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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A year ago I precious puppy came into my life. She had apparently been abandoned with no chip, collar or tag and had been hanging around the neighborhood for a couple of weeks. She was very weak and bony, and basically slept for two days straight when she came home with us. I had never seen a dog that looked anything like her, and I was curious as to what type of mix she could possibly be (I was assuming she was a mix). In my search I came across a photo of a dog that seemed to be the same breed as Ginger, a short haired Dutch Shepherd. I read half amazed at what seemed to describe a rare breed that was basically a super dog that could do anything. If a breed was so rare and so desirable, why would a puppy be abandoned? I still don't have an answer, but I have found other dogs like ginger up for adoption. For such an apparently rare breed, I was amazed at how much of the information available was contradictory and confusing. I joined the Dutch Shepherd Forum where my dog was deemed "not a dutch shepherd" and they kicked me off the site for "trolling" I have done more research since then and can say for certain the "experts" on that site dispense information that is highly suspect and they seem to have a zero tolerance policy on debate and opinions.
My dog appears to be a "Kruising Hollandse Herder", or a mixed-bred short hair. These dogs have been bred larger for police dog and other types of work and have malinois and some GSD in them. It seems to me some of the "American" dutch shepherd aficionados don't recognize these "Dutch" dutch shepherds as Dutch shepherds at all and their history is all a myth. I don't know why.
Anyone out there with experience with this breed that would like to discuss?
 

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Looking at your dog.. Nice looking dog and hard to see the body but I do not see Dutchie at all. In fact what jumps out at me is GSD/ Pit Mix.
 

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She's very cute. I don't see Dutch Shepherd at all, in neither coloring nor body type. I'd agree with a mix of some sort of bully mix with a more jowly face.
 

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And something is influencing the coat. That dog has a tight coat. Dutchies, Bel Mals, GSDs are all medium length double coated dogs. There is a single coated dog in there somewhere. Based on the color, the coat and other things, that all screams pit.
 

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We have trained some Dutchies at work and I'm going to have to say that your pup is not a Dutchie. Super cute, though!
 

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Seeing Dutch shepherds walk around regularly, I'll say your dog doesn't strike me as a Dutch shepherd. ;)

The kruising Hollandse herders you speak of are also referred to KNPV Dutch shepherds. They are an actual thing, you're right about that, it's not a myth. :) These dogs are not recognized as official Dutch shepherds and don't have FCI pedigrees, but KNPV dogs do have known lineages and their own pedigrees, though I do not know the specifics there. The dog will be written down as a 'Hollandse herder X' or 'Mechelse herder X' or 'Duitse herder X' to show it's not an actual Dutch shepherd or Malinois or GSD, but looks like one and is from KNPV lines, so has those dogs in its pedigree. These KNPV bred dogs are intense dogs with lots of character, bred for sport and work. If you can appreciate and work with their qualities, you can make them do most anything. :)

Even so, your dog doesn't strike me as a KNPV Dutch shepherd either, I'm sorry. ;)

I agree with JohnnyBandit. I wish those people on the Dutch shepherd forum were a little nicer to you though. I can see where your thoughts about your dog's origins come from.
 

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You have described your dog as being 90lbs with a mastiff temperament. I am leaning towards your dog having some sort of bully or mastiff parentage as I told you in another post. Your dog appears to have a tight, single coat, not just a short coat, and a lot of jowl.

The thing about the "Dutch Shepherds" for adoption is that most are not Dutch Shepherds. I see them all of the time here from rescue groups and shelters just like I see many other dogs mislabeled. I don't think it is done on purpose, they just guess a breed and slap a label on dogs. I recently saw a 30lb terrier mix labeled as a Dutch Shepherd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You asked me earlier why I asked you about my dog, it was because you seemed to have some knowledge on the subject. If what you say is true though, I'm still left with the mystery of what Ginger is. I've looked through thousands of pics and watched hundreds of hours of videos of DS's and, although I see the differences you speak of, I still see essentially the same breed. It seems logical because of the breeds rarity that she is something else, but I can't find any mix that looks as much like ginger as the DS. I've tried any mix of Akita, GSD, Pt, mastiff, etc and havent found one close. I would love to see a pic of a dog that looks like ginger that is not DS and see what type of mix it is, does anyone have one?
 

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You asked me earlier why I asked you about my dog, it was because you seemed to have some knowledge on the subject. If what you say is true though, I'm still left with the mystery of what Ginger is. I've looked through thousands of pics and watched hundreds of hours of videos of DS's and, although I see the differences you speak of, I still see essentially the same breed. It seems logical because of the breeds rarity that she is something else, but I can't find any mix that looks as much like ginger as the DS. I've tried any mix of Akita, GSD, Pt, mastiff, etc and havent found one close. I would love to see a pic of a dog that looks like ginger that is not DS and see what type of mix it is, does anyone have one?
I have seen dozens of dogs that looked like your dog, they are all over CL. They are just random mixes, mostly pit or mastiff and shepherd. The most recent was the terrier mix but she was considerably smaller and had tighter jowls.

ETA: I just googled pitbullxshepherd and found no less than 10 dogs that looked similar in image search.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Another problem is pictures, it seems very hard for me to get a pic that actually looks like Ginger does in person (Dog?). When Ginger's mouth is closed she looks much more pit like, but when she is say, panting, her snout and mouth look totally shepherdy and not at all pit like. I'm curious, can you post pics or links to the pics? I would like to see. One mixed dog I found recently that has striking similarities to Ginger is a Rottweiler/H.H.x cross. The brindle isn't as dutchie but the facial shape and expression is similar..interesting there is nothing obviously rottie though.
 

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i ssee no dutch shepherd. i had a solid brindle husky mix that a few people thought was a dutchie lol.
 

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http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad178/i_heart_dakota/Second/9thMemoryCard008-1.jpg
this one comes up as a mastiff x shepherd, there are quite a few others that look just like her body type but without brindle, or with ears that didn't quite stand. That is the trick with mixes, you never quite know what you will get.

http://www.nylabone.com/dog-house-chatter/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/DSCN4299-300x235.jpg
this one comes up for pitbull x shepherd notice the face is more shepherd.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6195/6150727733_16d8d929c1_z.jpg
another one that came up for pitbull x shepherd

These are just the first couple I grabbed that looked similar, there are a ton more. There are ones that look the same but in a different color (black, just brindle on the legs, seal or reverse brindle, more shepherd colors, ect). I also found some in Great Dane x shepherd. There are also some with slightly longer more "shepherdy" coat types or more pitty/mastiffy jowls but I didn't think those necessarily fit, also bigger ears, smaller ears and ears that didn't quite stand. I can't make any gaurantees about these actually being the breed they came up as but I can almost promise they are not actually Dutch Shepherds.
 

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Eh, mutts can end up looking like anything. You could find a dog of the exact same mix and he/she might not look anything like her! I like that uniqueness.
 

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Eh, mutts can end up looking like anything. You could find a dog of the exact same mix and he/she might not look anything like her! I like that uniqueness.
I could not agree more. The last litter of puppies we fostered could not have been more different. You would not have thought they were from the same litter.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/pet/4544833970.html
this guy popped up on CL locally, looks like your girl. He is a pitbull x shepherd.
 

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I'm going to have to agree with the rest, I don't see Dutch Shepherd at all. Maybe a Shepherd mix your cute dog is.

I know dogs can have a variety of different colors, but as far as I know Dutchies only come in black. I've never heard of a brindle coat before. Can they come in different colors?
 

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Dutchies are brindle, from dark to light. However they have a completely different body, coat, head shape, temperament and size than the OPs dog.

OP, I understand the desire to pinpoint what your dog is, but sometimes with rescues you just never know. I have mix breed dogs, I can't definitively pinpoint exactly what they are or what came from where in their genetics. That is just the way it is with mixes. My little chihuahua x poodle looks an awful lot like a shihtzu, except she doesn't really. In passing though, if I had no idea what she was, I could argue that she was in fact a very small, leggy, poorly bred shih tzu. It wouldn't make me right but gosh she looks more like my in-law's old shih tzu than any other dog I've seen pictures of.
 

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I'm going to have to agree with the rest, I don't see Dutch Shepherd at all. Maybe a Shepherd mix your cute dog is.

I know dogs can have a variety of different colors, but as far as I know Dutchies only come in black. I've never heard of a brindle coat before. Can they come in different colors?


Dutch shepherds only come in brindle, from very darkly brindled, so dark they almost look black, to brindled so light it almost looks like they aren't brindled at all. ;) Then there are the oddballs, like this purebred longhair Dutch shepherd named Google.


Google the longhaired Dutch shepherd

Rough coated Dutch shepherds may also come in pepper & salt.
 
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