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How does being a DA dog have anything to do with harming or traumatizing children? If a dog is muzzled for the safety of other dogs, it has jack to do with people generally. Dog aggression does not equal human aggression in the least.
As for "traumatizing" other dogs, I'll say that my dog and a few of my fosters have been the presence of muzzled dogs and have not seemed traumatized.
The entire point of muzzling a DA dog is to make is safe to be in public around other dogs (should there be other dogs- I'm not suggesting going to a dog park, but things like walking on-leash in a neighborhood)
I'm positive that seeing DA dog lunging at other dogs as a child is NOT beneficial to the breed when that child grows up and has a say in things like BSL. When you have a breed as misunderstood as the Pit Bull you want to show the public good examples of the breed. I really think you're missing my point. I never stated that DA dogs attacked children, nor did I discourage the use of muzzles for safety reasons.
 

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I'm positive that seeing DA dog lunging at other dogs as a child is NOT beneficial to the breed when that child grows up and has a say in things like BSL. When you have a breed as misunderstood as the Pit Bull you want to show the public good examples of the breed. I really think you're missing my point. I never stated that DA dogs attacked children, nor did I discourage the use of muzzles for safety reasons.
I guess I am missing your point because I read this:
I'm simply saying that if it's necessary for the dog to be muzzled then it shouldn't be brought around dogs and children
as meaning that a muzzled dog, regardless of behavior at the time, should not be around children.

I'm not going to paint myself as a pit bull expert, but I am fully aware of the need to have good breed ambassadors (like the pit bull currently sleeping in my bed can be; or the one before her is being with her family etc)
 

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I have to beg to differ here..ha..ha..any well trained dog that is DA can slip and instinct take over,,its not 100% full proof at all, even the best of trained dogs can have a moment(they are animals) not robots..same goes in our horse world..my horse is broke for a child..but he is a horse all the same not 100% full proof..not with an animal. A dog aggressive dog in the public unmuzzled is a risk.Just my opinion and from experience.

the thing with this is that's not always the case. a lot of dog aggressive dogs have very specific triggers and very specific processes. I. e. the buildup to aggressive out burst is predictable. avoid cues, redirect the initial behaviors that are warnings and have the dog be well versed in things like heeling, eyecontact when asked, sit, down, leave it etc.. .and finally have you a vigilant eye and a process/extraction plan should surprises pop up.. ..and it should be fine. I would walk the Da dog in the neighborhood often. the neighbors were all duly informed. she was quite sweet with people. just didn't like dogs. it was worth for her quality of life and for the result that it had on how the neighborhood dealt with its dogs. they were communicative, respectful and were very easygoing about the responsibility of keeping ones dog in check. and not all of that was out of fear. it was because they were told outright and knew her. they saw what level of work was put into that level of training and control and were respectful of it largely.

its not even the dog really that's the problem, or the DA. its people and how they understand the animals under their care AND how well they understand the situation around them.
 

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I guess I am missing your point because I read this:


as meaning that a muzzled dog, regardless of behavior at the time, should not be around children.

I'm not going to paint myself as a pit bull expert, but I am fully aware of the need to have good breed ambassadors (like the pit bull currently sleeping in my bed can be; or the one before her is being with her family etc)
Regardless of behavior? That is most definitely not what I said.
If it is necessary the dog be muzzled, I don't believe he should be around children when other dogs are present, because he isn't a good example of the breed. The muzzle has no effect on the dog's individual behavior.
 

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Im walking around my neighborhood with a 100 lb female Rottie ...18 months old.
No leash required..
Im seriously starting to question the advice I am reading on this forum.
I honestly believe the advice here is a a bunch of crap!
BUT.. I will continue to read...
I walk around my neighborhood with an 80lb GSD, 2 years old.
No leash required.
He doesn't always get along with dogs, some days he does, other days he does not. He doesn't do very well during vet visits despite my best efforts.
What you said means nothing really. It's not a reflection of how well you can modify problem behavior like dog aggression, it just means you can teach your dog to heel.
 

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Around here, aggressive dogs are actually allowed in dog parks if they are muzzled. There is actually a sign that says "aggressive dogs must be muzzled" I'm not saying that I advocate DA dogs going to dog parks, I don't. However, just with anything there are different types and levels of DA. A guy once came in the park with a HUGE American Bulldog. It had a muzzle on. The guy said the dog was perfectly fine but if another male tried to challenge him then he would react. For me personally I didn't have a huge problem with this, and the dog was fine the entire time. The owner was also watching him like a hawk. I had respect for the owner for being responsible.

The OP's example seemed to be a much more intense type of DA. So my point is that is depends on the dog and the level of DA. If just the sight of another dog is enough to set them off and want to kill them, then yes probably not a good idea to bring them into a congested public place. However, if it is a very specific trigger that can be avoided, by a knowledgeable owner, who has the dog in a muzzle, then I see no problem with the dog going out in public and I praise the owner for being responsible....
 

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You care for them the same way you would a regular dog, just minus the trips to the pet store and places other dogs may be close, so that you can avoid a possible encounter.

And I mean places like dog parks or pet stores, where dogs are pushed close together.
 

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Around here, aggressive dogs are actually allowed in dog parks if they are muzzled. There is actually a sign that says "aggressive dogs must be muzzled" I'm not saying that I advocate DA dogs going to dog parks, I don't. However, just with anything there are different types and levels of DA. A guy once came in the park with a HUGE American Bulldog. It had a muzzle on. The guy said the dog was perfectly fine but if another male tried to challenge him then he would react. For me personally I didn't have a huge problem with this, and the dog was fine the entire time. The owner was also watching him like a hawk. I had respect for the owner for being responsible.

The OP's example seemed to be a much more intense type of DA. So my point is that is depends on the dog and the level of DA. If just the sight of another dog is enough to set them off and want to kill them, then yes probably not a good idea to bring them into a congested public place. However, if it is a very specific trigger that can be avoided, by a knowledgeable owner, who has the dog in a muzzle, then I see no problem with the dog going out in public and I praise the owner for being responsible....
no muzzle. not needed. never harmed a single dog outside of the home her entire time with me other than the initial incident the first day that was how we found out she was DA.

There are DA dogs that compete in public venues. dogs that you would never know were that way unless you asked or were told. in the grand scheme of behavior issues.. dog aggression is only up there if you don't have your proverbial poop together so to speak.

A muzzle is really a sort of crutch in a sense. yes it does decrease the risk of a bite. but it doesn't really address the problem. a peculiar thing about aggression..its a self reinforcing behavior. the more a dog is given the opportunity to make the undesirable choice to pass a certain threshold, the more they will indulge. the more frustration in the picture, the more amplified that indulgence can get. slowly working them to a point of control so one can teach a more accepted behavior response and addresses the problems that a muzzle doesn't and at times, a muzzle can interfere with this, depending on the dog.

they aren't failsafe either. the dog I speak of could get them off. could also still do damage with one on. and was more likely to try with it than without it because no matter how hard I tried to acclimate her, she never stopped hating it. so I ditched it. and subsequently made progress. she was never comfortable around strange dogs but in the end made friends with a few.

not saying this situation is typical. merely suggesting that knowing, planning and adaptability is probably more in demand in regards to circumstances as dictated by the original post than a widespread distrubution of muzzles. not specifically knocking what you or others have said.. .I just think there's a deeper consideration.
 

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I think DA dogs should always be locked up in a secure confined area, but I had a DA dog that killed my small Beagle as a kid... so I may be biased.
I'd say you're very biased, a properly controlled DA dog will never be given the opportunity to attack another dog. With proper training a DA dog can lead a very normal life, get regular walks and be in public. Unfortunately too many people are lazy and fail thier dogs by not training them.
 

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I'd say you're very biased, a properly controlled DA dog will never be given the opportunity to attack another dog. With proper training a DA dog can lead a very normal life, get regular walks and be in public. Unfortunately too many people are lazy and fail thier dogs by not training them.
I agree. However, the majority of DA dog owners I've met are not willing to properly train their dogs. Of course, people like that shouldn't own a dog period. I don't have a problem with well behaved DA dogs.
 

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I thought we were talking about dog agressive dogs, Pit Bulls, and muzzles? I'm not trying to be rude but I'm wondering what this is a response to?
I thought we were talking about "Giving a Breed of Dog a bad name"
Thats the topic..
 

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My point of this post is...if you have a dog breed that is known to be DA why would you take them out in public around a pack of dogs and cats not muzzled? this only adds to the bad rap these dogs get.
Does not add a bad rap to the breed if anything it would be to the owner, but this guy did the proper thing. It does appear there are many owners out there that are clueless. The guy with the 2 Pitts, the man with the GSD there appears to be no shortage of these type of owners.

The entire point of muzzling a DA dog is to make is safe to be in public around other dogs (should there be other dogs- I'm not suggesting going to a dog park, but things like walking on-leash in a neighborhood)
Yes, responsible owners do the muzzle thing and definitely the waiting outside of Vet's office is even better. ( I pretty much do that with all dogs) Pays off twofold because depending on the dog you are either protecting him/her or protecting the other dogs in office. It's another one of those no-brainer things.
 

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no muzzle. not needed. never harmed a single dog outside of the home her entire time with me other than the initial incident the first day that was how we found out she was DA.

There are DA dogs that compete in public venues. dogs that you would never know were that way unless you asked or were told. in the grand scheme of behavior issues.. dog aggression is only up there if you don't have your proverbial poop together so to speak.

A muzzle is really a sort of crutch in a sense. yes it does decrease the risk of a bite. but it doesn't really address the problem. a peculiar thing about aggression..its a self reinforcing behavior. the more a dog is given the opportunity to make the undesirable choice to pass a certain threshold, the more they will indulge. the more frustration in the picture, the more amplified that indulgence can get. slowly working them to a point of control so one can teach a more accepted behavior response and addresses the problems that a muzzle doesn't and at times, a muzzle can interfere with this, depending on the dog.

they aren't failsafe either. the dog I speak of could get them off. could also still do damage with one on. and was more likely to try with it than without it because no matter how hard I tried to acclimate her, she never stopped hating it. so I ditched it. and subsequently made progress. she was never comfortable around strange dogs but in the end made friends with a few.

not saying this situation is typical. merely suggesting that knowing, planning and adaptability is probably more in demand in regards to circumstances as dictated by the original post than a widespread distrubution of muzzles. not specifically knocking what you or others have said.. .I just think there's a deeper consideration.
While I totally agree that a muzzle is not a fix, I would rather an aggressive dog be wearing one than not be. Requiring a muzzle for dogs who have already shown unprovoked aggression, which is a requirement for a dog to be considered "restricted" (the city's word for aggressive), is not out of line. Its a prevention thing - like a seat belt. You don't expect to get into an accident, but that doesn't mean wearing a seatbelt won't help you if you are.
 

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no muzzle. not needed. never harmed a single dog outside of the home her entire time with me other than the initial incident the first day that was how we found out she was DA.

There are DA dogs that compete in public venues. dogs that you would never know were that way unless you asked or were told. in the grand scheme of behavior issues.. dog aggression is only up there if you don't have your proverbial poop together so to speak.

A muzzle is really a sort of crutch in a sense. yes it does decrease the risk of a bite. but it doesn't really address the problem. a peculiar thing about aggression..its a self reinforcing behavior. the more a dog is given the opportunity to make the undesirable choice to pass a certain threshold, the more they will indulge. the more frustration in the picture, the more amplified that indulgence can get. slowly working them to a point of control so one can teach a more accepted behavior response and addresses the problems that a muzzle doesn't and at times, a muzzle can interfere with this, depending on the dog.

they aren't failsafe either. the dog I speak of could get them off. could also still do damage with one on. and was more likely to try with it than without it because no matter how hard I tried to acclimate her, she never stopped hating it. so I ditched it. and subsequently made progress. she was never comfortable around strange dogs but in the end made friends with a few.

not saying this situation is typical. merely suggesting that knowing, planning and adaptability is probably more in demand in regards to circumstances as dictated by the original post than a widespread distrubution of muzzles. not specifically knocking what you or others have said.. .I just think there's a deeper consideration.
I hear what you are saying, even if in the OP's situation, the owner had the dog wearing a muzzle, the situation would still have been out of control. That would be due to lack of planning and adaptability like you said. I didn't mean to say that the muzzle is the be all end all solution to the problem. However, for me personally, if there is a chance that a dog might bite, unprovoked, then why take that risk?
 

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While I totally agree that a muzzle is not a fix, I would rather an aggressive dog be wearing one than not be. Requiring a muzzle for dogs who have already shown unprovoked aggression, which is a requirement for a dog to be considered "restricted" (the city's word for aggressive), is not out of line. Its a prevention thing - like a seat belt. You don't expect to get into an accident, but that doesn't mean wearing a seatbelt won't help you if you are.
I hear what you are saying, even if in the OP's situation, the owner had the dog wearing a muzzle, the situation would still have been out of control. That would be due to lack of planning and adaptability like you said. I didn't mean to say that the muzzle is the be all end all solution to the problem. However, for me personally, if there is a chance that a dog might bite, unprovoked, then why take that risk?
I can pretty much gaurantee you that with Zim, there is NO muzzle needed for her dog, however she is one of those people that are a rare exception.
 

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I can pretty much gaurantee you that with Zim, there is NO muzzle needed for her dog, however she is one of those people that are a rare exception.
Unfortunately in nearly everything in life, some have to suffer for the benefit of the majority.

I can't speak for other posters, but I am specifically referring to dogs that have a history of unprovoked aggression towards either dogs or people. And while there are definitely owners out there who are totally in control of their dogs aggressive or not, there are also owners who THINK they are totally in control of their dogs, but aren't. Like my neighbor. Like myself (which is why he no longer gets off-leash time with other dogs around). I totally agree with Zim that training is a solution and a muzzle isn't, but that doesn't negate that it can be a useful preventative.
 

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I hear what you are saying, even if in the OP's situation, the owner had the dog wearing a muzzle, the situation would still have been out of control. That would be due to lack of planning and adaptability like you said. I didn't mean to say that the muzzle is the be all end all solution to the problem. However, for me personally, if there is a chance that a dog might bite, unprovoked, then why take that risk?

because sometimes there's MORE risk with things like muzzles than without them. the dog ive been talking about could break out of every muzzle i ever put on her, and the only way to prevent it was to hold her head the entire time she wore it. This is what i mean by it being a crutch. youre making the assumption that it will always prevent a bite when worn. not always. it really does depend on the dog, their intelligence level, their stubborness level and their personality. She got to a point where she'd be calm in the muzzle, people would pass by thinking things were fine and all of a sudden it was gone and she was in full out ballistic mode. With her, the danger of the muzzle was in it's false sense of security. She was ten times easier to deal with in the presence of other dogs without it.
 

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Ive also seen a big dog in a muzzle get frustrated with being unable to aggress normally and he headbutted the little maltese so hard she went flying and broke her leg. It just all depends.
 
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