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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay, so I've been looking into switching my girls to TOTW. Now my question is, it says it's good for all life stages, but is it actually too much protein for a puppy (3 months)? And what about the calcium levels? Would I be best going with Pacific Stream because it has a bit less protein or would I be okay with the Prairie formula? Or are all of them too high protein for her yet?
ETA - The High Prairie has: Crude Protein 32.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 18.0 Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum
calcium 2.1
phosphorous 1.4.

Pacific Stream has: Crude Protein 25.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 15.0 Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum
calcium 1.9
phosphorous 1.1
 

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Okay, so I've been looking into switching my girls to TOTW. Now my question is, it says it's good for all life stages, but is it actually too much protein for a puppy (3 months)? Would I be best going with Pacific Stream because it has a bit less protein or would I be okay with the Prairie formula? Or are all of them too high protein for her yet?
ETA - The High Prairie has: Crude Protein 32.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 18.0 Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum

Pacific Stream has: Crude Protein 25.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 15.0 Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum
Hi,
Let me give you some thoughts.. 1st I havent tried either of the foods your thinking about... so im no help there..... as for 32% being to much...no...that is the minimum i would feed to a dog at any age.... now...having said that.... what can you afford.......? because ultimately..that will determine whats the best route to go in selecting a food for your pup.. the other consideration is what breed. it looks like your dog is a german shepard, mix...and this breed is prone to hip dysplacia... so the key in determining which food to use would be picking 1 with the lowest amount of calcium, and ash..as ingredients.. having said that.. its difficult to find a all life stage no grain product with low calcium-ash, and high protien 32% or more..to 42%.. I have a labrador pup whom I considered these same questions about... most of the grain free products r high in calcium..and thus do not slow bone development in growing puppies.. and that is the real problem... in large breed dogs, with hip concerns, slow bone growth is key in preventing possible hip problems as a dog grows into an adult.. of course you wouldnt see the problem till age 4-5-6..yet giving your pup the best chance of not getting hip dysplacia is your only course of action.. for me, I purchased a championship bred labrador from the UK, where every pure bred dog is registered with left and right hip scores.. so you have a very good idea if your pup is prone to hyp dysplacia.. knowing both the sire, and dam's scores..im guessing you dont have that luxury..lol.. I fed my pup "ELSA" Orijen Large Breed Puppy formula...it is the highest quality large breed puppy food on the market...42% protien, no grain, lowest in calcium,ash levels among all life stage dog foods... if you read thru various sites reccomendations re feeding no grain high protien foods to pups, youll find all of them, ? whether these formulas are appropriate for puppies.... so you have to make a choice..... pay top $ for orijen...basically 70$ a 30 lb bag, or feed high protien, grain free allternatives, high in calcium, or another large breed puppy formula containing grain.... really its a price issue as to what you can afford..... the orijen large breed puppy formula is specially developed for slow bone growth.. if you can afford it..go that route.... if not, be concious of the levels of calcium and ash when you pick a food..... those two thing you want to be as low as possible...... thats the best you can do..hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Okay, but I've read in a few places that too high of a protein food is bad for either the kidneys or liver in the long run I can't remember which, possibly both. She's a gsdxhusky, I don't forsee problems with her hips, the vet said they look great as of now and she's got a very light build, but I do understand your concerns about hd. I've also read that as long as the calcium phosphorous ratio is 2:1 you shouldn't have problems, and it seems totw goes pretty well along with that from what I could find.
 

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The kidney issue you refer to is based on the following.... feeding high protien dry kibble... is the concern re hi protirn level..its more difficult for a dog to digest. This is remedied by assuring your pup gets high intake of water... in the wild canine protien diets are exclusively moist.. raw meat in essence is 75 % water based.. so in feding the kibble.. soak it.. i fill the bowl with the appropriate food amount, and then fill with water.. 1/2- 3/4 of the way.. mix etc.. then the water will absorb into the kibble ..expanding the kibble some 50%.. thus providing ample additional water for digestion.. as canines are n ot aware of there water needs.... point being... feeding high protien grain free is the best diet for your dog.. just use common sense re intake of water.. my guess is your source for calcium- phosporous ratio's re proper levels for pups.. is based on a manufactures claim, rather then fact. Often these food companies, to meet standard, jubble there ingredients, and minerals to compose a diet at the cheapest price..as quality ingredients mean a lower bottom line... I would stick to the lowest calcium % food I coulod find, then pair that up with the lowest ash level food .. your best choice would be the lowest in both catagories, yet some manufacturers dont provide specific ash content, and then affordability might price you to a higher level product.. do the best you can. .. if you really want some great information.. google "the dog food project" read every word this site has, and you will be confident in your decision of food selection, and canine nutrition.. facts and myths..... some of it might be over the top for you, after doing 3-400 hours of research re do food..canine diet... that site, confirmed, many of my opinions, facts i had gathered, and added some insight... good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The calcium phosphorous ratio didn't come from the manufacturer. As nutrients calcium and phosphorous work together and therefore should be close to a 2:1 ratio for each other. I've put a lot a lot of research into their food. ;)
 

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I have a morkie (yorkie/maltese mix) puppy who's almost a year old. She's been on TOTW High Prairie since she was 6 or 7 months, and she's doing fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sloth thank you for some encouraging news! I'm definitely getting it for my 1 year old, I'm just trying to decide whether to put the puppy on it aswell.
 

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mineral balance is most important for growing puppies. As to protein levels; the body uses protein to build structure, so there's no harm in higher protein.
the high protein is hard on the kidneys is based on outdated data from the 70's. Animal protein is generally mineral rich and it's the MINERALS that cause the issue, not the protein. You just need to make sure it has the right balance of minerals.
 

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I'll be honest and say I don't know much about the percentages they should have and all that, but my 3 month old has been on the Wetlands formula since she was 8 weeks old, and we've had no issue.

My breeder told me she thought TOTW was a great food, but she is wary about puppies being on a grain-free diet, although I think that ties into your question about the protein content and such.
 

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My dogs have been on TOTW since they were pups. Actually, I rotate flavors with every bag (Wetlands, Pacific, Prairie) just to give them some variety in their diet, which I believe they truly appreciate. They have done very, very well on this food. NEVER had any hot spots, dry skin, poop/digestive problems, or bad breath. Both my JRTs are very muscular and active. Sometimes I actually think the Pacific Stream formula is too low in protien for them, but they really like the salmon taste, so I put the formula in the rotation. But they love them all and look super!
 

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the protien issue is under deabate.. because once a kidney problem has developed the recomendation is to lower protien.. HOWEVER no evidence has confirmed that too much protien causes the kidney failure - its using the solition to diagnose the problem..
Dogs in the wild eat A LOT of protien.. so it would be interesting to compare dogs that eat raw vrs dogs that eat grainy kibble for kidney issues.. Its a new subject to broach so people are being somewhat cautious.. but there is a lot of info out there saying these statements simply aren't true and the only concern is as was stated above - the rapid growth in pups! I'd feed it
 
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