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One of the most common training methods to discourage jumping is to turn your back to the dog. All reward trainers and websites tell you this. So, has anybody actually had success teaching their dog to not jump using this method?

In my experience this method has been essentially useless. Even with a back turned the dog will still jump; it seems that jumping is a self rewarding behavior for most dogs. It seems most dogs just don't get the message, and if they do, it's a pretty weak message. Also, the timing is all jacked up because most people take too long to turn around. I use a different reward based method that gets the point across more clearly.
 

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If all you did is turn your back, that's likely why it didn't work. The key is to ignore herbs dog until the INSTANT all four feet are on the floor THEN reward the dog with what he wanted in the first place, your attention. Didn't take Kuma long at all to figure out that the best way to get what he wanted was to keep all four on the floor.
 

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One of the most common training methods to discourage jumping is to turn your back to the dog. All reward trainers and websites tell you this. So, has anybody actually had success teaching their dog to not jump using this method?

In my experience this method has been essentially useless. Even with a back turned the dog will still jump; it seems that jumping is a self rewarding behavior for most dogs. It seems most dogs just don't get the message, and if they do, it's a pretty weak message. Also, the timing is all jacked up because most people take too long to turn around. I use a different reward based method that gets the point across more clearly.
yup. I've seen dogs "get it" in three repetitions. Frequently. It's important for this exercise that the dog is on leash, so when the person exits the dog's space, the dog can't follow. And of course attention and treat when the dog sits or has four on the floor is the second part of it.
 

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yup. I've seen dogs "get it" in three repetitions. Frequently. It's important for this exercise that the dog is on leash, so when the person exits the dog's space, the dog can't follow. And of course a click and treat when the dog sits or has four on the floor is the second part of it.

This isn't the method I'm talking about. I'm talking about simply turning your back to the dog, not walking away. I discovered on my own, no thanks to the internet and Victoria Stilwell and my books, that walking away works much better.
 

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And yet, as I said, and you seem to have ignored, making like a tree and ignoring the dog until all four are on the floor works beautifully, IF you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping.
 

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And yet, as I said, and you seem to have ignored, making like a tree and ignoring the dog until all four are on the floor works beautifully, IF you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping.
Yep, as Kuma'sMom said the key is to reward them with the attention they really want as soon as all four paws are on the floor/the dog sits. Worked pretty quickly with my guy for me to simply ignore him when I walked in, usually after work so I'd just keep walking into the house and sorting through the mail. As soon as he stopped jumping on me I'd acknowledge him with a verbal greeting, continue into the kitchen to toss the junk mail then go sit on the couch and give him a big happy greeting with lots of attention. This taught him he gets NO attention for jumping on me and to wait calmly until I'M ready to fuss all over him. Almost 2 years after bringing him home he might hop around really excitedly when I get home waiting for me to sit down and greet him but he's NOT jumping on me. If I recall correctly within about 2 weeks of starting this he was getting pretty good about it, within 2 months he was 95% on it. This was also really important with him because he came to me VERY mouthy so his jumping was accompanied with not so gentle mouthing. The mouthing was probably the hardest behavior to get under control with him, jumping was easy.
 

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And yet, as I said, and you seem to have ignored, making like a tree and ignoring the dog until all four are on the floor works beautifully, IF you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping.

Didn't ignore what you said, just didn't understand the "key is to ignore herbs dog" line and so I didn't respond. That said, if you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping, aren't you creating a behavior chain? Jump - jump - jump - sit - reward. I'm not arguing with the results you or dagwall have had, I trust your success.
 

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if you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping, aren't you creating a behavior chain? Jump - jump - jump - sit - reward. I'm not arguing with the results you or dagwall have had, I trust your success.
I guess it really depends on the dog but I'm inclined to believe behavior chains are more likely to happen with food rewards than attention. Depends on what motivates the dog the most but I haven't heard of that happening. Doesn't mean it can't, just never heard of it.
 

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It worked for my puppy. We're still having a bit of trouble with my mother, because everytime Bones jumps up she wants to toss her a treat. But she doesn't jump on me or my dad anymore.
 

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Didn't ignore what you said, just didn't understand the "key is to ignore herbs dog" line and so I didn't respond. That said, if you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping, aren't you creating a behavior chain? Jump - jump - jump - sit - reward. I'm not arguing with the results you or dagwall have had, I trust your success.
But, you could say you are creating a behavior chain with many situations with that logic, right? I mean, if you are trading up, don't you run the risk that the dog (if smart enough) will decide to start taking things just to get the better treat when asked to trade? And, if the dog is on the couch (let's say you are trying to teach them NOT to be) and you say "off" and they get the treat for getting off the couch, isn't there the chance they will get back up on the couch in order to be told "off" and get the treat again?

There are many situations where the reward COULD create a chain, however, I think there are ways to prevent that, such as, breaking the chain by distracting them with numerous commands AFTER they are rewarded, to prevent them from going right back to the unwanted behavior. So, for jumping, when you reward for "four on the floor," you could go right into a couple other commands, like "sit" (treat), "down" (treat), "stay" (treat), then maybe a quick game of tug or what have you, so that going right back to jumping is the farthest thing from his mind.
 

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It worked well for one of my dogs, didn't work so well for the other. I guess just like with everything, it depends on the dog. The one it worked on is very sensitive to us, so when we ignored him and showed him we were disappointed, it really bothered him. The one it didn't work well with is much more independent.
 

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And yet, as I said, and you seem to have ignored, making like a tree and ignoring the dog until all four are on the floor works beautifully, IF you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping.
Ignoring can extinguish a behavior, but it takes patience. I prefer the on-leash, walk away briefly version of this exercise. I think it is clearer to the dog. I HAVE seen a few dogs create a behavior chain of jump up, sit pretty and wait for treat. The first thing they have to do to get the treat is jump up.
 

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I guess it really depends on the dog but I'm inclined to believe behavior chains are more likely to happen with food rewards than attention. Depends on what motivates the dog the most but I haven't heard of that happening. Doesn't mean it can't, just never heard of it.
That's because food is more valuable and the dog is trying to figure out what will get paid. Sometimes by poor timing, poor training strategy, people end up creating behavior chains they didn't mean to create. But in general a dog who can chain behaviors is a better learner than one who can't. I LOVE behavior chains and use them all the time.
 

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I do this all the time at work. I think it works.

I ignore the dogs(s) until they have four on the florr and then praise/pet. I also teach my dogs up and off so they do have time that they can jump but they have to "ask permission". All of this is done without food rewards.

I would make them sit instead of ignoring them but some dogs don't even know sit(yeah, seriously) and some get freaked out as if it's a poisoned cue.

of course my daycare dogs still get way to excited when I show up but all but one of them now resist temptation to jump on me. The one that still jumps... Well that's my fault because I spoil her.
 

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One of the most common training methods to discourage jumping is to turn your back to the dog. All reward trainers and websites tell you this. So, has anybody actually had success teaching their dog to not jump using this method?
Worked wonders for Wally.

He wants to jump up, I back up and turn away. He was like WTF? And started whimpering a little. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw him sitting and then turned around and patted my legs for him to jump up.

I kept doing this (and eventually he stopped whimpering) and it became a habit. Now, his tail is wagging like it's about to fall off and he's looking hard at me, but those paws stay on the floor and/or he sits and hopes for the chance.
 

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Ignoring can extinguish a behavior, but it takes patience. I prefer the on-leash, walk away briefly version of this exercise. I think it is clearer to the dog. I HAVE seen a few dogs create a behavior chain of jump up, sit pretty and wait for treat. The first thing they have to do to get the treat is jump up.
Well, I never used treats for this. Kuma jumped because he wanted my attention, so I used attention as a reward. No pats or even talking to him until all he stopped jumping, and then he got rewarded with attention, no treats involved.
 

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Didn't ignore what you said, just didn't understand the "key is to ignore herbs dog" line and so I didn't respond. That said, if you reward the dog the instant it stops jumping, aren't you creating a behavior chain? Jump - jump - jump - sit - reward.
No because if jumping WITHOUT the signal to do so causes me to withdraw my attention, why would he do it again? It's like any other negative punishment.

If it's:

Sit/Keep Paws on Ground -> Get Jump up Signal -> Attention from person
Jump without signal -> Person turns away and ignores me

And I apply this consistently until it's a conditioned pattern - he isn't going to jump then sit because jumping up first gets him nothing. So his first action on seeing me is going to be to keep his paws on the floor and/or sit.

It's like with shaping really. If he makes 10 mistakes before getting the first step right, the next time we do this, he's not going to do 10 things before step 1. He's going to do the first rewarded thing he remembers, step 1.

If chaining worked like you describe, I would have no idea how shaping could work at all since every chain would have all the mistakes in it as well.
 

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No because if jumping WITHOUT the signal to do so causes me to withdraw my attention, why would he do it again? It's like any other negative punishment.

If it's:

Sit/Keep Paws on Ground -> Get Jump up Signal -> Attention from person
Jump without signal -> Person turns away and ignores me

And I apply this consistently until it's a conditioned pattern - he isn't going to jump then sit because jumping up first gets him nothing. So his first action on seeing me is going to be to keep his paws on the floor and/or sit.

It's like with shaping really. If he makes 10 mistakes before getting the first step right, the next time we do this, he's not going to do 10 things before step 1. He's going to do the first rewarded thing he remembers, step 1.

If chaining worked like you describe, I would have no idea how shaping could work at all since every chain would have all the mistakes in it as well.
THIS!! Thank you KBLover!
 

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It's like with shaping really. If he makes 10 mistakes before getting the first step right, the next time we do this, he's not going to do 10 things before step 1. He's going to do the first rewarded thing he remembers, step 1.

If chaining worked like you describe, I would have no idea how shaping could work at all since every chain would have all the mistakes in it as well.
As I stated before, when one creates unwanted behavior chains, it's usually because they are working with poor timing/poor strategy. Chaining isn't *supposed* to work that way. But sloppy training can make the dog think we want chains that we don't. And it does happen fairly frequently. You have to factor the anticedent in there. What's the first thing the dog has to do to get wanted attention/treats? I suspect you haven't run into this because A) you haven't worked with a lot of dogs/people and B) because you really do think about training strategies and analyse your steps. Many people aren't that naturally fastidious.
 
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