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What is your opinion on this study? RULES are YES/NO only please

2K views 24 replies 9 participants last post by  zimandtakandgrrandmimi 
#1 · (Edited)
will try again

1. Does the usage of a choke collar often result in the deliverly of a uncomfortable or aversive constriction around a dogs neck to include the trachea if not kept up higher on the neck. YES/NO


2. Is the squirting of liquids into a dog’s eyes or face to condition undesired behavior considered a aversive punisher? YES/NO


3. Does the usage of a Gentle Leader type head halter often result in using force training/management and aversive of any kind? YES/NO

4. Does the use of a Martingale type collar most likely result in the use of aversive force training/management? YES/NO

5. Can restraint be considered or used as a form of force management/training? YES/NO

6. Can one use verbal’s in a manner as to intimidate or correct a dog’s behavior? YES/NO

7. Can a correction to behavior result from a person administering one that is neither physically or physiologically aversive? YES/NO

8. Can a person always earn a dogs respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? YES/NO

9. Can a person always earn a humans respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? YES/NO

10. Do dogs communicate to each other primarily by the use of incentive based methods? YES/NO


any questions pertaining to definitions of word usage should be resourced in a dictionary...(edited) or in ones own definition.
 
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#4 ·
but therein lies an issue...

taking the term "respect" as an example again...

to me..in relation to dogs and dog training, the term "respect" has zero meaning. its irrelevant because it is undefinable to me. My dog may or may not "respect" me in the tradional sense but i have no concrete way of determining said "respect" and therefore the term is meaningless.

So I can't answer that question with any truth at all.
 
#5 ·
I've read "respect" as:

If a dog does what you ask him to do even if he'd rather do something else that he'd love to do, then that's a dog showing you respect.

Not the perfect definition, but it's something I can measure by Wally's reaction, and that's good enough for me. :)
 
#11 ·
I am not sure as to what the definition of normal would be by some,many, or most?
Me either - but you're the one conducting the study, so it's your criteria (assuming you have any in this regard) that matters.

You answered my question, thanks - I'll leave my answers then.
 
#15 ·
Re: will try again

Let me show you what Im talking about



1. Does the usage of a choke collar often result in the deliverly of a uncomfortable or aversive constriction around a dogs neck to include the trachea if not kept up higher on the neck.

In my opinion placement on the neckis generally irrelevant. The purpose of a choke collar is to constrict. Therefore whether high or low on the neck is irrelevant.


2. Is the squirting of liquids into a dog’s eyes or face to condition undesired behavior considered a aversive punisher?

Not just yes....squirting liquids on the eyes is in my opinion abuse.


3. Does the usage of a Gentle Leader type head halter often result in using force training/management and aversive of any kind?

Situationally.

4. Does the use of a Martingale type collar most likely result in the use of aversive force training/management?

Are we using the Martingale as it was intended to be used or are we using it as a choke collar?

5. Can restraint be considered or used as a form of force management/training?

What is meant by restraint? Are we talking physical restraint or are we talking simply not putting the dog in a situation that elicits the undesirable behavior? Both could be defined as restraint.

6. Can one use verbal’s in a manner as to intimidate or correct a dog’s behavior?

Yes.

7. Can a correction to behavior result from a person administering one that is neither physically or physiologically aversive?

Yes.

8. Can a person always earn a dogs respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation?

I already addressed my issues with this question.

9. Can a person always earn a humans respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation?

In my personal experience, yes.

10. Do dogs communicate to each other primarily by the use of incentive based methods?

yes
 
#17 ·
1. Does the usage of a choke collar often result in the deliverly of a uncomfortable or aversive constriction around a dogs neck to include the trachea if not kept up higher on the neck.
Yes


In my opinion placement on the neckis generally irrelevant. The purpose of a choke collar is to constrict. Therefore whether high or low on the neck is irrelevant.
Placement is not irrelevant and to make it sound so, is inaccurate. When placed incorrectly, there is also the risk of tracheal damage. The purpose of the training collar is not to constrict, it is to correct. As with anything, when used correctly, a training collar is very effective. The higher up on the neck it is placed, the better, in order to obtain maximum correction with minimum force. It goes without saying that when using a training collar, as with any adversive, timing is also an essential element.

Look at how dogs are presented in the show ring. The collar is high up on the neck, directly behind the ears. Not only does this show off the dog's structure, it is maximizing the handler's control with minimum effort.
 
#18 ·
Placement is not irrelevant and to make it sound so, is inaccurate. When placed incorrectly, there is also the risk of tracheal damage. The purpose of the training collar is not to constrict, it is to correct. As with anything, when used correctly, a training collar is very effective. The higher up on the neck it is placed, the better, in order to obtain maximum correction with minimum force. It goes without saying that when using a training collar, as with any adversive, timing is also an essential element.

Look at how dogs are presented in the show ring. The collar is high up on the neck, directly behind the ears. Not only does this show off the dog's structure, it is maximizing the handler's control with minimum effort.
I hear this side of the story and i have heard an opposing side that says the collar should be low.

but that wasn't the point of what I posted.

it is irrelevant to me whether the collar is high or low....it still constricts and causes discomfort and that is the intention of the collar.
 
#19 ·
1. Does the usage of a choke collar often result in the deliverly of a uncomfortable or aversive constriction around a dogs neck to include the trachea if not kept up higher on the neck. No answer. I don't use one and have not in years. Never worried too much about placement onthe neck when I did use one.. 15 years ago.


2. Is the squirting of liquids into a dog’s eyes or face to condition undesired behavior considered a aversive punisher? Yes but man oh man I don't recommend abusing any of your animals in this manner.

3. Does the usage of a Gentle Leader type head halter often result in using force training/management and aversive of any kind? Pass on answer because of the word "often"

4. Does the use of a Martingale type collar most likely result in the use of aversive force training/management? No answer due to Most Likely statement in question

5. Can restraint be considered or used as a form of force management/training? Well, 1/2 is yes and 1/2 is no because there are two questions here in one. Management and training are two different things

6. Can one use verbal’s in a manner as to intimidate or correct a dog’s behavior? Yes but there are two questions here too.. intimidating and correcting are two different results

7. Can a correction to behavior result from a person administering one that is neither physically or physiologically aversive? Yes

8. Can a person always earn a dogs respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? No answer. I don't know what dog respect is

9. Can a person always earn a humans respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? No but this is not to say that positive punishment gets it either... COLOR]

10. Do dogs communicate to each other primarily by the use of incentive based methods? No idea.. I will ask my dog.. Oh nutz.. she is fast asleep.. Wait.. I will ask the cat.. Oh I don't like that look he just gave me... I can see some positive punishment directed at me in the near future..
 
#20 ·
Re: will try again

1. Does the usage of a choke collar often result in the deliverly of a uncomfortable or aversive constriction around a dogs neck to include the trachea if not kept up higher on the neck. YES/NO
A choke collar is meant to be aversive, and I don't know any part of the dog's neck that is not susceptible to aversion so placement doesn't matter. Is it clipped to a leash? If so, who's holding the leash?

2. Is the squirting of liquids into a dog’s eyes or face to condition undesired behavior considered a aversive punisher? YES/NO
What dog are we talking about? Who's squirting the dog? What happens with the frequency of the undesirable behavior in the future?

3. Does the usage of a Gentle Leader type head halter often result in using force training/management and aversive of any kind? YES/NO
What is force training? What is force management? Head halters are meant to be aversive during the target behavior.

4. Does the use of a Martingale type collar most likely result in the use of aversive force training/management? YES/NO
Is it clipped to a leash? If so, who's holding the leash?

5. Can restraint be considered or used as a form of force management/training? YES/NO
I don't know what force management/training is.

6. Can one use verbal’s in a manner as to intimidate or correct a dog’s behavior? YES/NO
Yes.

7. Can a correction to behavior result from a person administering one that is neither physically or physiologically aversive? YES/NO
What definition of "correction" are we using?

8. Can a person always earn a dogs respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? YES/NO
What does respect look like?

9. Can a person always earn a humans respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? YES/NO
What does respect look like? What human(s) are we talking about?

10. Do dogs communicate to each other primarily by the use of incentive based methods? YES/NO
What are incentive based methods to dogs?

any questions pertaining to definitions of word usage should be resourced in a dictionary...(edited) or in ones own definition.
If we can make up whatever definitions we want, how does this constitute a study?
 
#22 ·
. Does the usage of a choke collar often result in the deliverly of a uncomfortable or aversive constriction around a dogs neck to include the trachea if not kept up higher on the neck. YES/NO


2. Is the squirting of liquids into a dog’s eyes or face to condition undesired behavior considered a aversive punisher? YES/NO


3. Does the usage of a Gentle Leader type head halter often result in using force training/management and aversive of any kind? YES it often does I would think.

4. Does the use of a Martingale type collar most likely result in the use of aversive force training/management? YES as that is what they are designed to do I believe.

5. Can restraint be considered or used as a form of force management/training? YES

6. Can one use verbal’s in a manner as to intimidate or correct a dog’s behavior? YES

7. Can a correction to behavior result from a person administering one that is neither physically or physiologically aversive? YES

8. Can a person always earn a dogs respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? NO

9. Can a person always earn a humans respect by the use of positive reinforcement only in any given situation? NO

10. Do dogs communicate to each other primarily by the use of incentive based methods? NO... They do not say to each other come on and play with me and I will share a bone with you. Thats the way I understand it.
 
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