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Personally, I'd never condone breeding mixes period. I've always found it strange that intentionally cross breeding is somewhat acceptable in the dog world. I'm a fishkeeper and it's a given that certain fish should not be kept in the same tanks as other kinds of fish for the simple reason that they will cross breed. Parrot fish are looked down on in most circles simply because they are hybrids. There are many fish keepers who will deliberately cull hybrid fry. It's interesting to me that in the dog world cockapoos, puggles, labradoodles and the like are intentionally bred for profit.
If people are breeding parrot fish, it's the same as breeding puggles. You don't like it, we don't like it, but someone likes it and is buying them. Or they wouldn't be making them.





It depends on the situation. If I'm at work, I usually just change the conversation. If it's a personal conversation, I take the same approach as Dogstar and ask what they do with the dogs (show, agility, field trials, etc) and about the health testing.

I had a good friend who still thought females needed to have one litter. Once I talked to him about the realities of breeding he had a very open mind and realized it wasn't a good idea at this time.
 

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Well, my neighbor announced the future breeding of his male Bernese Mountain Dog to a local female. Neither owner shows or competes with their dogs, but they have both had the relevant heath testing done. There are more takers for the puppies than there is any reasonable likelihood of puppies becoming available. Both animals have to-die-for temperaments.

I wished him luck. It's not the way I would go, but it's not the worst possible thing that could happen.
 

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I care because I feel a social responsiblity not to bring more dogs into a world where there will not be enough homes for them, and I believe that all people should feel that social responsibility. I care because I've been to every dog pound in my city (there are 3 of them) and I've seen what people's irresponsibility and selfishness has cost the animals there.
It's a social responsibility when you put it into practice, which you are doing it (not breeding dogs)
I still couldn't care that much.. i have enough thoughts put into my mind with my current dogs that actually need to be taken care of.
Sad as it may be, we are a long way to stop massive breeding, and it may also seem to be impossible, so the only way to stop this kind of breeding would be to take away all dogs without contracts(and rescues), euthanize them, and start all over again from reputable breeders, this way only people capable of buying dogs, and signing a contract would buy dogs, and have the dogs taken away if said contract was broken.
Drastic, i know, and it sounds awfull comming from a dog owner, but it has done with people too.(If this started some conflicts on your minds, i ask anybody to send me a PM instead of discussing it here:))
 

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I PASSIONATELY oppose all breeding bans and such laws, and will fight them with everything I have.

I don't like the breeding of mixes, but if it is done, by say CCI (service dog provider) I don't care. And, I really don't care if it's done for performance dogs (such as http://www.coltriever.co.uk/) as those dogs are going to good homes to do agility and obedience. It just doesn't bother me.
 

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I generally ask them if the show or work there dogs and what type of testing they have done on there dogs in a nice manner.I have been on the receiving end of some really psycho nuts around here and there views on breeding ANY dog and would not put anyone through what has been said to me (and I show,health test ect...) and right in front of my children.I have had people try to jump my fence to take my dogs because they "feel" that no dog should be bred and that it is there social responsibility to save every dog they know about .I guess I should just expect it to come with the area where I live...one reason I want to move from this state.

I also am strongly opposed to mandatory spay/neuter laws (and the so called guidelines that most of these have are impossible for a hobby/show breeder to fulfill so they basically support large kennel situations.)
 

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All I would likely say is ask "Do you have good homes for them or will take care of the puppies yourself?"

After all, that's the important thing - where the dogs will end up going.

My beliefs on who should breed what and when are irrelevant. Where the dogs go and the quality of their lives is all that really matters, imo.

If they mention they don't have set homes, I'll probably suggest they should first, whether they are selling them or not - find a GOOD place for the pups before you create them.
 

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Personally, I'd never condone breeding mixes period. I've always found it strange that intentionally cross breeding is somewhat acceptable in the dog world. I'm a fishkeeper and it's a given that certain fish should not be kept in the same tanks as other kinds of fish for the simple reason that they will cross breed. Parrot fish are looked down on in most circles simply because they are hybrids. There are many fish keepers who will deliberately cull hybrid fry. It's interesting to me that in the dog world cockapoos, puggles, labradoodles and the like are intentionally bred for profit.
In most livestock (horses, for example) crossbreeding is not looked down on at all, it's actually considered quite normal. Neither is it so taboo with cat breeding (some 'cat breeds' are actually mixes). The dog world is actually much more against it than is average in the 'animal husbandry' world. I don't know what the attitude towards it is for rodent or bird breeders, though.

All I would likely say is ask "Do you have good homes for them or will take care of the puppies yourself?"
After all, that's the important thing - where the dogs will end up going.
My beliefs on who should breed what and when are irrelevant. Where the dogs go and the quality of their lives is all that really matters, imo.
If someone was making mixes, but had homes lined up, all genetic tests done, and would take back any pups they made if they didn't work out, I wouldn't be against them either. GOOD breeders keep their dogs from contributing to the shelter overpopulation problem and do their best to create healthy dogs, bottom line. It's wrong when amateurs do it thoughtlessly and do not provide for the pup's best interests, unfortunately that is what the majority of mix breeders are.
 

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Depends on the situation

I give them advice

I ask them if I can have a pup

I tell them to learn about it and that I wouldn't breed those dogs

Off topic Oh my jesirose is that beautiful brindle pit pup a new addition??? Gorgeous!
 

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Off topic Oh my jesirose is that beautiful brindle pit pup a new addition??? Gorgeous!
Yep! Does she look like a pit to you? We're not sure. Supposed to be an apbt x but we're not sure with what. Her hair is a bit long I'm told to be apbt and she's small. (12 lbs @ 11 weeks)

Got her 3 weeks ago :)


I know in rats there are certain colors you can't cross breed similar to the lethal genes in dogs, but afaik people aren't trying to cross for example the domestic norwegian with ASF. I don't even know if that would work! But there is still the problem of bad breeders just like in dogs. There are people who only breed for color and not temperment or health :(
 

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It's not an issue in rodents, since 'breeds' don't really exist. Purpose-bred lab animals aren't generally cross-bred though, because the traits that are typically the purpose of breeding (immunodeficiency, tumor formation, a specific health condition for lab work, etc) are the result of inbreeding to fix the trait.

In pet birds, it's a MAJOR issue. Most of the macaws will crossbreed if given the opportunity, and this hurts the captive genepool, which is quite small for some species, and wild imports are banned for conservation reasons.

In domestic poultry, it's yet another issue. Most production birds are crossbred (terminal crosses which won't reliably reproduce their traits but will be good performers as meat birds with high FCR or egg layers with extreme production in a relatively short period).

Crossbreeding in the horseworld is, I would say, iffy- it's not as frowned upon as breeding crossbred dogs, but it's not looked upon well by many people. There are some part-bred registries, but there are other breeds where crossbreeding your stallion will get you kicked out of the registry. There are breeds where crossbreeding to a purpose has produced fantastic performers (for example, most of the European warmbloods that function on an inspection system and allow in part TBs) and others where it's resulted in cute/pretty horses that are adorable but very poor performers (gypsy vanners - the UK colored cobs are fantastic; the American imports are basically useless hairy pets with HORRIBLE gaits, upright fronts, and no kind of performance records to justify the 35K pricetags.)

I think that it is, in theory, possible to be a responsible breeder of hybrids. Some people specify that you should be starting out with show quality versions of the parent breeds, which I'm not sure is accurate. I don't think that show traits are so important (basic soundness, yes, but a head that's not great or a tail carriage that's poor isn't a huge issue) but health testing absolutely is- and not just a single generation of testing, but MULTIPLE generations.

I think it's difficult to be a responsible breeder of purebred dogs, though, too. I think that some of the difficulty in there is that some of the 'good breeder checklists' basically make it impossible and were not written up by people who were familiar with what goes into breeding. If you breed for the standard and not to win in the ring (or if you have a preference for a certain color that is untrendy, or you like the larger or smaller end of the breed standard when judges tend to reward the other extreme), you're going to have a harder time getting titles on dogs. It's MUCH harder to title intact bitches in performance if most of your events are scheduled at certain times of year.
 

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Yep! Does she look like a pit to you? We're not sure. Supposed to be an apbt x but we're not sure with what. Her hair is a bit long I'm told to be apbt and she's small. (12 lbs @ 11 weeks)

Got her 3 weeks ago :)
Oh I see now reading underneath it. Yes I thought she was an APBT. Could be mixed it is just not easy to tell with pups and a mix can look pure at times. Hard to see her hair but Pit hair length depends on the bloodline and genes they get. That is neat she is about the same age/size as mine. My girl is 10lbs, buckskin brindle red nose. Do you have more pics. She is super cute. Does she have a red nose also.

Here is mine, though I will have to get my new pics uploaded. She is buckskin brindle red nose.





 

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It's not an issue in rodents, since 'breeds' don't really exist. Purpose-bred lab animals aren't generally cross-bred though, because the traits that are typically the purpose of breeding (immunodeficiency, tumor formation, a specific health condition for lab work, etc) are the result of inbreeding to fix the trait.
I meant rodents as in Fancy Rats and pet rabbit breeds. I dunno much about mice or guinea pigs, if they have different breeds as well.

I think that some of the difficulty in there is that some of the 'good breeder checklists' basically make it impossible and were not written up by people who were familiar with what goes into breeding. If you breed for the standard and not to win in the ring (or if you have a preference for a certain color that is untrendy, or you like the larger or smaller end of the breed standard when judges tend to reward the other extreme), you're going to have a harder time getting titles on dogs. It's MUCH harder to title intact bitches in performance if most of your events are scheduled at certain times of year.
I agree totally there.
 

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Even in rats there aren't really breeds per se. There's fancy varieties like dumbo, harley, satin, etc - but they're all recessives and the gene pools are so small that no responsible fancier breeds them only to themselves.
 

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Buckskin is tan with yellow tones
Fawn is tan with red tones

Zahava is looking a little more fawn almost, I can see some red in there. But she is so yellowish that buckskin is more appropriate, her stripes are actually more reddish-brown not base coat. Very similar to Hadley though. Hadley's stripes look a little darker close to chocolate, I thought Zahava's would be like that, hers were darker before.

Here you can see her eyes
 

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I like the second person's answer, which was to ask them if they've been to the local animal shelter. Some people noted that lecturing just makes the person more angry and set in their ways, but I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people do things like this because they really are just ignorant. I guess I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I think if you really talk to someone sincerely about why you think it's ethically wrong to BYB, you might convince them. You probably won't, but there's a chance you might. Also, even if they do just act hostile about it, if enough people express disapproval they may change their ways out of sheer peer pressure or embarrassment.

Personally, every time I see an intact male dog I get a little angry. I think there is absolutely no reason not to neuter your pets unless you are a good breeder or showing. And there are, proportionately, very few people who meet that description.

When I was little, my family had a neighbor with a small defunct farm. He was elderly and his "farm" was mostly a big mud hole. He had a bunch of feral cats living in his barn and every year they had several litters of kittens. And you know what this guy did? He collected them in sacks and drown them. Over and over again. So when I was twelve my father and I put humane cat traps over there at night and went back at 3am and collected the cats. Then we took them to a vet (we had to find one who would handle feral cats) and got them spayed and neutered. We had to do this five times before we got them all.
And I'm so glad we did that.
I know some people reading this are going to take issue with me over this, or think it's kind of extreme, but I sometimes I honestly wish I could kidnap peoples' dogs and spay/neuter them. If I have a neighbor in the future who is a BYB, I think I might actually do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Cantelope, I know some people would tell you that you and your dad violated the man's property. But I think what you did was great. If you get SO upset by someone thinking your animal needs to be spayed then you're thinking more of yourself than the animal's welfare. Sure, maybe a lot of dogs don't need to be fixed. But what if your dog gets out? What if someone lets it out? (I've seen that one several times) There are lots of ways for puppies to be concieved that are not in our control. Spaying and neutering is a preventative measure, in my mind. It doesn't automatically mean your dog would've had puppies, but I think it makes you responsible to go the extra mile to make sure that doesn't happen.
 
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