Using electric shock collars

53733 Views 367 Replies 60 Participants Last post by wvasko, May 27, 2011

hunter22375

Discussion Starter · May 3, 2009

When would you consider a suitable age to begin using any sort of "shock" correction collar on a dog. This includes manual correction, bark collars, wireless fences, ect. Is this in relation to age, size, or what? I have reached a point with my dog where he is getting more and more independant and the usual training methods are starting to not work. Any help concering this question would be greatly appreciated.

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Cheetah

· #2 · May 3, 2009

I guess that depends. What are the usual training methods?

I know for me a shock collar would be a last resort, but some would consider it to be a useful tool for certain things such as hunting etc.

Curbside Prophet

· #3 · May 3, 2009

What are "usual training methods". For your needs it would be prudent to have your "usual training methods" evaluated by a certified dog trainer. A shock collar, and how you intend to use it, would be considered a latter resort. With management and effective training methods you may not need to consider using this devise.

Marsh Muppet

· #4 · May 3, 2009

I would consider 6 months to be the minimum age, but some dogs mature later and require more time. JMO. The point, however, is largely moot because the dog has to be well trained before the remote collar is introduced.

If the "usual methods" are not working, you need better methods; not better tools.

FourIsCompany

· #5 · May 3, 2009

If you tell us what your dog is doing then maybe we can make suggestions that you haven't tried.

To answer your question, I can't think of a situation that I'd use a shock collar in. I don't have anything against them, I just haven't ever needed one. But I probably would use it on a dog younger than a year.

hunter22375

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 3, 2009

Lets just say for the wireless fence portion. My first dog was 5 years old before I used a wireless fence collar. He learned very quickly and easily. However, I have 2 new younger dogs and although I'm sure I can get them to recognize the boundaries of the yard through repetition....its the actual and inevitable shock that comes from the collar I'm worried about and how it will effect them.

FourIsCompany

· #7 · May 3, 2009

If I was worried about a training method having a negative affect on my dog, I simply would NOT use it.

hunter22375

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 3, 2009

FourIsCompany said:
If I was worried about a training method having a negative affect on my dog, I simply would NOT use it.

A wireless fence isn't a training "method" per say as it is a containment system for the safety of the dog, family, and legal purposes. So, lets please stay focused on the original question. It's obvious you do not approve of ANY shock based training so please allow others with experience in this area to comment on the appropriatness of the age of a dog to begin using the wireless fence, which includes the use of a collar that delivers a corrective shock.

With that said, if you have personnaly used a wireles fence...what age was the dog when you first began to use it? I don't believe the collar will actually have a negative effect physically on him (as I know of smaller dogs that use them) however, I have read that using a collar that delivers an electric shock on too young of a dog can have a negative emotional effect. So, I'm trying to determine a rough estimate on what the average age that this threshhold is. Thank you.

Curbside Prophet

· #9 · May 3, 2009

hunter22375 said:
A wireless fence isn't a training "method" per say as it is a containment system for the safety of the dog, family, and legal purposes.

I hope you don't have a Husky.

He used an electric fence btw.

hunter22375

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 3, 2009

Curbside Prophet said:
I hope you don't have a Husky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCXLXcSTd4

He used an electric fence btw.

LOL....no he's a lab. Very even tempered and willing to learn. That video is hillarious.

dakotajo

· #11 · May 3, 2009

well I went out and bought the remote training collar with the warning beep and 10 level controls. I used it on myself first and at about 7 I could sure feel it! We have big issue with her jumping on people and digging. We tried everything with the jumping and it's getting worse and the digging is not out of boredom, she loves to dig! I put the collar on her for awhile first before I tried which level would work for her, she was oblivious to all until about level 6 which she just looked around in curiousity and that's as far as I've gotten. I was going to try the training today and would you believe the girl hardly jumped today! So I haven't really used it yet. We have been telling her "OFF" command instead of "DOWN" which was suggested to me so who knows, maybe the OFF is working better than down

Anyways, my pup is going to be 11 months on the 12th of May, she's about 80lbs and is a Bernese

hunter22375

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 3, 2009

dakotajo said:
well I went out and bought the remote training collar with the warning beep and 10 level controls. I used it on myself first and at about 7 I could sure feel it! We have big issue with her jumping on people and digging. We tried everything with the jumping and it's getting worse and the digging is not out of boredom, she loves to dig! I put the collar on her for awhile first before I tried which level would work for her, she was oblivious to all until about level 6 which she just looked around in curiousity and that's as far as I've gotten. I was going to try the training today and would you believe the girl hardly jumped today! So I haven't really used it yet. We have been telling her "OFF" command instead of "DOWN" which was suggested to me so who knows, maybe the OFF is working better than down Anyways, my pup is going to be 11 months on the 12th of May, she's about 80lbs and is a Bernese

Awesome....glad to hear it! Thanks so much for your input. I know this is kinda a touchy subject becasue nobody wants to hurt their dog on any level (at least most don't).

Westhighlander

· #13 · May 4, 2009

They should be used when they get to be about 25.

rosemaryninja

· #14 · May 4, 2009

Hunter, just as a precaution. Wireless fences may keep your dog in, but it doesn't keep other things out. There has already been a recent thread somewhere about nasty kids coming in to harass a dog outside, to say nothing of other aggressive dogs, cats that your dog may want to chase, dog stealers/poisoners and all kinds of other baddies. Putting aside the moral issues of using an electric collar, this is a huge compromise to its practicality. I would never leave my dog out unsupervised as a free-for-all to anyone who wants to come along and interact with her. It's far, far too dangerous.

I'm not sure I understand -- you say your dog is even-tempered and motivated, but none of your usual training methods will keep him from roaming. What exactly have you tried?

dakotajo

· #15 · May 4, 2009

even with 6 foot fenced in yard school kids would still harass my old dog, a German Shepard climbed our fence with ease, and thank god no poisonous food was ever thrown over the fence, so with a fenced in yard or electric fence maybe still don't leave them outside while you are gone just to be safe

Glad I could give you a little in put, I have nothing against any collar or electric fencing as long as all is used properly

cshellenberger

· #16 · May 4, 2009

Method of last resort, used ONLY by a professional and ONLY on an adult dog. The truth is, shock collars can cause as many problems as they solve.

Shock Collars - the Shocking Truth

Articles: Why I REALLY Hate Electronic Shock (Invisible) Fences by ...

Victoria Stilwell - View topic - Prong collars and E-collars

FourIsCompany

· #17 · May 4, 2009

hunter22375 said:
So, lets please stay focused on the original question.

I answered the original question. And I stated that I have nothing against shock-based training. I just don't have any reason to resort to it.

cshellenberger

· #18 · May 4, 2009

hunter22375 said:
A wireless fence isn't a training "method" per say as it is a containment system for the safety of the dog, family, and legal purposes. So, lets please stay focused on the original question. It's obvious you do not approve of ANY shock based training so please allow others with experience in this area to comment on the appropriatness of the age of a dog to begin using the wireless fence, which includes the use of a collar that delivers a corrective shock.

With that said, if you have personnaly used a wireles fence...what age was the dog when you first began to use it? I don't believe the collar will actually have a negative effect physically on him (as I know of smaller dogs that use them) however, I have read that using a collar that delivers an electric shock on too young of a dog can have a negative emotional effect. So, I'm trying to determine a rough estimate on what the average age that this threshhold is. Thank you.

They are based on the same principle, shocking the dog to correct an unwanted behavior. The shock can cause fear based behavior on a dog of ANY age. They certainly shouldn't be in the hands pf a person that is inexperienced with them and honestly, it wouldn't break my heart if a law were passed designating them to professional use ONLY. Timing is critical with shocks, due to the stress they can cause a dog.

Honestly, there are better methods of training that are far more reliable and don't have the chance for a negative effect as shocks (of any form) they just take consistency and patience.

Elana55

· #19 · May 4, 2009 (Edited)

rosemaryninja said:
Hunter, just as a precaution. Wireless fences may keep your dog in, but it doesn't keep other things out. There has already been a recent thread somewhere about nasty kids coming in to harass a dog outside, to say nothing of other aggressive dogs, cats that your dog may want to chase, dog stealers/poisoners and all kinds of other baddies. Putting aside the moral issues of using an electric collar, this is a huge compromise to its practicality. I would never leave my dog out unsupervised as a free-for-all to anyone who wants to come along and interact with her. It's far, far too dangerous.

I'm not sure I understand -- you say your dog is even-tempered and motivated, but none of your usual training methods will keep him from roaming. What exactly have you tried?

This is why I did not use a wireless fence but a physical barrier. My fence is 2X4 welded box wire and steel posts. It is not the entire yard. It is a 50X50 area for Atka to go when I vacuum (she hates that machine).

I thought about a wirelss fence, but in this rural area with non existant AC and dogs that do roam (leash laws are unenforced) I elected to not use the wireless fence. The wireless fence woud only keep her in, and not keep other dogs, people, etc. out.

A also know that some dogs do not obey it. Border Collies are notorious for running thru a wireless fence.

cshellenberger said:
Method of last resort, used ONLY by a professional and ONLY on an adult dog. The truth is, shock collars can cause as many problems as they solve.

I cannot agree with this more. A good trainer.. a really experienced trainer.. might have a shock collar in their tool box, but it is a tool of last resort.

Fact is, the successful negative trainers I know, who WOULD use a shock collar, just don't. Shock Collars are like having a sledge hammer in your tool box when mostly you are a finish carpenter driving finishing nails. Sledge hammer may have its place, but not on finishing nails.

cshellenberger said:
They are based on the same principle, shocking the dog to correct an unwanted behavior. The shock can cause fear based behavior on a dog of ANY age. They certainly shouldn't be in the hands pf a person that is inexperienced with them and honestly, it wouldn't break my heart if a law were passed designating them to professional use ONLY. Timing is critical with shocks, due to the stress they can cause a dog.

Honestly, there are better methods of training that are far more reliable and don't have the chance for a negative effect as shocks (of any form) they just take consistency and patience.

I agree and the answer to the original question by the OP is similar to Westhihglander's answer. Never on a dog less than 25 years old.

I will qualify this to say that there is a VERY narrow window in which a shock collar is the tool to use. It is typically for use in professional competition dogs for a very very specific reason and only after all else has failed. It is the tool of last resort. It is not a tool I would ever recommend for amateurs and that INCLUDES invisible fences.

IMO anyone who uses a shock collar for general dog training on a pet dog is too lazy to do the real work of training. And yes, I know there are those who don't like me saying that.

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Toby4Life

· #20 · May 4, 2009

I'm curious as to the age of the OP's dog. If training is starting to get harder and age is a factor, I'm thinking you've got a teenager. The best tools to combat that IMO is consistency, patience, and time.

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