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Yeah I think it's fair to say that. It was a really extreme example and I think most people vegan or not don't feel that way about the cow thing...

But I will say that in my limited experience with vegans (like 2 people, really) they were really horrible to anyone they met that ate meat. They would go on and on about how we were murderers and scum just for eating meat, and it just made it really hard to take them seriously when they would use outrageous examples (like the cow thing, not the first time I've heard that, heard it from the few vegans I met) but the people here make some pretty good points.
It's quite possible that you know far more vegans than those 2 people. Again, most vegans don't comment on what other people eat, explain their dietary choices, or rant about issues surrounding food. There are probably people you know who you don't know are vegan; they don't come with special identifying marks or introduce themselves as "Hi, I'm Sue and I'm a vegan." For example, I work with a large group of people and only a very small number know I'm vegan. Even people I've had meals with don't always know.
 

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I'm sorry you met people like that. They wouldn't be people I'd want to spend time with either. I've put up with more than my fair share of abuse over the years, entirely unprovoked; name calling, interrogating, people literally waving meat in my face, putting meat in my food because they think it's funny, feeding me "vegan" things only to later tell me they put dairy in it because they didn't think a little would hurt, to which I think "Oh, that explains why I've been sick for the past two days." I've more than once politely excused myself from a meal because I just couldn't eat with the unrelenting ridicule. I don't fight back, I don't retaliate, I never, ever engage in discussions about vegetarianism or meat eating in a dining situation. I will only have respectful conversations, and if it starts to get anything but, I end it. I could very easily see how veg*ns could be on the offensive because we do often put up with a lot, but I don't think it helps anything. I think it makes things worse. I'm embarrassed by the way some other vegans behave, and if I had the power to apologize on behalf of those people I would.
 

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It's quite possible that you know far more vegans than those 2 people. Again, most vegans don't comment on what other people eat, explain their dietary choices, or rant about issues surrounding food. There are probably people you know who you don't know are vegan; they don't come with special identifying marks or introduce themselves as "Hi, I'm Sue and I'm a vegan." For example, I work with a large group of people and only a very small number know I'm vegan. Even people I've had meals with don't always know.
Yes, I know, I just recently found out my boss is a vegetarian at a pizza party :) I think that's the way it should be, I don't need to know if you eat meat or not, I'm not eating it so who cares? And how the heck do their pets eating meat have anything to do with it, lol. I agree vegans and vegetarians with pets aren't hypocrites.
 

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I'm sorry you met people like that. They wouldn't be people I'd want to spend time with either. I've put up with more than my fair share of abuse over the years, entirely unprovoked; name calling, interrogating, people literally waving meat in my face, putting meat in my food because they think it's funny, feeding me "vegan" things only to later tell me they put dairy in it because they didn't think a little would hurt, to which I think "Oh, that explains why I've been sick for the past two days." I've more than once politely excused myself from a meal because I just couldn't eat with the unrelenting ridicule. I don't fight back, I don't retaliate, I never, ever engage in discussions about vegetarianism or meat eating in a dining situation. I will only have respectful conversations, and if it starts to get anything but, I end it. I could very easily see how veg*ns could be on the offensive because we do often put up with a lot, but I don't think it helps anything. I think it makes things worse. I'm embarrassed by the way some other vegans behave, and if I had the power to apologize on behalf of those people I would.
It's alright, I don't think all vegans are like that, just the few I met were like that. And I hear a ton of vegan jokes all the time and teasing, so I guess if you look at it that way I have known more meat eaters to be bullies than vegans. And that's really awful about the dairy, I am lactose intolerant so I can really relate to you on that! Sorry for the meat eating bullies :(
 

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I wanted to reply to JohnnyBandit in the previous thread (so I could quote), but since it's off topic there, I'll do it here...

I think you really need to be careful about labels. IMO the people who destroy property in the name of animal rights should not be called vegans. Some of them might indeed be vegans, but since this term only really defines one's diet (not one's actions), I think there are better terms. For example, you could call these people animal rights activists. As I stated previously, there are plenty of valid reasons for vegetariansm/veganism, and they are not all related to AR. By calling the vandals vegans, you are villainizing all vegans, most of whom are pacifists and law-abiding citizens.

I also wanted to respond to the post about veganism being unhealthy. There's a lot of data out there showing that a vegan lifestyle improves overall heath and prevents disease. My favorite book on the subject is The China Study - it is extremely well referenced so that you can look up the studies yourself. I'm not sure what this particular poster was eating, but it can't have been a balanced vegan diet. For those who are curious, a balanced vegan meal would generally include some kind of legume, some kind of veggie, some kind of fruit, and some kind of grain. Those who are 100% vegan should take B12 supplements. That's it - it's really quite simple. Now, the fun part that most meat-eaters don't realize: when you're not eating meat or dairy, you tend to get super creative. The variety of foods consumed by a vegan can be pretty astounding. For example, on my menu today was orange juice, homemade corn fritters, a homemade vegetable soup with a tomato and peanut broth base (~20 ingredients all by itself), brown rice, edamame, fresh pineapple, wheat tortilla, homemade hummus, mushrooms, olive tapenade, raw beets, carrots, baby greens, apple cider, and air popped popcorn with everything-but-the-kitchen-sink topping. Besides the variety, the quantity can be pretty astounding. As a rule, vegans don't really think about calories. I eat until I'm full, then I eat some more, and still I burn it all. Weight becomes a non-issue. I find that cravings tend to disappear when I'm getting a good variety of foods. My taste buds sort of woke up to the tastes of real foods when I quit eating the processed stuff.

From my own experience, eating (mostly) vegan has improved both my physical and mental heath. Since adopting this lifestyle, I wake up feeling alive and ready to conquer the day. My actions are not limited in any way by my physical abilities, and I suspect that it will be many, many years before they are. I don't get colds anymore, I haven't needed to fill a prescription in several years, my eyesight is amazing, my skin and hair look healthier than they have in years, my allergies never flare up, my metabolism is raging fast, and friends have started to ask me why I'm not aging. Just for the health benefits alone, this is a lifestyle that I see myself maintaining for the long term.

Actually, this is one of the main reasons I get so irritated when people try to paint all vegans with the same AR brush. It's pretty easy for a meat-eater to dismiss a vegan's choices if they don't support animal rights. But it's harder to dismiss the health benefits of veganism - everyone cares about their health.
Pretty much agree and nicely said. I only disagree with your statement "but since this term only really defines one's diet". In fact, vegan refers to not only diet, but a person who does not use animal products in all facets of their life.
 

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Pretty much agree and nicely said. I only disagree with your statement "but since this term only really defines one's diet". In fact, vegan refers to not only diet, but a person who does not use animal products in all facets of their life.

I agree, for many it goes WAY beyond diet. It surrounds their life.

And that is okay....


Meat in some ways works it way into every corner of my life.
 

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November first is World Vegan Day.... I am not a vegan and I know that.... Lots of protests, etc on that day.
Quite frankly, I've never seen or heard of a vegan protest. For me, that makes little sense. As a whole I don't think of vegans as belligerent people who stage protests. Where I come from, they're more interested in staging farmers markets and vegan potlucks. Now I could definitely see AR activists staging a protest and getting belligerent about it.

For those who have said that veganism isn't just about diet, there are different kinds of vegans. Dietary vegans only care about what they eat. Ethical vegans oppose the use of animal products for any purpose.

Meat in some ways works it way into every corner of my life.
I realize that this could be conceived as hitting below the belt, because I'm taking information from other threads. Please know that I don't mean to be insensitive here, but I have to ask...

You've posted before about health problems, most recently about an upcoming surgery for a condition that is exacerbated by weight. Do you recognize that overconsumption of meat is strongly linked to obesity? If so, do you enjoy meat enough to sacrifice your health for it?
 

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My grandfather was a rancher. Prior to that, my family were sharecropper farmers for multiple generations.

I do not farm now but at my height of farming,

I leased 1000 acres of pasture, had about 100 brood cows, 200 additional acres in hay, another 65 acres in crops. I grew strawberries in winter, and usually melons or peppers in the spring. sometimes squash...

I have been in the wholesale meat business since 1984 except for a four year hiatus when I sold tractors and farm equipment.
My average week these days, I sell around 250 tho 350 thousand pounds of meat. Not the company I work for, that is my sales. I have sold over a million pounds of meat in a single week on a number of times.
I sell, beef, pork, chicken, lamb, veal, turkey, rabbits, quail, etc

I also hunt and have my entire life. Additionally I do nuisance wildlife control. Mostly these days I focus on coyotes and feral hogs.

I am also politically involved. Dog owners rights, farming and ranching issues, sportsmans rights, game management issues. One of the things I am working on right now is bringing back a hunting season on black bears in Florida. I am also working on trying to get a deterrent program in place to push the over abundance of bears we have invading suburban and urban areas back into the woods.
You would think AR would embrace a non lethal bear management strategy. But no they are fighting that.


So anyway.... Given my life and lifestyle.... I am over exposed to the militant side of both AR and veganism.

I GET why I am a target. Does not make it right. But I get it.
 

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An over consumption of grain and carbs leads to fat. Carbs= sugar= (if unused, which it usually is) stored fat which is supposed to be used later but rarely is now a days by most ppl. Guaranteed if he stopped eating grains and high carbs and starchy foods his health would improve greatly, more so then if he stopped eating meat.

No carbs = burning stored fat for energy.

Simplified science but if I need to get all technical and bring chemistry into it, I have no problem with that :)
 

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Quite frankly, I've never seen or heard of a vegan protest. For me, that makes little sense. As a whole I don't think of vegans as belligerent people who stage protests. Where I come from, they're more interested in staging farmers markets and vegan potlucks. Now I could definitely see AR activists staging a protest and getting belligerent about it.

For those who have said that veganism isn't just about diet, there are different kinds of vegans. Dietary vegans only care about what they eat. Ethical vegans oppose the use of animal products for any purpose.



I realize that this could be conceived as hitting below the belt, because I'm taking information from other threads. Please know that I don't mean to be insensitive here, but I have to ask...

You've posted before about health problems, most recently about an upcoming surgery for a condition that is exacerbated by weight. Do you recognize that overconsumption of meat is strongly linked to obesity? If so, do you enjoy meat enough to sacrifice your health for it?
Lots of vegan protests. In fact protests in the name of veganism alone likely exceed AR protests.


As for me... yes I have health issues. And at times I have over indulged in meat.
But for me meat has never been the source of my issues. The grains, carbs, breads, starchy foods, etc are my poisons.

I actually eat much less meat than you would expect. And probably day in and day out I eat far less than the average American. And what I do eat is largely game (mostly deer but small game as well) and fish that I harvest myself.

And I do not mind you bringing up my issues.... I am an open book. But my personal demons are separate from the overall issue. And meat is never really been my issue. It is the other stuff on the plate. Right now I would punch someone in the mouth for a plate of mashed potatoes.
But I digress....
 

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An over consumption of grain and carbs leads to fat. Carbs= sugar= (if unused, which it usually is) stored fat which is supposed to be used later but rarely is now a days by most ppl. Guaranteed if he stopped eating grains and high carbs and starchy foods his health would improve greatly, more so then if he stopped eating meat.

No carbs = burning stored fat for energy.

Simplified science but if I need to get all technical and bring chemistry into it, I have no problem with that :)
This is my problem.... I have basically been diagnosed with an addiction to carbs.

In fact my dietician I have been seeing since December has upped my meat intake. To about twice what I was eating on my own..... She has cut the HECK and completely eleminated some other things.
 

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Have you checked out the Paleo diet? The whole caveman philosophy behind it is complete junk but there's some great low carb diets on some of the blogs. Honestly, I don't even miss breads and pastas anymore (I was an Italian food junky). Plus, I love how there's so much available on making everything yourself instead of buying processed stuff. (Dressings, mayo, sauces, etc are all easy to make from scratch without the crappy oils and other unnecessary ingredients that most manufactured products have added into them.)
 

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Discussion Starter #53
An over consumption of grain and carbs leads to fat. Carbs= sugar= (if unused, which it usually is) stored fat which is supposed to be used later but rarely is now a days by most ppl. Guaranteed if he stopped eating grains and high carbs and starchy foods his health would improve greatly, more so then if he stopped eating meat.

No carbs = burning stored fat for energy.

Simplified science but if I need to get all technical and bring chemistry into it, I have no problem with that :)
I try to limit my carb intake as well, because as well as calories because I tend to gain weight when I eat a lot of carbs or calories.
 

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I'm not vegan/vegetarian, but I want to one day be completely plant based. It'll be a gradual transition, but I know it is possible. Before my son became ill, I was eating clean, rarely consumed meat, and only ate cheese in small amounts. I'm aware of the AR stuff usually associated with veganism, but I honestly don't have the time to worry about it. I'd be doing it for health, not AR (which is why I refer to it as plant based).

Carbs are ridiculously addictive. JB, I have no idea what - or if - you're trying to change your diet, but even limiting how much carbs you consume can really help. A good example is limiting carbs to 1/3 of your meal, with the other 2/3 being comprised of meat/veggies. Its a great start to kicking the carb addiction. Once that's comfortable, you can portion your carbs out to 1/4. It helped me drop weight and kick my carb addiction (well, until my son became sick.) I've not read your thread, but good luck to you and your illness.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
I don't eat much meat not because I am against it but because I just plain don't have an appetite for meat LOL. I also don't have a problem with those who choose to be plant based ... as long as they don't chastise me or the meat industry when they don't know the whole story ... at least in my area it is nonsense to say that you cant use your well of you live in the vicinity of a feedlot, I live down the street from one and we have the cleanest purist water you can imagine. and yes, we do have a rainy season here, usually in the late winter/spring.

I would also like to add that I would NEVER mess with someone's food for spite just because they are vegan, for all I know, it could be because of health reasons, like hambonez
 

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I'm not yet a vegetarian or a vegan, but I see the choices I make moving more and more in that direction. I don't care to comment on the moral perspective because that's my compass we're using, not yours. So that's about as far as I need to go there.

As far as my choices, they are personal ones. Seeing how my family eats, witnessing their health, and valuing mine, I've been on a path to what I think are better choices, and that has meant eliminating meat and dairy. As a result, I'm finding animal products less tasty/important, and the converse of vegis. I wasn't expecting that.

I also wasn't expecting to find more energy in this transition. As I move my way through another marathon cycle, it's been important to make sure I'm fueling my body with what it needs. So far I'm hitting my training marks more regularly, sleeping better, and I'm likely the most fit I've ever been. I'll take it and see what more can come of it.

Beyond that, I really don't bother telling people how to improve their lives - that choice needs to come from within. I believe I've improved mine by eliminating animals from my diet. Not much can be argued there.
 

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love all food :) do love meat, first 5 years of sourcing bulk cases of meat for 15 dogs each month changed my life forever.. I can't walk pass the meat department in any grocery store without getting queezy... Just the condition of the meat directly from the processing plant that I would receive (seeing the original processing dates before they get new stamps at the store) I couldn't eat it and didn't even want to feed it to my dogs nor can I think about eating out any more. I always thought it was strange how my dogs got sick off the ground beef.. and to find out now about the sludge products I am not surprised. So many things no matter where I went to source human grade meat for the dogs on a commercial plant level going to your local stores was disturbing for what it looks like before it gets cleaned up, doctored up and put into pretty packages for everyone to buy, that meat is about 30 to 40 days old refrigerated temps only with a new 3 week expiration date stamped on it..

Raise my own for the dogs and eat them myself. Depend on the farmer markets for veggies/fruits. I respect peoples personal choices if they want to be vegan both ethical and health , or want to hunt... It seems silly even to me that I don't care for wild life hunting as I would never do it,, but I have no trouble butchering my own so I can understand the necessity for hunting. On the health issue 100% about meat,, heard for years that cooking a goose or duck there were be overflows of grease so much that your oven could catch on fire.. But with my free range pasture geese and ducks I don't get that type of grease when I cook them.. and there has to be a reason for how they are fed and raised.. I lean towards that it's not what you eat, it is where it comes from that matters more.
 

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Rather than going vegetarian or vegan in the sense of animal activism, I've chosen to use care when purchasing my meats, eggs, milk, etc. and purchase grass-fed, free range, organic (when possible). This of course doesn't take away the fact that the animals are still, in some cases, butchered for their products....but at least leading up to that they had a life outside of a dirty, cramped cage or crowded pen. I also buy local whenever possible.

I do believe that for a healthful diet, we should limit animal products. We eat animal products in moderation, and always antibiotic/nitrate-free. I spend a lot more this way on groceries, but it's worth it. We also eat a lot of plants and do a lot of juicing too.
 

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Rather than going vegetarian or vegan in the sense of animal activism, I've chosen to use care when purchasing my meats, eggs, milk, etc. and purchase grass-fed, free range, organic (when possible). This of course doesn't take away the fact that the animals are still, in some cases, butchered for their products....but at least leading up to that they had a life outside of a dirty, cramped cage or crowded pen. I also buy local whenever possible.

I do believe that for a healthful diet, we should limit animal products. We eat animal products in moderation, and always antibiotic/nitrate-free. I spend a lot more this way on groceries, but it's worth it. We also eat a lot of plants and do a lot of juicing too.
This is basically what we do as well, when we can. Once we have more flexibility with our income we'll be going moreso, and we intend to keep our own chickens for eggs and a veggie garden/etc, once we have a house.

I don't really care what someone else chooses for themselves (vegan, vegetarian, etc), since it doesn't effect me.
 

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I don't eat much meat not because I am against it but because I just plain don't have an appetite for meat LOL. I also don't have a problem with those who choose to be plant based ... as long as they don't chastise me or the meat industry
If you've seen what goes on in the commercial meat industry and are comfortable with it for your own diet, super. But you can't understand at all how someone else can see the same thing and NOT be comfortable with it in their diet and may choose to "chastise" it? People can have varying opinions and if you are comfortable with your choices it shouldn't matter to you what other people say.

I do hope you've had your well tested for antibiotic runoff and e.coli.
 
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