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What is your default training style?


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Discussion Starter #1
I have notice a bunch of people have different opinions outside of the clicker training positive stuff. More than I thought before. I'm just curious to see what percentage of people here actually use aversive techniques.
 

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I have notice a bunch of people have different opinions outside of the clicker training positive stuff. More than I thought before. I'm just curious to see what percentage of people here actually use aversive techniques.
There's not an answer there for me. I use a lot of clicker, a little body work type stuff, some classical conditioning, some relationship based work. But I do use things other than physical aversives which let the dog know that certain stuff will not be rewarded. I think the big misconception made by people who really don't have a clue about clicker training (including some who use it) is that it's not about letting the dog do whatever they want. It's about making them want to do the stuff you want them to do. If you are good at it, lessons are planned and consequences are carefully planned out. Positive does not = permissive. And run fast from anyone who tells you they are purely positive, because they are either prevarcating or a fool. By the way, MANY ecollar users consider themselves "balanced" trainers. In fact that's probably where I most often hear the term.
 

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I know of a few e-collar trainers around here refer to themselves as "positive methods only" trainers. The e-collar isn't an aversive, it's a gentle tickle to get the dog's attention!
 

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Clicker training is brand new for me. I am enjoying it so far. In the past and even now I would say I am more of the positive, not afraid to say no, and will not leash pop trainer. I have used a number of different things in the 49 years I have dealt with dogs........from chokers and even once an E-collar (I will never use it again) which is still lying dormant in my designated doggie training tool drawer. I have a prong and have not yet used it and probably never will unless absolutely necessary. I am more for positive methods. All in all I am a mish-mash of methods. Individual needs for individual dogs I say! :) I trained my first Dobie as a protection dog with all positive methods and he would stop on a dime on recall. The pup I have now.....I wouldn't even consider doing so. Totally different personalities-totally different training methods. :)
 

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I picked mostly positive, not afraid to say no, although admittedly I don't say it often lol. Im a pushover when it comes to Luke and thankful that he's so darn good I rarely have to worry about it :) I'm also one to believe that there is no such thing as purely positive with NO aversives ever...I don't buy it and I'd like to see some of these trainers who claim to train that way try it on Luke when he's in one of his moods.
 

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OK, well I'm one of those "99.999%" purely positive trainers. I try my darndest to eliminate any and all types of negativity in my dog's lives, the exception being a very occassional application of -P, or the odd well-placed NRM.

Go ahead. Crucify me if you feel so inclined, but in my case my approach certainly has proven to work very well, mostly in my dog's favour ! And, ... I find it difficult to dispute that. :D


Voted, ... #1.
 

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OK, well I'm one of those "99.999%" purely positive trainers. I try my darndest to eliminate any and all types of negativity in my dog's lives, the exception being a very occassional application of -P, or the odd well-placed NRM.

Go ahead. Crucify me if you feel so inclined, but in my case my approach certainly has proven to work very well, mostly in my dog's favour ! And, ... I find it difficult to dispute that. :D


Voted, ... #1.
I don't understand about crucifying program I have not read any replies that were crucifying Purely Positive trainers.
 

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I don't understand about crucifying program I have not read any replies that were crucifying Purely Positive trainers.
There seems to be some discrepancy defining, precisely, what constitutes a "purely positive trainer". I've even heard some people claim it to be a mythological beast.

Leaves me wondering ... :confused:
 

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I picked #2 ... but in a tight spot (I DO have a rottweiler and many are afraid because of the breed, so I make sure to always have her under control) I might use an occasional leash pop if she's completely focused on something and I need her attention NOW. But I do not train with leash pops...

I know of a few e-collar trainers around here refer to themselves as "positive methods only" trainers. The e-collar isn't an aversive, it's a gentle tickle to get the dog's attention!
It can be both or either ... I have seen some people using e-collars as you describe, but I have also seen others using it as an aversive with so much force that the dog screams.
 

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There seems to be some discrepancy defining, precisely, what constitutes a "purely positive trainer". I've even heard some people claim it to be a mythological beast.

Leaves me wondering ... :confused:
Yes, but isn't being online a journey into the land of discrepancy. Many things are not what they seem. Only the posters themselves know what is myth and what is not. I pretty much wonder about all posters and would assume that they also do some wondering.
 

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OK, well I'm one of those "99.999%" purely positive trainers. I try my darndest to eliminate any and all types of negativity in my dog's lives, the exception being a very occassional application of -P, or the odd well-placed NRM.

Go ahead. Crucify me if you feel so inclined, but in my case my approach certainly has proven to work very well, mostly in my dog's favour ! And, ... I find it difficult to dispute that. :D


Voted, ... #1.
Well if anyone could pull it off, it would be you. That I believe :)
 

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Yes, but isn't being online a journey into the land of discrepancy. Many things are not what they seem. Only the posters themselves know what is myth and what is not. I pretty much wonder about all posters and would assume that they also do some wondering.
Good point. I've often told people who are in online forums who ended up feeling like sub par owners somehow because they weren't as experienced or as "perfect" and all knowing as a lot of the posters in forums claim they are, that really at the end of the day? We have little to know way of knowing if ANYTHING they claim is true, and I've often found when it comes to human nature, many toot their own horn louder than they deserve :p
 

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I can't train myself not to occassionally say "uh uh" at my dog. I know it's an aversive, but I'm ok with that. And Coco is a very confident, happy dog. I use positive training though, but I've also been researching natural training, which uses the idea of play to reinforce good behaviors. It's kind of a new agey positive training that uses the dog's energy and reinforces the dog's natural instincts to allow for behavior that you like. I find it's less stressful for me, and so less stressful for my dog because play is a big part of training. I'm not so worried about keeping a strict training schedule. My dog might not be ready for obedience trials, but she's actually become much more responsive to me using some of the techniques.
 

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There seems to be some discrepancy defining, precisely, what constitutes a "purely positive trainer". I've even heard some people claim it to be a mythological beast.

Leaves me wondering ... :confused:
Not to worry - if you use an occasional P-, you are not a unicorn.
 

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<snip>
natural training, which uses the idea of play to reinforce good behaviors. It's kind of a new agey positive training that uses the dog's energy and reinforces the dog's natural instincts to allow for behavior that you like. <snip>
Using play as a reinforcer is a new age kind of training?
 

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I voted balance and traditional because you said no e-collars on balance, and I DO use E-collars as needed. for the most part I base on the dog and what I am teaching. as a general rule I will not restrict myself, I will try ANY methode. for Rusty a mix of mostly harsher negitive works best with praise and some rewards mixed in. for Happy play training and redirection works best, she thinks corrections are fun and starts repeating the bad behaviours with a grin on her face just to get the correction lol, clicker shaping it usless on her because she doesnt care enough, dont tell her what to do? fine, she's just as happy to leave. for Misty clicker training..and some ingenuity made up just for her works best..corrections either freak her out or she doesnt notice(depends what she is doing), Electra works best with strict dominance based stuff, not like corrections and pinning(which is what works best with Rusty) but in the sence of I have to act like a drill seargent, and treats he like she's in the military..she loves it lol, she doesnt respond to collar corrections or treats but she gets super exited and responds with a grin and wagging tail to me marching around speaking to her in short clipped demands lol
 

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If by training you mean going beyond teaching "sit" and also teaching appropriate behaviours (what to chew, etc), thenI think the best way for me and my small dogs is to couple positive reinforcement with some mild forms of punishment (Ex. saying NO in a stern voice and using time outs as a negative punishment). If I'm just teaching tricks, I only use positive reinforcement, but if my puppy is misbehaving, I do apply a correction (#2 form). I can't say I agree with harsher forms of positive punishment such as leash correcting and choke chains because my dog is young and quite small. All I do know is that I'll do everything in my power to ensure that my dog is stable and confident, and not fearful aggressive - which can result from owners inappropriately using positive or negative punishment, causing distrust and fear in the relationship.

In response to #1 (no correction, or aversive): I don't agree however with just ignoring all bad behaviour and only applying positive reinforcement. I'm assuming here that no correction/or aversion leaves only redirection and ignoring. Redirection definitely works in many cases, and ignoring barking and whining can be immensely effective, but ignoring a dog when it is chewing on your shoes, paper towels, garbage, jumping on furniture, etc, which a dog would most likely do at some point in their life, seems counterproductive. Why not take that opportunity to communicate with your dog that it's unwanted? That way you get to reinforce good behaviours from both sides, and your dog will realize that getting the reward for doing something good is much nicer than having to sit through a time out -
 
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