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Discussion Starter #1
I just had to rant on this one a little.
A friend of mine attended a rabie clinic this week with her 2 small dogs and cat.There was a guy with 2 pitbulls that lunged at her son that was carrying a cat(in a crate).The dog bit the owner several times,the entire time he was on his cell phone and just hit the dog in the head.The dog then started lunging at every dog there,some people left and didn't get their animal the rabie shot.

My point of this post is...if you have a dog breed that is known to be DA why would you take them out in public around a pack of dogs and cats not muzzled? this only adds to the bad rap these dogs get.:doh:
 

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I think DA dogs should always be locked up in a secure confined area, but I had a DA dog that killed my small Beagle as a kid... so I may be biased.

I work at a pet store and people bring in aggressive dogs sometimes. Not only is it bad for the people/dogs around, but it's bad for the dog himself. Some people bring in aggressive dogs with muzzles, but that just makes the breed look worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think DA dogs should always be locked up in a secure confined area, but I had a DA dog that killed my small Beagle as a kid... so I may be biased.

I work at a pet store and people bring in aggressive dogs sometimes. Not only is it bad for the people/dogs around, but it's bad for the dog himself. Some people bring in aggressive dogs with muzzles, but that just makes the breed look worse.
I have a Great Pyr that is very male dog aggressive,I wouldnt dream of taking him in a public place with other dogs around.When we go to the vet they clear a path and straight to a room.
I believe if they guy needed to go and get his dogs their rabie shots that he should have muzzled them.I know muzzles look bad to but atleast you are looking like a responsible dog owner.I dont agree with parading your dog around in a muzzle but for certian things like that rabie clinic or vet trip or somewhere you have to take them a muzzle is a good thing.
 

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Some people bring in aggressive dogs with muzzles, but that just makes the breed look worse.
I don't think that is a valid reason for DA dog owners to not muzzle their dogs. They owe it to other dogs out there to be responsible, not matter what the breed. It's unfortunate for the dog, but if he is DA and in public, what other responsible options are there?
 

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The dog might not have been DA at all. Cats are an easy target for prey drive and seeing that cat could set the dog off and end up causing him to redirect on anybody in the immediate vicinty. I am in no way condoning the owner's actions and lack of action to properly control his dogs. But saying that all DA dogs should be locked up forever is absurd. That doesn't help anybody except the owner that feels inconvenienced by it. ALL dogs needs to be under control and/or properly contained by a leash or fenced area.
 

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"Locked up forever" might seem harsh, but if you've had a severely DA dog, it makes sense. It for the DA dog's benefit, too. They get so riled up, it cannot be good for them.

I would never have dreamed of bringing Muggsy to a petstore or dog park. Not ever. I was a bit jealous of people who could sit in the vet's waiting room, but that wasn't my dog. Under my watch, Muggsy bit exactly 1 dog, that was how I found out he was DA. After that, he didn't get opportunities to attack. That's what owning a DA dog is.

I don't think the rabies clinic was well run, though. Usually, they have a separate line for DA (or otherwise aggressing) dogs. I know it seems stupid to put all the DA dogs in one place, but it does keep them away from all the other dogs, and it's not like they were having a good day in that situation anyway.
 

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My point of this post is...if you have a dog breed that is known to be DA why would you take them out in public around a pack of dogs and cats not muzzled? this only adds to the bad rap these dogs get.:doh:
The problem was not that the man brought a dog BREED known to be DA out and about, but rather that he brought a specific dog that was dog aggressive to a crowded area without taking proper precautions.

I know what you are trying to say, but the wording of it bugged me because it reads like anyone with that BREED should have them muzzled while out in a pack of dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The problem was not that the man brought a dog BREED known to be DA out and about, but rather that he brought a specific dog that was dog aggressive to a crowded area without taking proper precautions.

I know what you are trying to say, but the wording of it bugged me because it reads like anyone with that BREED should have them muzzled while out in a pack of dogs.

No sorry..I was getting across for him allowing this to happen just makes the "pit"dog families look worse or reinerates(sp?) what people think about them already,he was bound to know he was DA to some degree.With all the media negativity anyone that owns this breed needs to take extra precautions to NOT let things like this happen.
 

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I don't think that is a valid reason for DA dog owners to not muzzle their dogs. They owe it to other dogs out there to be responsible, not matter what the breed. It's unfortunate for the dog, but if he is DA and in public, what other responsible options are there?
I wasn't listing that as a valid reason for owners to not muzzle problem dogs. I work at a pet store, a DA dog, muzzle or no muzzle, does not belong in my store. There is absolutely no reason to bring your DA dog to a pet store, unlike the vet, it is not a necessity.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I wasn't listing that as a valid reason for owners to not muzzle problem dogs. I work at a pet store, a DA dog, muzzle or no muzzle, does not belong in my store. There is absolutely no reason to bring your DA dog to a pet store, unlike the vet, it is not a necessity.
I have to agree.I dont do it, and think its stupid when people do.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have to add,the place the clinic was held was a county that just banned pit ownership in the city limits.That was a dumb move for this guy with his two pits,now they may ban them in the country.This is the county my friend lives in.
 

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I wasn't listing that as a valid reason for owners to not muzzle problem dogs. I work at a pet store, a DA dog, muzzle or no muzzle, does not belong in my store. There is absolutely no reason to bring your DA dog to a pet store, unlike the vet, it is not a necessity.
If it is strictly a pet store, I agree. But there are a lot of pet stores that also have vet facilities, or even training and boarding (which may or may not accept a DA dog)- in which case, a properly fitted muzzle is a safe and humane option.

As for public places in general- parks, sidewalks, and other non-enclosed spaces - then I have no issue with people taking their properly controlled and muzzled if needed DA dogs out and about. While some people do see the muzzle as making the breed look worse, I respect people who make the effort to both give their dog a full life and provide for the safety of other dogs (or small animals). It protects THEIR dog should someone else be irresponsible and ignore the leash laws, let their dog run up to strange dogs and such.
 

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I grew up with a DA GSD. She even managed to kill a loose dog that chased us and bit my cousin before it was game on(my GSD was leashed and under control until that point). That being said, even as a teenager I had the common sense not to put her in these situations. There's a host of options this guy could've taken to avoid the sh!t show waiting in line.
1. Bring another person that can wait in the car with the dogs.
2. Wait outside with the dogs and let the staff know where to find him.
3. Bring only one dog to the clinic and a muzzle.
4. Get off his phone and remove the dogs from that situation.
5. Pull his head out of his @$$.

All great options.

I still am not pro-locking away DA dogs forever. My GSD never would've killed that other dog if it hadn't been roaming loose and unsupervised because she wouldn't have had any opportunities. She was leashed and under control for exercise in the public and only in areas that require leashes on all dogs. She did not go to dog parks. We waited outside at the vets office and our vet was happy to meet us out there when it was her turn. We also bought a muzzle to walk through the waiting room just in case.
 

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In regards to what Shell said about protecting the DA dog from themselves: My GSD was protected by the city ordinances where we lived. The woman that owned the loose dog wasted no time in calling the cops. All they did was remind her that leash laws are in place. I realize that this isn't the case for all cities and towns just my experience.
 

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In regards to what Shell said about protecting the DA dog from themselves: My GSD was protected by the city ordinances where we lived. The woman that owned the loose dog wasted no time in calling the cops. All they did was remind her that leash laws are in place. I realize that this isn't the case for all cities and towns just my experience.
Leash laws do help a lot in terms of being "at fault" but, at least here, if a dog bites another dog off the owner's property then it can be deemed an aggressive dog and a whole bunch of requirements come into play- like requiring a 4 ft leash, requiring a secure outdoor containment with a dig-proof bottom and a roof/cover (so, even a 6 ft privacy fence isn't sufficient) etc and of course, your homeowners or renters insurance may drop you or raise your rates massively. If you were following the leash law, you're protected a lot more than if you weren't (and the owner of the loose dog has less standing against you) but a bite can still cause big problems, aside from the harm to the other dog.

Ounce of prevention and all that.
 

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I still am not pro-locking away DA dogs forever. My GSD never would've killed that other dog if it hadn't been roaming loose and unsupervised because she wouldn't have had any opportunities. She was leashed and under control for exercise in the public and only in areas that require leashes on all dogs. She did not go to dog parks. We waited outside at the vets office and our vet was happy to meet us out there when it was her turn. We also bought a muzzle to walk through the waiting room just in case.
I'm not pro not walking your DA dog. I trained Muggsy to behave on a leash and used a muzzle while doing so. Walks are necessary for physical and mental well being. Pet stores, parades, dog parks, etc. are not. Why people want their out of control, lunging, barking, completely stressed dog in those situations is beyond me.

I also agree that pit bull owners have a greater responsibility than the owners of other breeds. If Kabota bites someone, nobody is going to start hating on Golden Retriever mixes or suggest banning them. But let one dog that looks sorta like a pit bull nip at someone and it's BSL time.

A dog that may possibly have had some APBT in him, though I doubt it, attacked a 79 year old woman, knocking her down and breaking her arm. The next day, they called an emergency City Council meeting to propose BSL. The only thing that held off the BSL was the city plunging into bankruptcy and being unable to pay its police department and fire fighters. Hopefully, by the time the financial situation is sorted out, people will have calmed down and the call for BSL will just fade away, but who knows?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm not pro not walking your DA dog. I trained Muggsy to behave on a leash and used a muzzle while doing so. Walks are necessary for physical and mental well being. Pet stores, parades, dog parks, etc. are not. Why people want their out of control, lunging, barking, completely stressed dog in those situations is beyond me.

I also agree that pit bull owners have a greater responsibility than the owners of other breeds. If Kabota bites someone, nobody is going to start hating on Golden Retriever mixes or suggest banning them. But let one dog that looks sorta like a pit bull nip at someone and it's BSL time.

A dog that may possibly have had some APBT in him, though I doubt it, attacked a 79 year old woman, knocking her down and breaking her arm. The next day, they called an emergency City Council meeting to propose BSL. The only thing that held off the BSL was the city plunging into bankruptcy and being unable to pay its police department and fire fighters. Hopefully, by the time the financial situation is sorted out, people will have calmed down and the call for BSL will just fade away, but who knows?
I agree,it only takes 1 incident before they are looking at the whole breed and not just that dog or owner.
 

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I wasn't listing that as a valid reason for owners to not muzzle problem dogs. I work at a pet store, a DA dog, muzzle or no muzzle, does not belong in my store. There is absolutely no reason to bring your DA dog to a pet store, unlike the vet, it is not a necessity.
I agree with you, but if they are going to do it anyways, and if there is no way to stop them, I would think that they should choose to muzzle the dog and not worry about the impact on the breed. If it doesn't have a muzzle on and bites another dog, that is going to have a much more negative outcome for not just the breed but the DA dog and the poor dog that it attacks...My point is just that people should not worry about "how it looks" when they muzzle a dog. If I had a DA dog and I HAD to take it into public (not talking about a pet store) then I would muzzle the dog no matter what. Who cares how it looks you are doing the right thing.
 

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I agree,it only takes 1 incident before they are looking at the whole breed and not just that dog or owner.
Sadly, sometimes it doesn't even take an incident from the breed in question. A few weeks ago here, the news was breathlessly reporting that a "pit bull" had bit off a kid's hand. It was actually a sheltie that bit the kid's hand and did not seriously injure the kid, but want to bet how many people saw the short correction the news issued once they found out it was a sheltie?

That type of thing is why we work hard to promote a positive and fair representation of the pit bull type dog. Teaching people to look at dog's as individuals, teaching responsible ownership of ALL breeds (good positive training, options for training equipment that suits different dogs), taking pits on visits to schools to teach kids how to greet dogs and treat them nicely, taking pits to the hospital for kids so they have something to cheer them up (cuddly people loving dogs are such great therapy) and dispelling myths about the breed so people are less likely to blindly believe everything the media tells them.
 

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I agree with you, but if they are going to do it anyways, and if there is no way to stop them, I would think that they should choose to muzzle the dog and not worry about the impact on the breed. If it doesn't have a muzzle on and bites another dog, that is going to have a much more negative outcome for not just the breed but the DA dog and the poor dog that it attacks...My point is just that people should not worry about "how it looks" when they muzzle a dog. If I had a DA dog and I HAD to take it into public (not talking about a pet store) then I would muzzle the dog no matter what. Who cares how it looks you are doing the right thing.
A muzzled aggressive dog is still an aggressive dog. A Pit Bull lunging at other dogs and growling in public negatively impacts the breed much more than a muzzle.
 
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