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I mean. That's okay? You don't have to be impressed. My point was - and still is - that you can work a bitesport dog without shock collars - or any correction - and do it quite successfully. Whether or not you're personally impressed, she's competitive at Nationals with quite high scores on her dogs. Just pointing out that e collars are a choice, not a necessity, in 99% of training. Including venues where they're still in frequent use by high performing dogs and trainers.
I mean.

The judges are impressed.

And the judges are who's opinions matter, so.
 

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Um.

Okay.

Should've left ignore on, I guess.

1-) I never said WHAT sport this puppy was being raised for. I can't do that, because I don't know. It's being raised for sports. Foundations are pretty universal.

2-) Agility is about balancing obstacle focus and handler focus. Handler focus is more important, over all. Because... being focused just on the obstacles means the dog's just stuff without stimulus control, off course and going to lose. Badly. Drive for agility is not 'drive for obstacles' anyway. That's nonsense. There is no drive to do an a-frame in any breed, anywhere, because that's NOT WHAT DRIVE IS. Drive to chase things, sometimes, sure, or get the reward you're using, or maybe even finding movement itself rewarding, but there is no 'obstacle drive. I mean it may be, and likely is, using the drive differently but drive isn't FOR the obstacles.

3-) I know, you can totally tell biting isn't at all part of the make up of breeds and has never been selected for in breeds commonly used in protection sports by the way mals and GSDs are so soft mouthed as soon as they have teeth. Wasn't my point, anyway. My point is it's a determined, hard biting, hard going puppy that stilll didn't make me think 'you know what I need here? A shock collar'.

4-) How long are training sessions? I don't know 3 seconds through 15 minutes, maybe, if you count start to stop including play breaks and other activities, instead of any individual period of time working.
 

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It's also true, though, that a lot of people don't choose a dog for obedience work. They take the dog they have to an obedience class and then decide what the heck and try for a title. So you see a nervous handler in the ring with a beloved pet, both stressed by the environment. The same dog may glide through the exercises at home with a much happier attitude.

And some people don't train well or don't train enough, but I bet almost everyone who trains at all benefits from strengthening the bond with their dog.
Basically my thoughts as well. There are people who get dogs in order to compete, and there are people who practice formal obedience (or other dog sports) in order to train the dog they have. For the former, obviously you want to go get a dog that's highly temperamentally and physically suited to the sport. But if someone has a dog that's a touch flaky or timid or aloof or whatever, and they manage to kindly build them up and develop a partnership to the point that they're able to successfully perform, I think that's fantastic. The goal in that case isn't really the Qs, the goal is to improve the dog's safety and quality of life by getting it to be handler-oriented and confident enough to behave well and keep an even keel even in challenging environments and situations. They might look less gonzo when competing, but they're still probably night and day from where they started out.
 
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