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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Sadly, sometimes it doesn't even take an incident from the breed in question. A few weeks ago here, the news was breathlessly reporting that a "pit bull" had bit off a kid's hand. It was actually a sheltie that bit the kid's hand and did not seriously injure the kid, but want to bet how many people saw the short correction the news issued once they found out it was a sheltie?

That type of thing is why we work hard to promote a positive and fair representation of the pit bull type dog. Teaching people to look at dog's as individuals, teaching responsible ownership of ALL breeds (good positive training, options for training equipment that suits different dogs), taking pits on visits to schools to teach kids how to greet dogs and treat them nicely, taking pits to the hospital for kids so they have something to cheer them up (cuddly people loving dogs are such great therapy) and dispelling myths about the breed so people are less likely to blindly believe everything the media tells them.
When I had my Dobermans back in the 80s and early 90s they were a target by the media.I had small kids at the time,I remember people saying they couldnt believe I would own those sort of dogs with small kids..I was the "bad mom" in the neighborhood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
A muzzled aggressive dog is still an aggressive dog. A Pit Bull lunging at other dogs and growling in public negatively impacts the breed much more than a muzzle.
I agree,stay clear of the public places you dont have to go if your dog is DA.I do.
 

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A muzzled aggressive dog is still an aggressive dog. A Pit Bull lunging at other dogs and growling in public negatively impacts the breed much more than a muzzle.
A DA dog doesn't mean the dog is out of control. It is entirely possible to have well trained DA dogs that can be walked calmly in public, even nearby to other dogs. Depending on the location and situation, a muzzle may or may not be necessary. An urban park, yes. A rural on-leash state park hiking trail? Probably not.

Of course a growling and lunging dog is a bad thing, but I don't see how that relates to the decision to muzzle or where to take a DA dog since the two (DA & out of control) aren't automatically one-in-the-same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
A DA dog doesn't mean the dog is out of control. It is entirely possible to have well trained DA dogs that can be walked calmly in public, even nearby to other dogs. Depending on the location and situation, a muzzle may or may not be necessary. An urban park, yes. A rural on-leash state park hiking trail? Probably not.

Of course a growling and lunging dog is a bad thing, but I don't see how that relates to the decision to muzzle or where to take a DA dog since the two (DA & out of control) aren't automatically one-in-the-same.
I have to beg to differ here..ha..ha..any well trained dog that is DA can slip and instinct take over,,its not 100% full proof at all, even the best of trained dogs can have a moment(they are animals) not robots..same goes in our horse world..my horse is broke for a child..but he is a horse all the same not 100% full proof..not with an animal. A dog aggressive dog in the public unmuzzled is a risk.Just my opinion and from experience.
 

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Where I live, muzzles are REQUIRED for any APBT, AST (purebred or not), and any dog that has ever been convicted of (unprovoked) chasing, biting, or attacking a person or other (domesticated) animal, any time they are off their owners property. The owners must also have a complete enclosure including a 6' fence and a tether while the dog is outdoors on their property.
 

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A DA dog doesn't mean the dog is out of control. It is entirely possible to have well trained DA dogs that can be walked calmly in public, even nearby to other dogs. Depending on the location and situation, a muzzle may or may not be necessary. An urban park, yes. A rural on-leash state park hiking trail? Probably not.

Of course a growling and lunging dog is a bad thing, but I don't see how that relates to the decision to muzzle or where to take a DA dog since the two (DA & out of control) aren't automatically one-in-the-same.
That was a reply to a poster who seemed to be implying that I thought muzzling made the breed look bad.
A misbehaving dog makes the breed look bad more than a muzzled well behaved dog.
 

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That was a reply to a poster who seemed to be implying that I thought muzzling made the breed look bad.
A misbehaving dog makes the breed look bad more than a muzzled well behaved dog.
Ah, misunderstood.

And I agree that a misbehaving dog looks worse than a muzzled well-behaved dog, I do wish more people understood that muzzling has its time and place and typically does NOT mean a dog is human aggressive.
Lots of people seem to think a muzzle means a dog will eat their children given half a chance rather than simply meaning the dog might harm another dog while being as gentle as anything with humans.
 

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Im walking around my neighborhood with a 100 lb female Rottie ...18 months old.
No leash required..
Im seriously starting to question the advice I am reading on this forum.
I honestly believe the advice here is a a bunch of crap!
BUT.. I will continue to read...
 

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Im walking around my neighborhood with a 100 lb female Rottie ...18 months old.
No leash required..
Im seriously starting to question the advice I am reading on this forum.
I honestly believe the advice here is a a bunch of crap!
BUT.. I will continue to read...
I thought we were talking about dog agressive dogs, Pit Bulls, and muzzles? I'm not trying to be rude but I'm wondering what this is a response to?
 

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Where I live, muzzles are REQUIRED for any APBT, AST (purebred or not), and any dog that has ever been convicted of (unprovoked) chasing, biting, or attacking a person or other (domesticated) animal, any time they are off their owners property. The owners must also have a complete enclosure including a 6' fence and a tether while the dog is outdoors on their property.
Or, a de facto BSL. That kind of law makes me sad. I don't have any issue with muzzles and fences for dogs that have (unprovoked) attacked another dog or human, but the breed specific crap is just horrible. A law like that precludes anyone who can't afford a 6 foot fence (which ain't cheap) from legally owning an ABPT/AST/dog that vaguely looks like one and dooms even the most friendly of them to a life in a muzzle.

The attacking a domesticated animal part is iffy to me... the free roaming cats (against city law) could be an issue for some dogs and I don't think a leashed dog should be punished for being aggressive to a free roaming cat or another small animal (like a rabbit as an example).
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Im walking around my neighborhood with a 100 lb female Rottie ...18 months old.
No leash required..
Im seriously starting to question the advice I am reading on this forum.
I honestly believe the advice here is a a bunch of crap!
BUT.. I will continue to read...

Thats wonderful you can do that.What has that got to do with the 2 pitbulls being dog aggressive at a rabie clinic?
 

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As something between getting back on topic and an aside, I actually did take one of my friend's fear aggressive dogs (a border collie) to a rabies clinic.

We took her three dogs. I sat in the car with the aggressive dog while she registered us. Then we took her dogs for a walk out in a field away from any other dogs. When our number was called, I held the dog close to me and we safely went up to the bus (mobile clinic). She had forewarned the vet, the dog was safely supervised and controlled the entire time, we then exited directly to my car.

It is doable, really. This guy didn't manage it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Or, a de facto BSL. That kind of law makes me sad. I don't have any issue with muzzles and fences for dogs that have (unprovoked) attacked another dog or human, but the breed specific crap is just horrible. A law like that precludes anyone who can't afford a 6 foot fence (which ain't cheap) from legally owning an ABPT/AST/dog that vaguely looks like one and dooms even the most friendly of them to a life in a muzzle.

The attacking a domesticated animal part is iffy to me... the free roaming cats (against city law) could be an issue for some dogs and I don't think a leashed dog should be punished for being aggressive to a free roaming cat or another small animal (like a rabbit as an example).
If this was the case here my Dakota would already be on the muzzle/watch list for killing a rabitt.
 

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Okay so what exactly did you mean by this? I took it as you're saying that putting a muzzle on a pitbull is bad for the breed's name.
I meant that muzzling an aggressive dog and taking him in public may make it safer, but the dog is still aggressive and only makes the breed look worse.
 

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I meant that muzzling an aggressive dog and taking him in public may make it safer, but the dog is still aggressive and only makes the breed look worse.
So what are you asking for? Make things safe or not? Take the dog out in public or not? Would you rather someone take a well trained DA dog out and about without a muzzle, knowing that it is unlikely the dog will act but possible, in order to make it "look" better?

If the dog is aggressive, that's just a fact of life that needs to be managed. Managing it properly should not make the breed look worse, people should be educated that some dogs of ALL breeds can be dog aggressive and that a muzzle is a safe option to allow the dog a good quality of life. Are they? Maybe not, but when one person asks about the muzzle and a responsible owner explains it, that is one more person educated and one more person that will probably share that information with friends if the question arises again.

Honestly, I have really and truly met more dog aggressive GSDs, Goldens, BCs etc than I have pit bull types and I have met a lot of pit bull types. It is so individual really. Focusing on breed is the whole problem here (here= society, not dogforums) and it is hard to educate the average Joe.
 

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So what are you asking for? Make things safe or not? Take the dog out in public or not? Would you rather someone take a well trained DA dog out and about without a muzzle, knowing that it is unlikely the dog will act but possible, in order to make it "look" better?

If the dog is aggressive, that's just a fact of life that needs to be managed. Managing it properly should not make the breed look worse, people should be educated that some dogs of ALL breeds can be dog aggressive and that a muzzle is a safe option to allow the dog a good quality of life. Are they? Maybe not, but when one person asks about the muzzle and a responsible owner explains it, that is one more person educated and one more person that will probably share that information with friends if the question arises again.

Honestly, I have really and truly met more dog aggressive GSDs, Goldens, BCs etc than I have pit bull types and I have met a lot of pit bull types. It is so individual really. Focusing on breed is the whole problem here (here= society, not dogforums) and it is hard to educate the average Joe.
This. My DA Pit Bull is so well managed these days, that people don't have a clue she's DA until I warn them, to which they simply move their dogs away. She deserves to be out enjoying life every bit as much as the next dog.
 

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I have no opinion on muzzling. I'm simply saying that if it's necessary for the dog to be muzzled then it shouldn't be brought around dogs and children where it could harm and traumatize them. If any dog needs to be muzzled in public then it isn't a good ambassador of the breed. That's my opinion based on what I've seen at my store.
Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding.
 

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I just had to rant on this one a little.
A friend of mine attended a rabie clinic this week with her 2 small dogs and cat.There was a guy with 2 pitbulls that lunged at her son that was carrying a cat(in a crate).The dog bit the owner several times,the entire time he was on his cell phone and just hit the dog in the head.The dog then started lunging at every dog there,some people left and didn't get their animal the rabie shot.

My point of this post is...if you have a dog breed that is known to be DA why would you take them out in public around a pack of dogs and cats not muzzled? this only adds to the bad rap these dogs get.
Ugh, I saw a similar situation this summer when I was at the beach with my nieces. This guy had a GSD with him that was barking, snapping, and lunging at any person that would pass him (there were lots and lots of kids there too as it was a really hot day).
He even lunged at one of the police officers that was there monitoring the beach but the cop didn't do anything (Which I completely don't understand).
The whole time the dog was doing this, the owner was laughing. He acted like he was a real bad a** with a "vicious dog".

I soooo wanted to take that dog away from that creep. I was going to say something to him before we left but he left before we did. I wish now that I had said something though. Not like it would have done much good anyway... :p
 

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I have no opinion on muzzling. I'm simply saying that if it's necessary for the dog to be muzzled then it shouldn't be brought around dogs and children where it could harm and traumatize them. If any dog needs to be muzzled in public then it isn't a good ambassador of the breed. That's my opinion based on what I've seen at my store.
Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding.
How does being a DA dog have anything to do with harming or traumatizing children? If a dog is muzzled for the safety of other dogs, it has jack to do with people generally. Dog aggression does not equal human aggression in the least.
As for "traumatizing" other dogs, I'll say that my dog and a few of my fosters have been the presence of muzzled dogs and have not seemed traumatized.
The entire point of muzzling a DA dog is to make is safe to be in public around other dogs (should there be other dogs- I'm not suggesting going to a dog park, but things like walking on-leash in a neighborhood)
 
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