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We have 2 dogs 18 months and 9 months.

The 9 months is crazy and the older is getting bad on a leash, didn't start off like that.

Looked at different ideas. We don't want to do those chain collars that have the spikes. Our neighbor loves her and she has a little Boston Terrier, ours are bigger. We have harness for then instead of using the collar.

Have anyone tried those head leash, the ones that go around the snout. They look like what you use on a horse. Do they work??

I know we need to get them out more but our neighborhood isn't the easiest for walking them. Don't want to do a dog park because I had an issue once before. A dog came after mine the second we walked in.

Just wondering if those items really work or if it just will be a matter of time. I've never had to train a dog regarding walking. Mu husky was trained when I got him.
 

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Continue to use the harness and train your dog to walk nicely. This is a great video on teaching loose leash walking.

I don't like the head harnesses because of the potential to seriously wrench the dog's neck if they decide to go out to the end of the leash suddenly. I would recommend training the dogs separately, clearly the older dog is picking up bad habits from the younger.
 

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I personally use an english slip leash. It has worked wonders for my crazy 6 month old.
 

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I personally use an english slip leash. It has worked wonders for my crazy 6 month old.
That's essentially a choke chain. It will stop certain behaviors, but only because it makes them painful, and there's the potential for damage to the trachea, esophagous and spine. There's also the potential for fallout. Essentially, if the dog experiences pain when it sees another dog (or a child, or a bike), it will believe that the dog (or child, or bike) caused the pain and become fearful/aggressive towards other dogs (or children, or bikes). The video that I linked to explains how to train a dog to walk nicely without the potential for injury or fallout.
 

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I have used prongs, gentle leaders, and a variety of other management tools. At the end of the day you do have to train your dog, since they can pull through anything if they are determined. But I also don't have a problem with managing the situation sometimes.

Lots of dogs find the Gentle Leader very annoying. It can take a while to get a dog used to it. It does seem to bring dogs down a notch, which is sometimes exactly what you need, but other times not so great. My dog is still getting used to it, but I only tend to use it in very high energy situations where taking him down a notch is useful. I wouldn't use it for our regular walks.

I use the prong most of all. I agree that it's not good if you have a reactive dog, as it can make them more reactive. But used properly it's no worse than most other things. The reason that these harnesses and things work is because they are aversive at some level.

I agree with walking them separately until you can get them under control. Mine are both pretty good by themselves, but one person walking both of them requires a lot more patience and skill as they learn to walk together.
 

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That's essentially a choke chain. It will stop certain behaviors, but only because it makes them painful, and there's the potential for damage to the trachea, esophagous and spine. There's also the potential for fallout. Essentially, if the dog experiences pain when it sees another dog (or a child, or a bike), it will believe that the dog (or child, or bike) caused the pain and become fearful/aggressive towards other dogs (or children, or bikes). The video that I linked to explains how to train a dog to walk nicely without the potential for injury or fallout.
I always keep it right behind the ears and loose. I dont choke to correct her, I touch with my foot the area between the back thigh and rib cage. A harness doesnt work for me, it only made her pull more because the way it goes on the body, however I do use this for rollerblading, scooter and biking
 

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I personally use an english slip leash. It has worked wonders for my crazy 6 month old.
I dont choke to correct her, I touch with my foot the area between the back thigh and rib cage.
So ... which is it that works, the slip leash or the mule kick ? Or both ?

Myself I don't consider feet to be a respectful nor effective way of communicating to the dog. Well, other than "beware of human feet: they're unpredictable, sometimes scary/dangerous, and they hurt when they just come at me out of the blue".

The slip lead that's kept high up on the neck but supposedly loose, the kick that is conveniently labeled as just a 'touch'. Honestly this all sounds way too .. CMish for my liking, personally speaking. Are you a devotee by any chance ?
 

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So ... which is it that works, the slip leash or the mule kick ? Or both ?

Myself I don't consider feet to be a respectful nor effective way of communicating to the dog. Well, other than "beware of human feet: they're unpredictable, sometimes scary/dangerous, and they hurt when they just come at me out of the blue".

The slip lead that's kept high up on the neck but supposedly loose, the kick that is conveniently labeled as just a 'touch'. Honestly this all sounds way too .. CMish for my liking, personally speaking. Are you a devotee by any chance ?
Mule kick is rather harsh. I absolutely DO NOT EVER kick my dog, I said touch because that is exactly what it is, it snaps the brain out of what it was doing and brings her attention back to me.
Myself personally do not think you are in a position to be making accusations of what you think I do. You arent the one to spend countless hours with my dog, you dont know what she is like, you dont know what I am like. Every dog is different and some believe it or not, not every dog responds to a super soft touch, my dog being one of them. High up on the neck is the perfect spot for a leash because down low where the collar causes them to choke much worse. I do keep the leash loose but high up to maintain her focus, nothing wrong with that, I have done so much research on walking a dog and I know how to do it. Many professional trainers use slip leads and their dogs have no problems. I love my dog more than anything and if I ever hurt her, I would hate myself. And what do you mean by devotee?? And what does CMish mean? I am sorry to be rude, but you cant just assume I am abusive because I correct my hyperactive dog in the nicest way I have studied, that works for her. I would love to send her to your house and let you try and train her.
 

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CMish = Cesar Milan-ish

Devotee means someone who follows another person's morals and methods etc, passionately, and often blindly without much consideration for other schools of thought.

Honestly, I'd love to take your dog and train her. Or better yet, show you other, less aversive ways of training her to walk nicely. But unless you're right close to where I am, it's just not practical.
 

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I have watched him and do like some of his stuff, but also dont agree with a lot of it.
Then I am not a devotee, I have done so much research for myself on many different methods. Tried a lot of them and am still studying every day.
If you have other ways then please do tell me, I am open to anything. But I will assure you I have tried multiple walking ways and this is the only one that has worked.
Like I said I dont want to be rude, but you could have said what you said way differently, like you could have given me advice FIRST instead of beat me down. I am only a student and a first time dog owner, please dont make any more false accusations and lets just let this go.
 

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Sassy was LLW trained a bazillon ways. What worked best for me was using a waist leash so my hands were free. I had 75 pounds of dog that couldn't pull me off my feet at the time, evaluate whether it is safe for you do do this with your particular dogs! Start in the street so there are no things to lunge at and wait for dogs to look at you, treat them. I used a clicker but a marker word is fine. Lean forward, dogs will probably lunge to the end of the leashes. Lean back and wait for them to look at you, c/t. Lean forward again and c/t if they don't lunge. Drop the treat at your sides or feed from hands at your sides as you want to reward in the position you want them walking in. Continue in those minute increments remembering to treat for good behavior. Both dogs have to be behaving and both dogs always get treated although I have used smaller treats for the obnoxious one if I was really annoyed! You aren't waiting for them to hit the end of the leash or walking backwards to train although you will do that in the course of getting good manners, you are looking for loose leash and checking in and rewarding that. I just walked my current two dogs this way this morning. Took a dozen cookies to go the first 5 feet and by the time we reached the end of the street we were going 10 steps per cookie. Both dogs were introduced to this separately but this was the first trip where I worked them together insisting on LLW. The waist leash is 3' long, after they get it they will go back to the 6' leads so they have more freedom.

Another odd thing that helped LLW was changing my mindset. I was seriously annoyed with sniffing dogs, drove me nuts. When I switched from impatiently counting seconds and pulling or recalling them away from the sniff to praising them when they were leaving the sniff on their own they stopped sniffing so much. I used those favorite bushes and trees to train, they weren't allowed to approach pulling but they were rewarded for leaving the sniff rather than recalling away from the sniff. Mindset shift that really helped me.

If a dog is focusing on something and going to blow then walk backwards and reward a check in, I will get it. I don't need to refocus the dog using my foot. A tight or jerked leash won't give me focus, makes the dog more interested in what I am preventing dog from getting to and dog gets more anxious. I find that good dog trainers are very actively working to get the dog to behave. Move your body rather than move the dog. Walk backward, in circles, turn this way and that to get the dog focused on you rather than the car/bike/skateboard/cat/squirrel/scary hat/dog-eating trailer/sign/sprinkler head/duck/blowing leaf/burrito and other interesting things out there. You will look an idiot and non dog people will think you have completely lost your mind and probably won't be able to see the minute good things you are rewarding.

DogtorWho15, I found Andra Arden's silly looking book, "Train Your Dog the Lazy Way", extremely helpful. It looks ridiculous but waiting for good behavior works. My JRT screamed and lunged to get out for walks and simply waiting him out stopped that nonsense in a couple sessions. He found plenty to scream and lunge at during walks I still needed to work on but at least I got out the door without blasted ears. I got over the idea that walks meant going somewhere and realized that walks really mean quality time with my dogs. Probably get better exercise from all the dancing around than walking in a straight line anyway!
 

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Sassy was LLW trained a bazillon ways. What worked best for me was using a waist leash so my hands were free.
I've found this helps with Watson too, but I haven't been consistent. When I'm holding the leash, there is a certain amount of give as I extend my arm (even if I didn't intend to extend it) and I think that reinforces him to keep pulling. When the leash is fixed to something that won't move, like my torso, it is more clear for him and he's less persistent in trying to lunge.
 

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I've found this helps with Watson too, but I haven't been consistent. When I'm holding the leash, there is a certain amount of give as I extend my arm (even if I didn't intend to extend it) and I think that reinforces him to keep pulling.
Omg. Let me tell you, Luna's LLW has gotten SO much better since I've been the one walking her 95% of the time. When my bf used to walk her, he'd put her on the long line and let it out a bit if she wanted to sniff something just out of reach, or reel it in a bit if they went through tight quarters.

I kept trying to explain that the inconsistency of how far she was able to go was making her walking on the normal 6' leash worse, but he wouldn't listen.
 

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Omg. Let me tell you, Luna's LLW has gotten SO much better since I've been the one walking her 95% of the time. When my bf used to walk her, he'd put her on the long line and let it out a bit if she wanted to sniff something just out of reach, or reel it in a bit if they went through tight quarters.

I kept trying to explain that the inconsistency of how far she was able to go was making her walking on the normal 6' leash worse, but he wouldn't listen.
Yeah, that's really true. I typically walk them on 10ft leashes, because we have the space, but it does cause problems if you're inconsistent. Watson has gradually learned to keep it slack no matter how much I give him, but it gets harder the further away he is from me. So a really short leash he is good, but once he's out at 10ft he's much more likely to pull.

And my husband is horrible about giving them more leash after they pull on it to get to something. Just decide how much leash they can have for this portion of the walk and let them have that.
 

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The formula I've generally settled on is if she pulls (for me I qualify that as pulling to where I need to provide resistance to stop her/hold her back) I stop and wait for eye contact before moving again. In certain situations I'll provide a bit of resistance on the leash just as a reminder that I'm there and she will generally settle right down again.

She is pretty good in that she doesn't pull for the sake of pulling, but it's like if she sees something she gets excited about checking out she forgets that I'm attached to the other end of the leash, lol. So providing that bit of resistance is like "Oh yea, I forgot you were there, sorry bout that" and then we continue together.

In the beginning I did use treats fairly consistently to mark good behaviour, and I still will use them on longer walks where we're more likely to come upon distractions. (I shamelessly lure past high level distractions on walks like nobody's business) But for basic potty walks I skip them because I'm lazy. This method has more or less worked out for us. her LLW isn't perfect, but it's at a level that is acceptable to me.
 

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The formula I've generally settled on is if she pulls (for me I qualify that as pulling to where I need to provide resistance to stop her/hold her back) I stop and wait for eye contact before moving again. In certain situations I'll provide a bit of resistance on the leash just as a reminder that I'm there and she will generally settle right down again.

She is pretty good in that she doesn't pull for the sake of pulling, but it's like if she sees something she gets excited about checking out she forgets that I'm attached to the other end of the leash, lol. So providing that bit of resistance is like "Oh yea, I forgot you were there, sorry bout that" and then we continue together.

In the beginning I did use treats fairly consistently to mark good behaviour, and I still will use them on longer walks where we're more likely to come upon distractions. (I shamelessly lure past high level distractions on walks like nobody's business) But for basic potty walks I skip them because I'm lazy. This method has more or less worked out for us. her LLW isn't perfect, but it's at a level that is acceptable to me.
^This!

Sassy didn't look at me but leaned on the leash so she knew where I was, really irritating, and I didn't have a clue as to how to stop it for YEARS.

Ginger who came home to me only 2 years ago taught me the importance of checking in. She was so good at checking in I could drop her leash before she even knew me and she'd come to me for a cookie rather than run off.

Love checking in and want all my dogs to be able to do it but learning how to be proactive rather than reactive when training was the key for me. Mark and treat when dog is doing what you want rather than allow them to do things you don't like and try really hard to ignore the things you don't like and prevent them from happening again. As in don't sweep an ant covered chicken nugget out of your dog's mouth and let her pick it up 2 more times. Okay Ginger is a terrific dog that always drops goodies she finds but a chicken nugget is a chicken nugget.
 

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On another forum someone recommended marking/clicking tension on the leash, then backing up and throwing a little party. I tried it last night with Watson and it worked very well! Not that he's a horrible puller in daily walking situations, but he was leaning into the collar a bit and it totally fixed that. I'll need to try it in more exciting situations.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
All of your replies were great. My boyfriend agree that we need to just get her out more. Well both more and alone because I can so see them feeding off of each other. I know the perfect place to start. There is an area,road, that goes along a cemetery to a small development. Very little traffic so that may work the best.
Keeping the leash short and using commands and treats (reinforcement) to help. Then move on to together and then more public. Callie is hyper so starting there I think would be better for her at lest.

Chewie was normally really good at the pet store. If she started to get away just me whistling would bring her back to me, so I'm going to work off that too.

If there are issues then I'll look into the head leash only as a last choice. but I can get Callie to sit and wait for her food so we should be able to get her to walk better. And Chewie learned her left and right is a few minutes so it's just spending some time with her and with out Callie. She is learning bad habits from the puppy.

Been so busy that we backed off on some training, WE need to get back with it and stop whining.

I'll also look int these books/methods talked and about and see what might work too.

Tks
 
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