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Discussion Starter #1
It seems a shame that most dogs miss out on having a "full" life by missing this very integral part of being an animal. Even dogs that do breed often expel in the vet's office. And any dog that has any illness is deemed not fit to ever have this experience and is made a eunich and hormonally diminished. I feel bad for dogs that can't have a doggy date with the girl in heat down the block and instead sits at home going nuts as she waits for suitors. I know it's "healthier" for them, but this kind of drive is millions of years in the making. It's amazing that thier own natural hormones are dangerous to theri health and seems odd that we haven't found a way to address this through breeding rather than just "fix" the problem surgically.

How come we can give a dog a monthly heartworm pill but not a monthly birth control pill so they can have thier doggy dates "safely"? And I think that the crowd that won't spay/nueter will be more likely to go this route and prevent unplanned litters. I'd think someone would become a millionaire making this product. So why isn't it out yet?

(Btw, I'm not a complete idiot and do know that dogs need to be fixed, but somewhere in the back of my mind I feel bad that they are missing something important.)
 

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I wouldn't buy it, I would fine it a waist of money. Why would I spend a bunch of money for my dog to freely have sex and possibly contract a disease. When a dog gets spayed or neutered they don't have the urge to mate any more so they really aren't missing out on anything. Dogs don't have sex for funzies that is not how they work, humans, bonobos, and dolphins are the only creatures that do that. Dogs do it because of a primal urge to repopulate and when that urge is taken away then they could care less.

And I also don't feel like they are missing anything important....why is sex so important to a dog?
 

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Dogs don't have sex for fun like primates (including humans) and dolphins do (those are the only animals known to have sex for fun). It actually seems slightly unpleasant, what with the tying and all. So I don't think they're missing out on anything, it's purely their instinct to reproduce that makes them have sex at all.

And everybody's hormones are "dangerous". All systems in our bodies can malfunction, including the reproductive system. What makes you think a dog's hormones are any more dangerous than anybody else's?

That being said, there are birth control option for dogs (Ovaban and Ovarid are 2 I know of for sure). But they prevent the heat cycle from occurring at all (same as human birth control). And have risks of their own (same as human birth control). I don't think there's anything that will allow dogs to have sex freely without risk of pregnancy. Except for giving a male a vasectomy.

Plus, I don't see any point in using birth control pills/shots for dogs. They're only in heat for a few weeks every year, why bother yanking their hormones around to prevent that? It's not rocket science to keep her away from males for that period. Cat breeders do use various birth control methods all the time, though, since cats are in heat so often. Maybe you could look into a cat breeders site if you want to find more info on birth control for animals.

And I really doubt that anyone who can't be bothered to spay or contain their female dog is really going to give her a birth control pill evey day :rolleyes:.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but what is it you think they're missing out on? Intercourse?
Well, yeah. I don't see how this wouldn't "matter" to a dog. I mean I know you can take away the urge and then take away the problem, but you could do that with humans too. and yet I think most would argue that even if the person doesn't "miss" it because of their low sex drive, they are still missing out on something that is part of the human experience and was millions of years in the making. I mean to say dogs don't enjoy it is like saying they don't enjoy food. Sure eating is a primal urge but all of our primal urges that were meant to ensure our survival and reproduction make us feel good, or we wouldn't do them and our species would quickly become extinct. Is the human "urge" for sex based on a primal urge or a want of fun? I would think these amount to the same thing if we're looking at evolution and natural selection. Why would it be different for dogs?

Sure you don't miss what you never had, but no sex drive, while not hurting a human, is a medical condition. When you remove a dog's sex drive, don't you think they are missing out, even if they don't actually "miss" it?
 

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And any dog that has any illness is deemed not fit to ever have this experience and is made a eunich and hormonally diminished.
They're just sex organs, genitalia, for God's sake, LOL. I know several women who've had mastectomies and hysterectomies and believe me, it's NOT a big deal. Lack of reproductive organs doesn't make them "less of a woman" or "diminished" in any way, LOL. I'm pretty sure they don't consider themselves eunuchs either. Like Willowy said, dogs don't mate for fun--they do it solely to reproduce. Why, as humans, are we so obsessed with genitalia and sex, and projecting that onto our animals?? It just baffles me.

Jen
 

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Jenz i agree, way too many people project their feelings about sex/genitalia onto their dogs. Like the whole prosthetic balls thing.

You know besides the point of some neutered dogs still do mount and tie with females. So there ya go "fixing" them doesn't inhibit them if they "really" want to do it.
 

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If dogs did have sex for fun, they would still do it after being spayed/neutered. Doing some research on (human) eunuchs/castrati, apparently they had quite a reputation with the ladies. So if sex is part of the "dog experience", they wouldn't care if they were castrated or not. Plus, not all wolves in a pack will mate. So if you want to get right down to it, it's not natural for all dogs to mate.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
They're just sex organs, genitalia, for God's sake, LOL. I know several women who've had mastectomies and hysterectomies and believe me, it's NOT a big deal. Lack of reproductive organs doesn't make them "less of a woman" or "diminished" in any way, LOL.
I'm not talking about the physical altering, I was refering to the hormonal altering before sexual maturity. If we gave women hysterectomies at the age of say 9, that would most definitely affect her trememdously. Breast don't produce hormones, but removing gonads before puberty has a profound effect. The dog doesn't know it but niether would a human. We could invest billions of dollars into reducing the suman sex drive (espeically in teenage boys!! :) ) and no one would "suffer," in fact ehy might be relieved of the suffering from the urge for sex, but I think we would agree that this primal urge is vital to the human experience, even if you don't "miss" it.

I swear, I'm not nuts. I get it, really. I wouldn't even consider NOT getting my dog spayed. But I can't argue that I do it for the sake of the dog but rather b/c it's a lot more convinient for me and for us to manage the dog population. It's not b/c of pregnancies, b/c we could make other arrangements for that. it's not b/c the urge makes them crazy, b/c it's not having the oulet that makes them crazy--the satifaction of the urge would be a good thing. It's not b/c of their helath, b/c all organ systems can have health issues. And it's not b/c of their temperment b/c we breed specifically for temperment and should be able to breed a nice temperment in an intact dog. It's for our convinienc--and that's fine. But I can't believe that dogs don't like to knock boots, so to speak.
 

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Dogs don't like to knock boots. It's purely instinct. Sex for cats is extremely painful for the female, which is why she fights the male so hard even when she is in heat. Yet there's no shortage of cats.
 

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Well, yeah. I don't see how this wouldn't "matter" to a dog. I mean I know you can take away the urge and then take away the problem, but you could do that with humans too. and yet I think most would argue that even if the person doesn't "miss" it because of their low sex drive, they are still missing out on something that is part of the human experience and was millions of years in the making. I mean to say dogs don't enjoy it is like saying they don't enjoy food. Sure eating is a primal urge but all of our primal urges that were meant to ensure our survival and reproduction make us feel good, or we wouldn't do them and our species would quickly become extinct. Is the human "urge" for sex based on a primal urge or a want of fun? I would think these amount to the same thing if we're looking at evolution and natural selection. Why would it be different for dogs?

Sure you don't miss what you never had, but no sex drive, while not hurting a human, is a medical condition. When you remove a dog's sex drive, don't you think they are missing out, even if they don't actually "miss" it?
I don't know, I just don't think saying they're missing out on something is a valid argument. As jenz said, is a woman who has undergone a hysterectomy missing out on something? What about a virgin? Or someone who chooses to be abstinant? I'm a vegetarian. Does that mean I'm missing out on something because I have the teeth to eat meat but I choose not to? You could probably argue that these are all based on choices, where a dog isn't given one. What about a child whose parents raise them as a vegetarian? Are people missing out on something because evolution provided them the means to go out and kill their meals, rather than drive to the grocery store like most people do?

I also keep my dog contained in my house/on a leash. Is she missing out because I don't allow her to free roam the neighbourhood?
 

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I'm not talking about the physical altering, I was refering to the hormonal altering before sexual maturity.
Many, many dogs are well altered after sexual maturity and don't "miss" sex enough to engage in it after they are altered. I really think you are projecting your human feelings about sex onto dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You know besides the point of some neutered dogs still do mount and tie with females. So there ya go "fixing" them doesn't inhibit them if they "really" want to do it.
If dogs did have sex for fun, they would still do it after being spayed/neutered.
Well, active dog says they do. (I think mounting is not necessarily sexual though.)

Beside, humans do it for fun, but not if they have no sex drive. When you fix a dog you remove his sex drive. If a human has not sex drive he won't want to have sex, even for fun. I think removing the sex drive and therefore removing the sex, does not mean that they wouldn't do it for fun if they were intact. I'd still spay/nueter, but I do think it comes at some expense to the dog, even if she/he doesn't know it.
 

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If they did it for fun, females would allow males to mate them even when they aren't in heat. And they don't. . .pity the poor male who tries anything! And, yes, some neutered males will even tie with a female in heat, but not with a female who's not in heat.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Honestly, I think you're spending too much time thinking about your hypothetical dog's sex life.
I'ts not a hypothetical dog, it's a real dog. LOL. But I know what you mean. However, mu pup is just a baby at 9 months old and like my children, I'm in complete denial about them ever having sex. LOL.
 

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I wasn't referring to mounting as in "humping" I was referring to it as in the process of intercourse.

Why do you think dogs do it for fun?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If they did it for fun, females would allow males to mate them even when they aren't in heat. And they don't. . .pity the poor male who tries anything!
Well that isn't true--I mean we are all agreed that humans do it for fun, but would you let a guy do you just b/c he was in the mood even if you weren't. Isn't that was long time and long suffering husbands complain about, that they are in the mood but their wives aren't and won't put out?
I also keep my dog contained in my house/on a leash. Is she missing out because I don't allow her to free roam the neighbourhood
Those are some excellent points about not partaking in EVERYTHING and yet not feeling deprived. But wouldn't you think that a dog that's never allowed to roam free is missing out, even if he doesn't know any better? I think that if something that would be enjoyable is withheld, then the animal is missing out, even if he doesn't know it. If you wouln't enjoy eating meat then you aren't missing out. Many would feel that if you raise your child to be a vegetarian the kid is missing out.

The question then becomes, do dogs enjoy sex? I can't see any evidence to suggest that no, they just do it because of the urge. I mean, we have lots of urges, that doesn't mean we don't enjoy them.

(BTW, I think a 50 yr old virgin is definitely missing out!) And I'm really not thinking about my baby girl, but actually my friend shows his dog (he was at westminster) and a girl down the street is in heat and the dog is miserable. That's what got me thinking about this.
 
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