes.

I have no idea how to deal with the play pen. I never kept any of my dogs in a pen, ever. They all just laid next to us while we watched tv, or sat near the kitchen if we prepared food. I am doing the same here, if he is napping I will let him stay outside the pen, and once awake he goes to the bathroom to wee and back inside once he is done. Same goes for after every play time. I have no issues with him weeing inside. 95% of the time he is now weeing and pooping outside. My other dogs never got into so many naughty things as this one, he chews everything with no way of stopping him.

Do you guys keep your dogs in the pens/crates 24/7 unless playing with them or they are outside? He has no interest in playing by himself at all, no interest in kongs, soft toys or ropes unless I am on the floor playing with him. I mean I do not mind playing as this is why i got the puppy but if he is in the pen he wont play with any toys. If he is not tired out, he wont rest/sleep = crying non stop while in the pen. Meaning that I cannot let him be alone until he is completely tired, meaning that I have no time for anything else..he sleeps for 20-40minutes every 2-3 hours and that is 12 hours per day.

Struggling to keep up with the little one..any advise?

 

what is the schedule you want? If you could choose exactly how your day with living with your pup what would that look like?? Granted that you cover the basic needs for the pup .

I set a fair schedule, and even if a pup fusses I work on that schedule every day and stay consistent with it... Right now I'm working with a zoomie Kitten.. He has a cat house and isn't old enough or trained to be able to go in and out of the house yet.. Putting him in his cat house while its opend dog door ,, (dog time) he is not happy with and will cry but every day staying on my schedule for Kitten time.. he is getting and settled in quicker and quicker.. same with the pups.. Not going to spend all day catering to them or being their entertainment, don't want to teach them from the start, that is what I am for them, ,, one of their litter mates... Playing is great, but getting them all riled up is not where I go with game playing.. Playing games is teaching puzzle solving, and ob skills ,, rules how to play the game and how to win the game.. very constructive approach on how to interact..

will help on writing out your schedule for idea's to start

two columns
what is every thing that you need to accomplish during your day

what are the basic needs you need to accomplish for your pup

with those too list find the times of the day to do them.. and see if any of your things,, that you can involve the pup to come do them with you.. Me doing house cleaning, doing farm chores, I can find jobs to teach a new pup or dog to be helpers.. even if means just coming along beside me and us practicing some heel , sit, waits..

 

what is the age to start OB training? I have taught him to sit, which is quite basic but we have not started on any of the stay commands or anything. And I find it hard to teach it not go and do something ie climb on the chair next to me while i am having lunch without telling him to sit. I really am not a big fan of locking him up everytime i eat or want to watch tv. Is this were I am going wrong? Today i had some treats at the ready and every time he climbed up as I was eating I would tell him ah-ah and sit! At first he would only sit for a few moments and jump again..i would give him a treat and see how he reacts. At the end of 15minutes I was able to make him sit and wait for a snack for 2-3 minutes without jumping. I will be increasing this time frame as I go along. I am just scared that starting commands such as sit, lay down, heel or stay might frustrate him more and add to the biting. Thats what I have been told though, not to train him too much with OB training.

My schedule is quite messy. I am up at 6am on weekdays and leave the house by 7am and I am back around 5pm. My fiance is currently staying at home for the next 4-5 weeks to look after him. She will be going back to work and will be leaving at 8am and getting back around 3pm. He will need to be by himself for that time 4 days per week. Is this bad for the pup? He will be over 3 months old once we leave him alone. When I asked the breeder she said that was fine and we shouldnt worry about it. That should be his schedule I guess for the next 4-5 weeks?

 

lets start with ob skills too young causing frustration and butting... no it wont, if you are introducing exposure to learning focus attention to body position and application and not focused on exact execution of them where you would correct punish them for it,, that you are not drilling them over and over and over using correction or punishment.. but using the opportunity, puppies sit all the time on their own you can good sit priase and reward that, eventually they lay down on their own... nothing wrong with a pup who lays down on their own to say good down and put a treat between their paws and your done..... (they have no idea what just happen lol) but eventually they will make the connection of body position and reward.

as long as you view containment as caging them as negative,, your not going to see the positive benefits..... my first exposure in teaching (wait or stay) on a pup... is the fact that a baby gate gives the boundaries for me... I don't have to man handle a pup introducing the body position of stay or wait.. they stop at the baby gate anyway why not throw in a command word for the action ( or no action) and a reward..

what does putting them in a crate teach them while your eating....... exactly what you would want them to know and do when they older.. lay down and wait.. not to be jumping up at you while your eating.. so many bad learned habits can be avoided by taking an event that will get you puppy doing bad things, and teaching them to not get into it in the first place... to learn a behavior you will have to un teach them...

right now you have a puppy who has no skills, no attention span, no focus.. (what do you have to work with) except counteracting what the puppy have to offer being a silly rambunctious fun loving pup behaviors. You wanting to spend the time to work with your pup not to jump up at you while your eating "makes the difference" if your going to get mad and frustrated and punish your pup for doing it ... I would say put the puppy in the crate.. but your being positive to your puppy taking the time to reward him for a better behavior and enjoying the process that is helping him..

 

I have spent the last few days training him to stay in is play pen. First, every time i put him there - he cried..that cry time became shorter and shorter. Yesterday he would cry for about 5mins then 2-3mins and less when I placed him there. I remained in the room/kitchen as it is a joined area and he would look around and go to sleep once he realised he was not getting my attention.

Question 1: if he cries and I look at him, without saying anything or touching anything or even coming close to the play pen - he looks at me and stops crying. Does that mean I have engaged him and now he will cry until I look at him? I just look to make sure he isnt in pain or got wet when jumping into the water or something similar.

Question 2: He does not play with his toys in the pen. I have put a stuffed kong in there, he plays with it for 30seconds and it no longer interests him. Same goes for any other toy..he was looking at me, then crying, then looking again..then he lays down and just falls asleep. I cant get him to be interested in his toys. That goes for when he is out of the pen too. If I am touching the toy, he is interested - if the toy is on the floor laying there - no interest. He will go and attack something else..cabinet, couch leg, chair leg, table leg and etc..then i have to come and grab him. I see this as attention seeking and i am rewarding his behaviour. I try to encourage positive behaviour and reward him for it and it works but as soon as I move on from there, he cannot find anything to do with himself. I can put him in a pen, but if i am sitting on the couch watching tv he can be by my side playing with his toy, but he doesnt play alone. Is there anything I can do to teach him that he can play with his toys alone? I even try to hide toys and keep them on rotation so he is not bored of them - no luck.

Question 3: this morning schedule training began. This is new for him. Last few days he happily stayed in the pen and cried for a few mins then relaxed, but i was around the house somewhere so he could probably hear me. This morning I let him go wee and poo, played with him, fed him and put him in the pen. Gave him a stuffed kong, as soon as i walked towards the door, crying started. He continued crying for a straight 45minutes with 2-3minute breaks in between. My fiance was sleeping in the next room and eventually got up and let him out as he would not stop. Would he get better at this at all? Just keep repeating it and do not let him out when he is crying? Even after 45mins?

In the morning I need some time to get ready, shower and etc...after I was done with his play, food and potty i put him in the pen to go for a shower. He cried as soon as I left the room..I walked back in and didnt pay attention to him, he stopped crying..2-3mins later of no crying i let him out. I took him to the bathroom with me as I showered so he can lay on the floor and see that I am around. He did not like the closed door, so I opened the door, he walked out and sat there crying again. I walked out of the shower, ignoring him and he just followed me around. I did not play with him or anything so he didnt need my immediate attention, it seems he just wanted to be around someone and hates closed doors whether i am inside the same room or not.

Ultimate question: do i just put him in the pen with his toy and water and no matter how long he cries do not take him out of the pen? My fiance should then walk into the room once she is awake and ignore him if he is crying - Then let him out once he stops? But doesn't walking into the room already show that he has got attention? He doesnt mind it during the day but only when we are around, if he cant hear us then the whinning starts with no end. Am I doing something wrong or should i just keep doing what I am?

I need to train him within 4 weeks, otherwise we will get bad complaints from neighbours as they are quite nasty even though they have their own pets which make noise..

 

am just wondering did you read the breed traits of your puppy??? your pup is acting well within his natural breed traits.. "dependent personality"

 

This morning I let him go wee and poo, played with him, fed him and put him in the pen

Well were he my pup when I finished with playing and feeding I would take him outside again to dump/pee etc.

 

We wake up and i take him to the balcony for a quick poo/pee..We then play for a bit and then he eats. We play some more and then I start getting ready for work and take him out one more time. But he just sits there looking at me with 'what would you like me to do' face and nothing happes for 10mins. He seems to poop 3 times a day and pees every 3-4 hours with the exception overnight when he only does it after 7 hours. Would you say walk him first and then feed him? That is once he has all his shots. This morning he didnt want to eat this breakfast. Chewed a few pieces and walked away.

@PatriciafromCO

I did a lof of research into the breed and we love the fact that he is a companion breed dog. We love spending time and it is soo cute when he is following us around and goes everywhere we go. I am just wanting to prepare him for when he is alone when we go to work. To make sure he is ok with it and not too distressed and starts feeling unwell. Not all of his breed traits are showing, some we were more worried about than others. And tbh what i thought would be very hard was very easy, and things that I did not even expect are hard to achieve. Our golden retriever, which is a known biter breed, did not chew or bite anything - at all. I guess its nurture vs nature too.

Thats why I want to teach him right the first time so I dont have trouble trying to correct a behaviour later once it is established. There is so much information online that I dont know which works and what doesnt, thats why I am asking the experts here who have had all kinds of weird results from the training.

Thank you all for your help and advise