Joined
·
1,634 Posts
http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2012/02/westminster-rewards-cruelty.html
SHAME ON THEM! SHAAAAMEEEE!!!
SHAME ON THEM! SHAAAAMEEEE!!!
Westminster rewards cruelty
1 - 20 of 214 Posts
Joined
·
55 Posts
The very epitome of pretentious people.
It's not the show's fault, I don't think they can turn away entries based on ethics. If they could a lot more dogs would likely be excluded! I can think of some kennels that produce masses of dogs, yes they show them, but still, not ethical IMO.
It's the akc and the breeders, the akc for not seeing past the dollar signs and wanting money from puppy mills etc. that breed registered dogs, and the breeders. There's a lot of breeders who will agree to what testing should be done to better the breed, but would scream 'unfair' at the thought of those being manditory and not their option to do.
In some kennel clubs, like the KC in England, a merle/merle breeding would not be registered. Other kennel clubs go further with temperament testing and such, you can't breed unless your dog passes. AKC just wants one clearance, the payment for the papers.
It's the akc and the breeders, the akc for not seeing past the dollar signs and wanting money from puppy mills etc. that breed registered dogs, and the breeders. There's a lot of breeders who will agree to what testing should be done to better the breed, but would scream 'unfair' at the thought of those being manditory and not their option to do.
In some kennel clubs, like the KC in England, a merle/merle breeding would not be registered. Other kennel clubs go further with temperament testing and such, you can't breed unless your dog passes. AKC just wants one clearance, the payment for the papers.
Joined
·
19,031 Posts
How would the judge know that that dog had a double merle sire?
I don't have to say that I think producing double merles in most breeds is atrocious. I've posted enough anti double merle breeding posts that I'm sure people know where I stand on that. I did know that the collie was the son of that dog and was saddened by it when I saw him. But really there is no way to tell if a dog's sire is a deformed double merle. A double merle bred to a solid will produce perfectly normal pups.
RTA: Now, I do think there should be something done to prevent the registration of dogs like Avalanche and his progeny in the first place.
I don't have to say that I think producing double merles in most breeds is atrocious. I've posted enough anti double merle breeding posts that I'm sure people know where I stand on that. I did know that the collie was the son of that dog and was saddened by it when I saw him. But really there is no way to tell if a dog's sire is a deformed double merle. A double merle bred to a solid will produce perfectly normal pups.
RTA: Now, I do think there should be something done to prevent the registration of dogs like Avalanche and his progeny in the first place.
Joined
·
7,761 Posts
^This, including the last line.
Put the blame where it belongs on this one -- the breeders intentionally breeding double merles, and the people breeding to the double merle and therefore supporting the practice. I don't think the double-merle sire should not be registerable, but really people, especially experienced people, should NOT have to be told they shouldn't breed merle to merle.
I totally agree, I think kennel clubs today should have rules in place to prevent unethical/unhealthy breeding practices. But time and time again I hear breeders say 'I know it's wrong and I'd never do it myself or agree with anyone doing it, but it shouldn't be a rule that we can't do it, nobody should tell me who I can and can't breed!'....
Joined
·
13,098 Posts
I completely disagree with the title of the article.
While people may know individual dogs, nobody knows the parents of every dog (not all breeding dogs are exhibited in conformation) or the circumstances behind the breeding.
The judge awarded a Collie he/she thought was deserving. End of story.
While people may know individual dogs, nobody knows the parents of every dog (not all breeding dogs are exhibited in conformation) or the circumstances behind the breeding.
The judge awarded a Collie he/she thought was deserving. End of story.
Joined
·
10,573 Posts
I believe the breeders are clearly unethical, that's something for their BREED CLUB to penalize, not the AKC.
Is this dog worthy of winning BOB? He's certainly a beautiful dog, I don't know the breed well enough to say whether he's correct conformationally or not, that's something the judge WILL know however and I'll have to take his decision as this dog is more correct than the others being shown in the ring at the time.
And finally THIS. Unless the judge knew the breeder, how would he know who the sire was.
Is this dog worthy of winning BOB? He's certainly a beautiful dog, I don't know the breed well enough to say whether he's correct conformationally or not, that's something the judge WILL know however and I'll have to take his decision as this dog is more correct than the others being shown in the ring at the time.
Joined
·
10,573 Posts
Yeah, sounds like a pro-PETA tag line to me.
Joined
·
10,573 Posts
Not neccesarily, the fact is there are a HELL ofa lot of people in the know that are coming out and questioning the ethics of the breeding.
Also, the reason it sounds so Pro AR to me and others is because this is ONE dog, in ONE breed, NOT the whole show and yet other, very ethical breeders and WKC itself is being painted with the same brush.
Also, the reason it sounds so Pro AR to me and others is because this is ONE dog, in ONE breed, NOT the whole show and yet other, very ethical breeders and WKC itself is being painted with the same brush.
In all competitions, the people who win are those who are willing to do anything to win. If they see someone win by doing something unethical (and getting away with it), there may be some who will not follow suit. . .but many will. It's human nature.
If they expressed their concerns in a less insulting manner, would those people listen then? Probably not. Nobody listens to what they don't want to hear.
Joined
·
6,451 Posts
I still fail to see how this is westminster's fault? The judges don't know the dogs, so how did "westminster reward cruelty"?
Joined
·
2,405 Posts
Quoted for truth.
Joined
·
13,098 Posts
Maybe not. But they're more likely to.
Every time somebody insults my breed, I am no longer inclined to listen to them. They may have something of value to say, but I'm not going to listen to them degrade my dogs. I love my dogs, and try to do the best I can for them.
Many people here know how much I want to change things in my breed, but I cannot do it by myself, and the more people try to FORCE others to see that they are right, the longer it will take.
There's a big hullabaloo going on in the GSDCA right now due to a recent board decision that was made to allow all dogs with DQ faults take PC (parent club) awards in performance. If people can't agree on that, or that white dogs deserve to be exhibited in conformation too, what makes others think that they can put out glaring exposes, call breeders nasty names, and then expect REAL change?
Joined
·
7,761 Posts
Having read a lot of the BorderWars stuff over the years, I would say that the title is not so much AR as Anti-AKC. It might be used by AR, yes, but the owner of the BW blog is most definitely NOT a PETA type. If you read the whole piece I think it's more that he's saying AKC and CCA could have and should have kept the offspring of this dog from being in the ring in the first place, and therefore they failed and are de facto rewarding it. Also, he's being sensationalistic. But the heart of the text and the related blogs blame the breeders involved.
Which should also not be confused with breeders in general, before anything heads down that path.
Which should also not be confused with breeders in general, before anything heads down that path.
1 - 20 of 214 Posts
