[4lilmunchkins]

I was wondering what the general consensus is on here concerning vaccines? Up until about two years ago I'd never given them much thought really...I always just went with what my vet recommended and assumed they knew what was best. I eventually started doing some research into vaccines and can't say that I really liked what I found...

My dogs are a small breed and indoors the majority of the time, I never board them, and I groom them myself. I am now of the feeling that once that have had all of their puppy shots and the first year adult boosters that I only have them vaccinated once every three years (as it's required by law here) for their rabies vaccination and have titer testing done yearly for the rest of their vaccinations. So far, their titer testing has not shown any of their other vaccination levels being low enough that requires "re-vaccination"

I've never had any horribly reverse reactions with any of my dogs concerning vaccines, I just, personally, don't feel good about giving them booster vaccines every year after the research I've done and I'm wondering if I'm in the minority here?

I'm not saying those of you who do vaccinate your dogs yearly are wrong by any means, I think it's a personal decision that you have to make for your own pet...I'm just wondering if there are any other people out there who feel pets are largely being over-vaccinated and have chosen not to vaccinate their pets yearly but to have titer testing done instead?

 

[Pai]

I'm a firm believer in minimal vaccines. WAVA and vets like Jean Dodds and Dee Blanco have done great work in trying to educate vets and owners with the newest scientific data.

I think the best way to sum it up is: the immune system of mammals works the same across species. HUMANS do not need yearly boosters for the entirety of their lives, and neither do dogs. Once you find out that the entire tradition of 'yearly shots' was started on ZERO scientific evidence, and that many vets use that just to get people to come in every year for their checkups, things start falling into place.

That, plus all these scary auto-immune vaccinosis diseases I've been reading about. Very disturbing. Overmedicating our pets is as unhealthy as neglecting them -- there has to be balance. Cancer rates and autoimmune diseases in dogs have skyrocked in the past 25 years or so... that alone makes me very wary of putting chemicals into my dog unless they really need it. Most people do not know that things like mercury and formaldehyde are in vaccines. I know certain vaccines have been proven to cause injection-site cancer in cats.

Titer testing is not always properly understood either, though. They actually mean the most only after a puppy has finished their initial round of shots, to see if they had a proper immune response to the vaccines. The're also good for diagnosing certain things like Lepto.

 

[3212]

At the clinic I work at we tailor our vaccine regimen to each dog/cat. If they have reactions we either don't vaccinate, do them every 3 years and always use allergy prevention first. I think it depends on the dog and it's exposure too.

Bridgette gets bordetella every 6 months, DHPPC every year and RV every three years. We only do all three because she comes to work with me often and I could easily bring things home with me.

My cats are indoor only and are fully vaccinated for the same reason.
ETA: My male kitten will actually be getting his vaccines spaced apart and every three years (if at all) because he has had a mild reaction.

Depends on the dog though I think. Although I pretty much recommend at least DHPPC (and obviously Rabies), but I know a lot of people on here do not vaccinate at all.

 

[Pai]

See, I'm not anti-vaccine myself. I understand that because of vaccines, dogs have safer lives now than in the past. But as they say, 'too much medicine is as bad as no medicine at all'.

 

[Trainer]

Bridgette gets bordetella every 6 months, DHPPC every year and RV every three years. We only do all three because she comes to work with me often and I could easily bring things home with me.

How often she goes to work with you or where you work has no bearing on the need for vaccines. Once she has had the puppy shots and maybe a 1 year shot, she is immune forever. Giving her shots every 3 years does not make her more immune. Either a dog is immune or he isn't and your dog is immune for life.

Titers is not a reliable test for immunity. Titers tests for antibodies and dogs can be immune without antibodies.

Some people may be afraid to say it but I'm not ... people who vaccinate every year or even every 3 years is putting their dog at unnecessary risk. You should research dog vaccinations and read the latest research.

 

[Willowy]

I give my cats their kitten series and a booster in a year. That's it for life---although if I can find a vet that will sign off on 3- or 4-year rabies vaccine, I would like to do that for legal reasons. But, like Trainer said, either the animal is immune from the first adult vaccine or it isn't, and extra vaccines aren't going to do any good.

The main thing that changed my mind about vaccines is that the 1-year and even the 3-year recommended intervals are NOT based on ANY scientific data! NONE! They just said, "well, lets vaccinate the dog and see if he's immune in a year", and of course the dog was still immune in a year so they decided to sell it as a yearly vaccine. Once health problems started popping up from yearly vaccines, they tried 3 years, and of course the dog was still immune, so they went with that. But nobody has ever done a study to see exactly how long the vaccine DOES last. Although I think there's a rabies challenge study going on, and it started in 2000, and, last I heard, the test dogs were still immune in 2008. Hopefully that study will make a difference.

Unfortunately, I do have to vaccinate my dogs according to the vet's schedule because I have to board them occasionally. My vet's vaccine schedule for dogs is every other year for the core vaccines. Since the boarding kennel requires Bordatella vaccine, I get them the intranasal vaccine, since I feel that's somewhat safer than the injectables. I wish I didn't have to, though .

 

[K8IE]

Coop will be on limited vaccines and 3 year rabies (required by law here) starting this year. We will do titers. I also do not use pesticidal flea and tick prevention, but use natural things. I hate the thought of pumping him full of things that are not necessary.

 

[Trainer]

Unfortunately, I do have to vaccinate my dogs according to the vet's schedule because I have to board them occasionally. My vet's vaccine schedule for dogs is every other year for the core vaccines. Since the boarding kennel requires Bordatella vaccine, I get them the intranasal vaccine, since I feel that's somewhat safer than the injectables. I wish I didn't have to, though .

Fortunately, there is a way around most of that stuff. I order vaccines online, save the receipt and empty bottles and tell the interested parties that I give my dogs the injections myself. That works for all except rabies which must be given by a vet. The others don't. Of course I empty the bottles.

I rarely have to do that because it's not often I board my dogs or otherwise need to "prove" vaccinations.

 

[Jessieanne]

I dont like getting my pets vactinated to much either. My mom had a dog that only had shots up to 3 yrs and she is doing perfectly fine at 13.

 

[4lilmunchkins]

I'm a firm believer in minimal vaccines. WAVA and vets like Jean Dodds and Dee Blanco have done great work in trying to educate vets and owners with the newest scientific data.

I think the best way to sum it up is: the immune system of mammals works the same across species. HUMANS do not need yearly boosters for the entirety of their lives, and neither do dogs. Once you find out that the entire tradition of 'yearly shots' was started on ZERO scientific evidence, and that many vets use that just to get people to come in every year for their checkups, things start falling into place.

That, plus all these scary auto-immune vaccinosis diseases I've been reading about. Very disturbing. Overmedicating our pets is as unhealthy as neglecting them -- there has to be balance. Cancer rates and autoimmune diseases in dogs have skyrocked in the past 25 years or so... that alone makes me very wary of putting chemicals into my dog unless they really need it. Most people do not know that things like mercury and formaldehyde are in vaccines. I know certain vaccines have been proven to cause injection-site cancer in cats.

Titer testing is not always properly understood either, though. They actually mean the most only after a puppy has finished their initial round of shots, to see if they had a proper immune response to the vaccines. The're also good for diagnosing certain things like Lepto.

I agree with you on pet vaccines, to be honest with you, I don't necessarily agree with human vaccines either...I've never had a vaccine in my life and I am 100% healthy and always have been so...yet, Doctors would've have liked to have given me two dozen plus vaccines by now and would had my Mother not been so set against it when I was a child. To a point I understand the "theory" behind vaccines...it's just the lack of evidence to back the theory's up that concerns me.

I mainly do titer testing just to have an idea as to where their levels are at and it makes my vet feel more comfortable about not giving them the "regular" vaccines if I do that. I do agree with you though, titer testing alone, cannot always be a reliable source as it can show that they "need" a vaccine, when in fact, they probably don't.

At the clinic I work at we tailor our vaccine regimen to each dog/cat. If they have reactions we either don't vaccinate, do them every 3 years and always use allergy prevention first. I think it depends on the dog and it's exposure too.

Bridgette gets bordetella every 6 months, DHPPC every year and RV every three years. We only do all three because she comes to work with me often and I could easily bring things home with me.

My cats are indoor only and are fully vaccinated for the same reason.
ETA: My male kitten will actually be getting his vaccines spaced apart and every three years (if at all) because he has had a mild reaction.

Depends on the dog though I think. Although I pretty much recommend at least DHPPC (and obviously Rabies), but I know a lot of people on here do not vaccinate at all.

That's nice that your clinic tailors vaccines to your client. I absolutely love my vet, very intelligent guy and he's been a Doctor for 30+ years, he has so much knowledge to share but, concerning vaccines he is pretty much set in his ways of what he was taught and I think I'm about the only person at the clinic that doesn't comply with "normal" vaccines so he sort of gives me a hard time about it. He does feel better about my not vaccinating them if I give them a titer test every year, which I do...I do wish he was more open minded concerning vaccines though...I love every single thing about that place with the exception of that...

See, I'm not anti-vaccine myself. I understand that because of vaccines, dogs have safer lives now than in the past. But as they say, 'too much medicine is as bad as no medicine at all'.

Well, I think there's a time and place for vaccines, I think a completely un-vaccinated dog is not a good thing...I just think over all, vets make you feel like you NEED to vaccinate your pet all the time and I really don't think they need all those things in their body..."you are right though, too much medicine is as bad as no medicine at all" it's finding that middle ground that can, sometimes be a difficult thing to do...

I give my cats their kitten series and a booster in a year. That's it for life---although if I can find a vet that will sign off on 3- or 4-year rabies vaccine, I would like to do that for legal reasons. But, like Trainer said, either the animal is immune from the first adult vaccine or it isn't, and extra vaccines aren't going to do any good.

The main thing that changed my mind about vaccines is that the 1-year and even the 3-year recommended intervals are NOT based on ANY scientific data! NONE! They just said, "well, lets vaccinate the dog and see if he's immune in a year", and of course the dog was still immune in a year so they decided to sell it as a yearly vaccine. Once health problems started popping up from yearly vaccines, they tried 3 years, and of course the dog was still immune, so they went with that. But nobody has ever done a study to see exactly how long the vaccine DOES last. Although I think there's a rabies challenge study going on, and it started in 2000, and, last I heard, the test dogs were still immune in 2008. Hopefully that study will make a difference.

Unfortunately, I do have to vaccinate my dogs according to the vet's schedule because I have to board them occasionally. My vet's vaccine schedule for dogs is every other year for the core vaccines. Since the boarding kennel requires Bordatella vaccine, I get them the intranasal vaccine, since I feel that's somewhat safer than the injectables. I wish I didn't have to, though .

There's a lot of things about vaccines that just don't add up...the fact that my 2-5 pound dogs get the same amount of a vaccine as someone's 100 pound great dane, has NEVER made any sense to me at all....

I am really hoping the rabies challenge fund will start to change some things very soon!

 

[Pai]

My personal opinion (how I visualize this issue) is to compare it to animal testing.

You know how they take a rabbit's skin and eye, and put chemicals or ingredients into them, over and over, in high doses, until the rabbit develops a health problem? Even though the chemical or ingredient, in smaller doses, doesn't do harm by itself? It seems the same to me with vaccines.

Our pets have been like lab animals, getting repeated vaccines over and over (which humans do not get) to the point where they are showing health problems because of it. Only getting a few vaccines would not generally have such an effect (though some individuals are allergic, etc). It's because of that constant overdose that an otherwise helpful thing is causing so many problems now. Also, because for many years vaccines were seen as harmless and only able to do good, so they were never examined or questioned, but I think that belief is being shown wrong in recent years.

People need to be more thoughtful and careful about vaccines, instead of just assuming that nothing bad can happen from them.

 

[hanksimon]

My current dog is 8 years old, and we just started doing the 3 year shots. The last time we gave him shots, all at once, he got sick and disoriented, maybe a fever. The previous dog sometimes got sick from the 3 year rabies shots.

In any case, my current dog is up for shots in April, and the Vet suggested a two week staggered schedule... We'll see.

- Hank Simon

 

[jnite]

The book How to Afford Veterinary Care without mortgaging the kids is a great book and I highly recommend it.
There is alot of talk in it about vaccinations and other things. I think it comes down to common sense. If we would just stop and think about things before we believed what the vets said we may be wayy better off.
Not that I'm knocking vets, they have thier place. But I think too often it is about the money not the best for the animal.

 

[4lilmunchkins]

http://www.vet.bc.ca/site/view/54226_Basicimmunology.pml;jsessionid=34nj9lpnsiw3

There are some interesting articles here concerning basic immunology in pets and also an interesting article on titer testing...thought some of you might enjoy reading these as well...

 

[Pai]

http://www.vet.bc.ca/site/view/54226_Basicimmunology.pml;jsessionid=34nj9lpnsiw3

There are some interesting articles here concerning basic immunology in pets and also an interesting article on titer testing...thought some of you might enjoy reading these as well...

Great article, thanks! =)

 

[blackrose]

I'll just ask this question here, since it relates to the topic:

Chloe is going to be due for her annual vaccinations next month. She's had all of her puppy shots and her three year rabies (I do believe).

I really do not want to continue vaccinating her unless she needs it. Over her puppyhood she had really bad stomach problems, and I always thought it was her food...and while it might still be, I also think the vaccinations had something to do with it, because the time she stopped the vaccines (and when I switched her food) she got better. I don't want to risk her having an allergic reaction to a vaccination she doesn't need.

Blackie and Rose haven't been vaccinated in about two years now, but they have had yearly boosters all of their lives so I'm not concerned.

What would be my best course of action to take with Chloe?

 

[Trainer]

If she were my dog, I wouldn't give her any more shots except for 3 yr rabies that is required by law. If I could find a way around the law I would do that.

 

[Pai]

Well, once the Rabies Challenge gets over, most states will probably move to every 5-7 years eventually. Something to look forward to.

 

[blackrose]

If she were my dog, I wouldn't give her any more shots except for 3 yr rabies that is required by law. If I could find a way around the law I would do that.

Should I have a titer test done on her just in case, or just not do anything? After reading some of the articles posted, is a titer test worth it?

 

[AkiraleShiba]

I don't vaccinate anymore (except rabbies) and I don't do titters because he's only 1.5 years old, maybe after 3 to 5 years will do one just to see but I don't think it's completly necessary,

Have you ever had titters for any of your human vaccines ? Probably not . That's my train of thought for my dog.