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Discussion Starter #1
I know some breeds have health problems associated with colors of their coat. Something about the gene that makes a certain color also carries a bad disease. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I'm sure someone on here is more of an expert than I am!

So I fell in love with these white collies:

http://www.garlindridgecollies.com/id41.html

The breeders say there are no health issues associated with the color, and I do trust them...I'm just doing my homework. :) I couldn't find anything myself, so I'm just wondering if anyone else has heard anything. It's such a beautiful color, IMO. I know it's not AKC-accepted (or whatever), but I'm still surprised they're relatively rare.
 

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White is an accepted collie color. They always have a colored head, which could be sable, tri or blue merle. Some have a completely white body while others have some spots of color.

From the AKC standard:

Color
The four recognized colors are "Sable and White," "Tri-color," "Blue Merle" and "White." There is no preference among them. The "Sable and White" is predominantly sable (a fawn sable color of varying shades from light gold to dark mahogany) with white markings usually on the chest, neck, legs, feet and the tip of the tail. A blaze may appear on the foreface or backskull or both. The "Tri-color" is predominantly black, carrying white markings as in a "Sable and White" and has tan shadings on and about the head and legs. The "Blue Merle" is a mottled or "marbled" color predominantly blue-grey and black with white markings as in the "Sable and White" and usually has tan shadings as in the "Tri-color." The "White" is predominantly white, preferably with sable, tri-color or blue merle markings.
 

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They don't seem to health test at all (unless I missed it). That's a BIG red flag.
Not every breeder that health tests will list the test results on their site, the ONLY way to know if they test would be to talk to the breeder.
 

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If you click on the pages for males and females, it lists the health test results of the individual dogs. You can also always look dogs up on the OFA website..
 

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My understanding is that as long as they're not double merles (which those dogs aren't, from what I can tell) there are no specific color-linked health problems. They exist in Shelties, too, as color-headed whites. They're not an allowed color in shelties but apparently crop up with some frequency, but they are allowed in collies.

I saw a link that somebody put up on Facebook about more truly solid white (and still not double merle) Collies being popular for a while in the 1920s. I'm not sure if that's true, but the pictures were interesting anyway.

I do recommend searching for the individual dogs on the OFA website if you're not sure if they check. I believe you can search on the CERF site too--or at least you used to be able to. I haven't checked in a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hmm, I'll check out the OFA website. It seems almost illegal for them to say they health test...but actually don't. Thanks for the tip!

These breeders also have a Facebook page, they're always posting photos of their dogs, any current litters, and they Friend people who bought puppies from them so they can post photos and videos, too. The breeders will say who the parents are of the dog in the photo/video. Some of the photos are puppies just sold from recent litters, some are adult dogs that they sold years ago. That HAS to be a good sign, right? That, plus the health testing...OFA for elbows and hips. genetics for CEA and the MDR1 gene. I'm not sure what else I can look for!
 

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The breeder we got our collie from has 2 gorgeous whites. I've always been more of a fan of tri's and merles in collies, but I can't deny the beauty of these two...
 

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I have a (mostly) white dog, but I'm not at all a fan of putting color high on a priority list as far as breeding or buying a puppy.
I will add to this statement...... Merlin's Breeder's, response when colors or markings are requested. You are buying a dog... You want to pick the color and trim, visit the nearest Chevy dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have a (mostly) white dog, but I'm not at all a fan of putting color high on a priority list as far as breeding or buying a puppy.
I will add to this statement...... Merlin's Breeder's, response when colors or markings are requested. You are buying a dog... You want to pick the color and trim, visit the nearest Chevy dealer.
Riiiight. That's obviously what this thread is about.
 

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I'm sorry, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to choose a dog that is pleasing to your eyes. If I'm paying a breeder all that money, you're damn right I want a CHOICE on which dog I get. Obviously temperament, compatibility and health are first and foremost, but if I had the choice between a black dog and a merle dog (temperament/compatibility/health taken into consideration), I would choose the merle hands down. Nothing wrong with black dogs, I just prefer the merle coloring. I don't see how this is any different than choosing a certain breed you want. Everyone has their own preferences.

Now obviously I wouldn't specifically ask a breeder to produce a certain color/markings, but if there's a litter in front of me, I'm going to choose the one that works for me. That means temperament etc, AND appearance.
 

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Blue Merle's are my color of choice in shelties but for me, health and temperament are so much more impirtaht than the color.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm sorry, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to choose a dog that is pleasing to your eyes. If I'm paying a breeder all that money, you're damn right I want a CHOICE on which dog I get. Obviously temperament, compatibility and health are first and foremost, but if I had the choice between a black dog and a merle dog (temperament/compatibility/health taken into consideration), I would choose the merle hands down.
Exactly. I've been on the waiting list for this breeder for almost 6 months now, and plan on getting my puppy roughly a year from now. I love the look of white collies. If there's pups in "my" litter with the right temperament and gender, the right health tests and parents, and one's sable and one's white...apparently I'm supposed to flip a coin to decide which one I'm taking home. Because if I purposely pick a white over a sable, then ohmygod. I'm buying a DOG, not a CAR.

Seriously, I have no idea where you guys got the idea that I'm going with color as the #1 priority. Or even a priority. I just said I loved the color, and asked if there were health issues associated with it, as I know health problems exist in certain coat colors (merle/merle, apparently).

90% of the time this board is great, but sometimes, you just have to raise your hands and slowly back away....like now.
 

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Personally I think it was very responsible that the OP even researched the color before just going ahead with a purchase. They obviously wouldn't put the color over the health of the dog (hence why they wanted to make sure it didn't cause problems like a double merle crossing) so I wouldn't assume they're choosing merely based upon color. I don't think it's wrong to have a color preference so long as it isn't blinding you from everything else about the dog. I think the majority of people look first for a marriage of prefered looks, health and temperament when it comes to finding the dog that's right for them, whether they want to admit it or not.
 

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All Collies no matter what color they maybe, must be tested. No one color of Collie can be illness free. PRA blindness, hip displaysia, seizures among others are common in collies. OP, if you do decide to go with this breeder, make sure they can provide all the necessary medical records and tests there dogs have gone through.
 

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White is an accepted collie color. They always have a colored head, which could be sable, tri or blue merle. Some have a completely white body while others have some spots of color.

From the AKC standard:

Color
The four recognized colors are "Sable and White," "Tri-color," "Blue Merle" and "White." There is no preference among them. The "Sable and White" is predominantly sable (a fawn sable color of varying shades from light gold to dark mahogany) with white markings usually on the chest, neck, legs, feet and the tip of the tail. A blaze may appear on the foreface or backskull or both. The "Tri-color" is predominantly black, carrying white markings as in a "Sable and White" and has tan shadings on and about the head and legs. The "Blue Merle" is a mottled or "marbled" color predominantly blue-grey and black with white markings as in the "Sable and White" and usually has tan shadings as in the "Tri-color." The "White" is predominantly white, preferably with sable, tri-color or blue merle markings.
but my only concern is they seem to be "ok" with breeding white to white, which as i understand it is a no no..... is that true?

I was going to rescue a collie from houston collie rescue but the vet references didnt check out with them :( they said not enough history on my dogs... who had (until Izze's accident) had only been to the vet for routine things (yearly shots & the like) i would have thought that would have been a good sign, that i cared for my dogs & was so successful in managing them that i didnt ever need a vet. :(.

I didnt want to go to a breeder bc i dont have the time for a puppy but seeing all those lovely pups makes me want one :/, there is another collie rescue in TX (texas collie rescue) would it be bad to contact them or to the rescues keep in touch? i dont wsant to look like a weirdo :/
 

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but my only concern is they seem to be "ok" with breeding white to white, which as i understand it is a no no..... is that true?
Isn't the white in Collies the same gene as piebald like in Papillons? There's no way not to breed whites to whites in Papillons and it doesn't cause any problems. Or is it caused by a different gene that has different effects? If it is the same gene as piebald, the only way it would cause health problems I believe is if there isn't enough color covering the ears, which can cause deafness. Which is why many breed standards that include piebald as a color require the ears to be fully colored at the very least.
 

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Riiiight. That's obviously what this thread is about.
But that IS what this thread is about. You're talking about getting a dog because you like the look. To each his own, but I advise against that. I've seen it turn sour; in fact, the prime example I can think of involved a very sickly white collie from stellar lines - parents had been tested for everything mentioned by masterjedi and more.

Chipin says that she doesn't see how choosing a color that you prefer is any different than choosing a breed that you prefer. I disagree. You should choose a breed that matches your lifestyle, not just one whose looks appeal to you. But color, well, that's all about looks.

Especially when it comes to herding breeds, I'm a purist on the issue of looks. I absolutely will not tell someone that their dog is beautiful. Herding dogs are not meant to be beautiful, they are meant to be functional. Putting their looks (for example, the fullness of the collie coat) above other considerations has deteriorated their function. Don't believe me? How many collies (rough or smooth, not border) do you know who actually do stockwork?

No one said that you were putting color above health and temperament. I can see that you are thinking through things. I can also see that I'm not going to change anyone's opinion on breeding/buying with a color preference, and I've already stated my opinion, so I'm done with this thread.
 
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