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So my incredibly sweet, gentle, smart little girl (now 6 mos. old) is 50% AmStaff, 25% Boxer, 12.5% Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and then a mix of a bunch of different breed groups. I have to say that I'm surprised, if only because she seems to be so much finer-boned than most "Pitbulls" I've seen, and her head also seems to be less broad and heavy. But then I really knew very little about the breed except to believe that they get a bad rap as a breed when, in general, it's the people who train them to be aggressive who should be held accountable. It honestly didn't occur to me when I adopted her that she might be AmStaff or SBT!

But it's good to know! The online "puppy weight predictors" I'd been looking at seemed unlikely to be very accurate (the most they predicted was about 32 lbs.), and Wisdom Panel predicts she'll be between 43 and 67 pounds.

So--to anyone out there who has similar breeds, any further tips? I know that socialization with other dogs is really important. So far she really has been the most mellow puppy I've ever encountered, and so easy to train...
 

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How old is she now? I've used http://www.puppychart.com/ to predict my own Lab/Pit mix, and so far it is also predicting on the low end for either breed. Of course, I'm guessing at the Pit part, based on features, but like Naima, my Tessa is pretty slender, at least for now. And her face is also narrow... except when she lays on her back asleep, and that lower jaw is all pit, boy.

You're doing what I'm doing: lots of (fun!) obedience training and socialization, both with humans of all ages and dogs. She was really timid at first, and is now beginning to grow more confident while staying high-energy-playful. That's all we can do. Love them, lead them, and see how they grow.
 

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How old is she now? I've used http://www.puppychart.com/ to predict my own Lab/Pit mix, and so far it is also predicting on the low end for either breed. Of course, I'm guessing at the Pit part, based on features, but like Naima, my Tessa is pretty slender, at least for now. And her face is also narrow... except when she lays on her back asleep, and that lower jaw is all pit, boy.

You're doing what I'm doing: lots of (fun!) obedience training and socialization, both with humans of all ages and dogs. She was really timid at first, and is now beginning to grow more confident while staying high-energy-playful. That's all we can do. Love them, lead them, and see how they grow.
She's about 6 mos., and almost 28 lbs. She started off when I adopted her very undernourished (12.4 lbs. at about 4 mos.), and she's steadily gained 2 lbs. a week since then. She was smaller than her sister. I used PuppyChart too; I just thought it was unlikely that she'd gain another 4 lbs. at this point and stop growing!

Tessa's face actually really reminds me of Naima's (maybe there's a tiny bit of Lab in there somewhere as well!)--that intense stare! Naima really does start to look like a Pit when she's hot and/or tired, and her tongue is hanging out. :)

So far the training is going really well, so I guess we'll both just carry on! Thanks.
 

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So my incredibly sweet, gentle, smart little girl (now 6 mos. old) is 50% AmStaff, 25% Boxer, 12.5% Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and then a mix of a bunch of different breed groups. I have to say that I'm surprised, if only because she seems to be so much finer-boned than most "Pitbulls" I've seen, and her head also seems to be less broad and heavy. But then I really knew very little about the breed except to believe that they get a bad rap as a breed when, in general, it's the people who train them to be aggressive who should be held accountable. It honestly didn't occur to me when I adopted her that she might be AmStaff or SBT!

But it's good to know! The online "puppy weight predictors" I'd been looking at seemed unlikely to be very accurate (the most they predicted was about 32 lbs.), and Wisdom Panel predicts she'll be between 43 and 67 pounds.

So--to anyone out there who has similar breeds, any further tips? I know that socialization with other dogs is really important. So far she really has been the most mellow puppy I've ever encountered, and so easy to train...
Trim, small female pit bulls are not abnormal in ADBA circles. 35-45 lbs is common. They are muscular but not huge.

Those breed results don't surprise me in the least for both her photo and your descriptions of her.

As far as tips, well, she's a dog. Don't let her breed define her, treat her as her basically. There are breed traits but they aren't overriding, if that makes sense. No more than for a Lab or a Spaniel. Now, other people might try to define her by breed so if you have any concerns about your home-owners insurance for example, then switch to an all-breed company.

I know a lot more dog-friendly pit types than I do dog-aggressive pit types and even for those on the dog-aggressive spectrum, most are on the lower end of it. Part of that is just being a terrier; tenaciousness is normal. Picture a Jack Russell going after a rat or rabbit. Very few pit types I know go straight to aggression unless pushed into it and even then, many will work to avoid it UNTIL they can't and then it is game-on. It is of course best to avoid having a dog pushed into a corner (both the descriptive and the literal type of corner) but it is good to know how to safely break up a dog fight with either one human or two humans present. One human and two dogs isn't so fun but there are ways to make it safer.

Going back to those breed traits--
They do tend to be easy to train because they love humans and love working with humans on the whole
Most are emotionally sensitive but physically tough. As in, it "hurts" them more to scold them verbally than to accidentally trip over them or whack them with the door as they rush to the yard.
Prey drive is common as with most terriers.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Trim, small female pit bulls are not abnormal in ADBA circles. 35-45 lbs is common. They are muscular but not huge.

Those breed results don't surprise me in the least for both her photo and your descriptions of her.

As far as tips, well, she's a dog. Don't let her breed define her, treat her as her basically. There are breed traits but they aren't overriding, if that makes sense. No more than for a Lab or a Spaniel. Now, other people might try to define her by breed so if you have any concerns about your home-owners insurance for example, then switch to an all-breed company.

I know a lot more dog-friendly pit types than I do dog-aggressive pit types and even for those on the dog-aggressive spectrum, most are on the lower end of it. Part of that is just being a terrier; tenaciousness is normal. Picture a Jack Russell going after a rat or rabbit. Very few pit types I know go straight to aggression unless pushed into it and even then, many will work to avoid it UNTIL they can't and then it is game-on. It is of course best to avoid having a dog pushed into a corner (both the descriptive and the literal type of corner) but it is good to know how to safely break up a dog fight with either one human or two humans present. One human and two dogs isn't so fun but there are ways to make it safer.

Going back to those breed traits--
They do tend to be easy to train because they love humans and love working with humans on the whole
Most are emotionally sensitive but physically tough. As in, it "hurts" them more to scold them verbally than to accidentally trip over them or whack them with the door as they rush to the yard.
Prey drive is common as with most terriers.
I've been looking for pictures of the trimmer ones recently (I assumed that she was at least part Pit--just not quite so much!), but I rarely see them like that. It seems that people prefer the stockier ones, perhaps. Lately I've been calling her a "Pitbullerina" because she does this lovely and very graceful little prance and dance, especially when kibble is coming.

I have to say (maybe it's silly, but I'm on my own a lot) that I kind of like the idea of having a dog who LOOKS kind of like a badass but is in reality in love with everyone she meets, so far (probably one of those dogs who would lick a burglar's face and bring him a ball to play with). :)

So far no signs of dog aggression either (even around the crazy neighbor's aggressive shepherds), but I'll take you up on your advice on learning how to break up dogfights.

But I guess my main question is, how likely is it that her personality will change a great deal as she gets older? She strikes me as a weirdly "mature" dog--no snapping, growling, tantrums (occasional "zoomies," of course), trying to rip things to shreds (much, although she does like to chew still), etc. Her favorite activity seems to be taking naps with me and snuggling as close as she can. As far as prey drive is concerned, the only things she's gone after so far are the little anole lizards around the pool, and I think that it's just because they move so fast (one little guy was shocked the other night when she carried him around halfway out of her mouth until I told her to drop him, and he got away unscathed!). I have a little diamond dove who sleeps in the same room as we do, and Naima so far has only shown minor curiosity when the bird makes some kind of noise. So far, so good...

Thanks for the info. and advice.

P.S. And I've definitely seen the sensitive thing at work. Sometimes when she gets a little too mouthy I get up and walk away. She gets the saddest, most contrite look on her face, and the behavior stops right away.
 

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People are breeding for stockier but remember that a younger dog is going to have less muscle than an adult dog of otherwise the same build which can make photos deceptive. Some people call the little ones "pocket pitties"

My former foster Frankie was/is one of the slim build dogs. Of course, I do not know exactly what her breed make-up is, but as she had only one owner before coming into rescue (owner died) and her breed was on-record, its a better guess or assumption than with most rescue dogs. She was about 5 years old when I fostered her, so full grown.


I should try to video Eva's little dance before her kibble breakfast is served. She spins and tap dances with excitement.

As far as personality changing, every dog is different. The trend seems to be mildly towards a little more serious thought, a little less tolerance for other dogs being rude, and a little more prey drive. Somewhere between 2 years and 3 years of age is the changing point. I don't mean that you are going to wake up to a different dog, not at all, but that things you see hints of at one year old or two year old become more solidified and prominent by 3 years old.

Snuggling is one of most pit types best skills. Champion cuddle-bugs. Eva has seriously turned down a walk before in exchange for a good couch snuggle with someone she likes but doesn't get to see all that often.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
People are breeding for stockier but remember that a younger dog is going to have less muscle than an adult dog of otherwise the same build which can make photos deceptive. Some people call the little ones "pocket pitties"

My former foster Frankie was/is one of the slim build dogs. Of course, I do not know exactly what her breed make-up is, but as she had only one owner before coming into rescue (owner died) and her breed was on-record, its a better guess or assumption than with most rescue dogs. She was about 5 years old when I fostered her, so full grown.


I should try to video Eva's little dance before her kibble breakfast is served. She spins and tap dances with excitement.

As far as personality changing, every dog is different. The trend seems to be mildly towards a little more serious thought, a little less tolerance for other dogs being rude, and a little more prey drive. Somewhere between 2 years and 3 years of age is the changing point. I don't mean that you are going to wake up to a different dog, not at all, but that things you see hints of at one year old or two year old become more solidified and prominent by 3 years old.

Snuggling is one of most pit types best skills. Champion cuddle-bugs. Eva has seriously turned down a walk before in exchange for a good couch snuggle with someone she likes but doesn't get to see all that often.
Yes, I can definitely see Naima looking quite a bit like Frankie when she grows up. Pretty dog--I hope she found a good home!

I'd honestly be surprised if Naima's personality changed all that much--I get the sense that her behavior is kind of deep-rooted in a way, or something--she just seems to be a calm individual. Not that I'd be surprised the see the kinds of changes you mention.

And snuggling (and napping) skills are paramount, as far as I'm concerned. :) Although I can't wait until she's also old enough to take long walks with me at a reasonably fast pace, too. At this point she just likes to meander, mostly.
 

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Yes, I can definitely see Naima looking quite a bit like Frankie when she grows up. Pretty dog--I hope she found a good home!

I'd honestly be surprised if Naima's personality changed all that much--I get the sense that her behavior is kind of deep-rooted in a way, or something--she just seems to be a calm individual. Not that I'd be surprised the see the kinds of changes you mention.

And snuggling (and napping) skills are paramount, as far as I'm concerned. :) Although I can't wait until she's also old enough to take long walks with me at a reasonably fast pace, too. At this point she just likes to meander, mostly.
Frankie was adopted out about 3 1/2 years ago to a man who had previously had a dog-aggressive GSD (she showed DA on leash/barrier aggression) who passed of old age and he carefully took his time in evaluating his next dog. I feel pretty good that she ended up in a good home.

My foster Freckles was what I called an "old soul" since at only 4 months of age, he acted as mature as any adult dog and was very deliberate in his actions. The only change that I heard about after he was adopted (into a home with another bully type) and grew up was that he developed some resource guarding over the couch which training appeared to have solved.
 

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I'm glad about Frankie. And "old soul" is exactly what I've called Naima.

I'll try to get video of Naima's dance and you can get Eva's and we can compare (if I can figure out how to show video on the site--I'm a little tech-challenged)!
 

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All the things Shell said. :)

Also, you'll want to make yourself aware of any BSL in your area or areas you might travel. Most of these laws only take into account what the dog looks like (not what they actually are). For example the recent law coming into effect in Montreal, your pit bull type dog must be muzzled at all times when not on your property, and if they aren't you risk animal control seizing your dog and killing them. (that's just one of the new stipulations)
 

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Here's my 6 year old pit bull with my 25 pound whippet. She was a tiny little thing and very fun. 35 pounds. She was like any other dog except I paid a little more attention to dog/dog interactions as she aged. For the most part, she was excellent with other dogs and loved playing more than just about anything else.

I hope you enjoy your girl as much as I enjoyed mine. Unfortunately, I lost her suddenly a few months after this picture was taken.

 

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All the things Shell said. :)

Also, you'll want to make yourself aware of any BSL in your area or areas you might travel. Most of these laws only take into account what the dog looks like (not what they actually are). For example the recent law coming into effect in Montreal, your pit bull type dog must be muzzled at all times when not on your property, and if they aren't you risk animal control seizing your dog and killing them. (that's just one of the new stipulations)
Yikes! That's terrible! It does seem like almost every dog in Florida, where I live, is at least part "Pit." They'd have muzzles on everyone! I kind of don't think that people would, in general, look at Naima and first think "Pitbull"--my guess is that people think of brindle, huge head, stocky body, and shorter legs when they think of the breed, unless they're more familiar. A lot of people have guessed Rat or some other kind of terrier when they've seen her so far, although others have guessed it right off (again, people who know the breed better). And Naima really is quite tiny compared to most of the other Pit-type dogs I've seen (6 mos./28 lbs.).

Does the fact that she's only half (or slightly more than half, if you count the 12.5 % Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Pit help at all?
 

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Here's my 6 year old pit bull with my 25 pound whippet. She was a tiny little thing and very fun. 35 pounds. She was like any other dog except I paid a little more attention to dog/dog interactions as she aged. For the most part, she was excellent with other dogs and loved playing more than just about anything else.

I hope you enjoy your girl as much as I enjoyed mine. Unfortunately, I lost her suddenly a few months after this picture was taken.

I'm so sorry that you lost her at such a young age!

So far, Naima's been pretty much nothing but wonderful, but yeah, I'm going to be more cautious around other dogs--just in case.
 

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Shell nailed it.

I would just add not to trust "puppychart.com", at least as regards big breeds they are totally innacurate.
I believe their data comes from wikipedia (not the best source...) and to give an idea they "predict" that my 10 months bullmastiff will only gain 3,5kgs/7.7lbs more. Other BM´s I sam growing (his father for instance) increased between 12-18kgs /26-40 lbs after that age.
 

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Agreed, re: Puppy chart. They're basically using a really standard formula that doesn't take account of breed differences, which determine how long dogs grow. I wouldn't be surprised to see her end up nearer 40lbs than 30, honestly. Maybe even 45. She's pretty close to the same size at 6 months as my 40lb BC (who has been 43 when overweight). She's heavier (something like 5lbs heavier, which is a decent percentage) than Molly was, even, and all of the breeds in her mix and BC are mid-sized. Now, granted Molly added that extra 5lbs between being 1 and turning 2, but that's sure enough where she stopped at maturity.

And 40-45lbs is dead on normal for a female pit mix.
 

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Does the fact that she's only half (or slightly more than half, if you count the 12.5 % Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Pit help at all?
No, it doesn't matter. She could be 0% pit but if she fits certain physical characteristics or a 'look' she still counts. BSL is stupid, is the best I can say on here.

There are definitely areas in FL that I know of with BSL, so check into it just to be safe.
 

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No, it doesn't matter. She could be 0% pit but if she fits certain physical characteristics or a 'look' she still counts. BSL is stupid, is the best I can say on here.

There are definitely areas in FL that I know of with BSL, so check into it just to be safe.
Yeah, absolutely illegal in Miami-Dade.
 

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Absurd about the BSL. Fortunately, we don't live in Miami-Dade; we live in north Florida (not that THAT doesn't have its problems!). Apparently Florida has banned BSL, but Miami-Dade so far has managed to remain an exception:

http://flaglerlive.com/34422/pit-bull-bans-gc/

I can't believe the penalties they're allowed to pursue, or that dogs can be taken from their families and euthanized! Pardon my French, but WTF?

And again, I don't think Naima fits most people's image of a Pitbull. The shelter, of course, listed her as a "Lab mix," and I thought that was quite possibly right, and I've seen a lot of Pitbulls (that's pretty much all you'll find in the shelters down here).

Yeah--PuppyChart seems really off. The DNA test predicted 43-67 lbs., and I think she'll probably be at the low end of that. So I think you're right there, CaptJack!
 

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I'm not claiming any special knowledge . . . just that I follow the dog scene in Australia where APBT is banned from import and subject to various and some harsh bans in many states and localities, while AmStaffs and SBT's are allowed almost everywhere. In fact staffies (SBT's) are neck and neck with Labradors for #1 most popular pedigree dog. IMO staffies and APBT's are more alike than different.

Stupid, no? Goverments are often stupid when it comes to dogs.

The Australian conclusion is that the AmStaff and the APBT cannot be separated by genetic testing. Where there are bans, the AmStaff is allowed on basis of pedigree. Pit bulll tends to be identified by visuals (sometimes followed by court battles). Genetic tests are regarded as irrelevant. Your 50% AmStaff may indeed be 50% pitty, but the genetic test may give you cover to deny pit bull to an insurance company. Given that it's Florida, where garden variety pit bulls are common and pedigree AmStaff's are rare, I'd say AmSTaff=pit bull.

I hate all this BSL stuff! But, yes, at 50% AmSTaff=pit bull, I would be on the lookout for dog aggression and do a good job with socialization. Some pitties are good with other dogs, but I do worry when an off lead bull type comes up to me when I'm walking my dogs . . . more than I would with other breeds/mixes.
 

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All the bans I've seen typically include all the 'pit type' breeds (APBT, AST, SBT, etc) and then a caveat of also including any mix of any of those breeds or any dog with the physical characteristics of any of those breeds.
 
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