[PommyMommyLG]

I have 2 purebred poms that are 1 and 2.
Our breeder advised us NOT to give them the lepto vaccine, but our vet and trainer think they'll be fine. Our breeder gave it to one of her dogs and it had constant health issues and almost died.
They need it to come on our trip to Bahamas so I'm curious- should I give it to them or avoid?

 

[Lillith]

Although your breeder is likely very knowledgeable, remember she is not a vet. It is possible that the vaccine caused the medical problems in her dog, although reactions are rare, but it's also possible it's completely unrelated. You should speak candidly with your vet about the possible side effects, statistics, and the likelihood of your dogs contracting the disease.

Personally, I have been vaccinating my dog for Lepto for the last two years with zero side effects. We live on a rural property where contact with wildlife and their waste is a daily occurrence, and after speaking with my vet and learning of the rising number of cases in the area, I decided to vaccinate to reduce the chances of serious illness. My dog is 6 years old, and although he is middle aged and healthy and would likely survive an infection, the fact that Lepto can transfer to humans and I simply didn't want to risk a serious case that could potentially cause liver or kidney damage was the deciding factor.

You can check out this website from AVMA if you would like more information on Lepto.

 

[K9luv]

My 1st family dog had a reaction to the rabies vaccine. 1st shot nothing, second shot her eyebrows swelled, 3rd shot she went into shock and almost died, needed oxygen and everything. This was years ago and the rabies vaccine is much safer. Anyway my point is the vet ordered a different rabies vaccine for my dog and she never had any more reactions. Maybe you can find out which type of vaccine the breeder's dog reacted to and ask your vet for a different one?

 

[3GSD4IPO]

FWIW Lepto Vaccination efficacy is somewhat short lived. Lepto is a bacteria and vaccination against bacteria is less effective that vaccines developed against viruses. Lyme, Lepto and kennel cough are caused by bacteria so vaccine efficacy is iffy and sometimes does not cover the strain your dog is exposed to.

In dairy cows Lepto is a mild disease but can cause spontaneous abortion which is financially devastating to dairy farmers. Cows on pasture are vaccinated 3x a year for Lepto due to waning vaccine efficacy.

Deer and raccoons are among the native species here that carry and spread Lepto through their urine.

Rabies, distemper, canine influenza and Parvo are viruses. The vaccines against these diseases are more effective with greater immune response longevity.

 

[K9luv]

I didn't think about that TX! ^^^

So are lepto, lyme and KC vaccines like antibiotics? Or the same type of vaccine as virus vaccines and that's why they are not as effective?

 

[DaySleepers]

There's also viral vaccines that have a shorter duration of immunity and bacterial vaccines that last a long time (whooping cough is a great example), so it's not entirely a virus vs. bacteria issue. There's a lot we still don't know about immune systems and, from my totally layperson understanding of things, in many cases we just don't know why some immunity sticks around longer than others. In other cases, like kennel cough, there's so many stains and/or rapid mutation that it becomes extremely difficult to vaccinate for more than the most common forms of the illness.

Most bacterial vaccines do work the same way as viral vaccines, by introducing a killed or severely weakened form of the pathogen to teach the immune system how to respond when it encounters a live, healthy version. There are other kinds of vaccines - like how tetanus shots are actually based on the toxin tetanus bacteria produce, not the bacteria itself, but I don't think any of the common dog vaccines work that way.

 

[3GSD4IPO]

I didn't think about that TX! ^^^

So are lepto, lyme and KC vaccines like antibiotics? Or the same type of vaccine as virus vaccines and that's why they are not as effective?

Vaccination does not work like antibiotics.

Even in antibiotics there are basically two types of antibiotics.. those that kill bacteria and those that interfere with the bacteria replicating. If you mix these two types, they nullify each other as the bacteria must be dividing and replicating for the killer to work and they cannot be dead for the the kind that prevents them from replicating! A for instance: sulfa drugs kill bacteria by preventing them from replicating while pennicillin kills the bacteria. It is all very interesting!

Reading about immunity and immune response is a fascinating study. There are various cells in your body that do different things and the object of vaccination is to teach these cells to recognize a specific intruder and take it down before it makes you sick or kills you. There are also drugs that mute the immune response (such as steroids). If you are giving steroids and you vaccinate the vaccination may not take because the steroid interferes with the immune response.

Allergies, for instance, are frequently the result of an immune response gone haywire. In humans we take antihistamines that are quite effective. The same antihistamines often do not work well in dogs (though some dogs do respond to this class of drug).

Immune response can be very individual. While one animal receiving a vaccine for bacteria such as Lepto (and there are many strains of Lepto so the vaccine may not work for all of them) may have a long lived immune response another animal may not. The proof of general immune response is validated through challenge trials where the animal is vaccinated and then the disease is introduced. The number who do not get sick will tell the efficacy of the vaccine.

Another little bit of information on vaccination is that a vaccine takes awhile to build immunity. Usually immunity is not reached until 10 days to two weeks after vaccination. In the case of puppies, calves, kittens, foals etc. the initial immunity comes from Colostrum (the very first milk made by the Mother). The baby animal absorbs the immunity through the stomach wall. The ability to absorb immunity in this manner ends at about 24 hours old (and is best in the first 12 hours after birth). IF the baby animal does not nurse and does not receive colostrum withint the first 24 hours it will often die of a bacterial overload as it has no immune system yet to defend against anything. On farms with lifestock many farmers will take extra colostrum from an older, mature animal and freeze it so any orphan calves of foals can be fed this (after warming NOT in a Microwave).

By about 16 weeks most puppies no longer have their mother's antibodies and their own immune system is developed. At this time they can be vaccinated and the vaccine should take. Vaccination prior to 16 weeks is "insurance" and can help as the puppy develops his own immune system while his Mother's antibodies are still present (the immune system develops just like the other systems in a growing animal). This is why Rabies vaccine is not typically given until a puppy is 16 weeks old (though some vets do it at 12 weeks).

It is a complicated and very interesting subject and what I have posted here is very very much a rough over view. .