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This is a spin off so the thread all this started on doesn't get derailed any further. post your opinions, reasons for going Vegetarian/Vegan and why or post why you don't and why.

I eat meat sometimes, in fact tonight I dined on baby back ribs and sausage. I eat cheese and dairy ... though not milk because I simply don't care for it. I actually love veggies and often chose to eat them in preference to meat in many cases. I have actually been asked if I am Vegetarian/Vegan lol. I am not and I don't mind if anyone else is, nor do I think that if a Vegetarian/Vegan owned a carnivore that they are a hypocrite for feeding their carnivore meat. I disagree with this one point, I would rather see them NOT forcing their beliefs on their carnivorous pets then forcing them to eat Vegetarian food that is not good for them.
 

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I eat meat, but not too much & when I eat meat I mostly eat venison. I mostly consume fruits, walnuts, & veggies throughout the day. The reason I eat like that is for a variety of reasons such as: health reasons and feeling good about myself, the idea of factory farms with the diseases that goes with it sickens me, makes me a stronger runner, & most deer around here if they aren't shot then they either die from disease and/or starvation-I think being shot would be a better way to go out.
 

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I come from generation after generation of farmers and ranchers. My parents were the first generation out of ranching and most my relatives own cattle operations or farms or dairies. Everyone hunts too and my fridge is full of game meat.

I try to eat most my meat from my grandpa's farm or stuff my dad hunts. I wish I was capable of hunting myself, but I get squeamish. I really feel like I should be able to hunt since I eat meat so it's a goal I have one day. I do fish and have eaten plenty of fish that I've caught though.
 

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I eat meat, but not too much & when I eat meat I mostly eat venison. I mostly consume fruits, walnuts, & veggies throughout the day. The reason I eat like that is for a variety of reasons such as: health reasons and feeling good about myself, the idea of factory farms with the diseases that goes with it sickens me, makes me a stronger runner, & most deer around here if they aren't shot then they either die from disease and/or starvation-I think being shot would be a better way to go out.

Factory farm is a term coined by the animal rights movement.

Our on the hoof meat supply in the modern day livestock production practices is cleaner, more free of disease and safer than it has ever been.
 

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I have been vegetarian most of my life, and vegan for a decade. I personally cannot mentally separate meat from the animal it came from, and I am not comfortable eating animals. I don't believe that moderate meat consumption is wrong, though I think it's wrong for me. I do think as an industry, it is problematic, to put it lightly. To produce meat at the rate and price people would like to consume it, it requires a very large amount of resources (land/feed/water/medications), and creates a lot of waste and pollution. The amount of antibiotics used in the production of meat is creating dangerous antibiotic resistance. As someone who has had superinfections, I can say from personal experience that they are scary and dangerous and highly unpleasant. I believe that the volume of meat consumed by the average American is not healthy. I would have no objections if all meat consumed came from small farms with humanely raised animals, or was hunted by the consumer... but even if that was the case, for me, personally, I would not be able to eat it, because it would still be made of animals, and that doesn't sit well with me.

If you want to draw a comparison - it's like saying I support responsible breeding of dogs, but I don't support backyard breeders. For myself, however, I will always rescue my animals.

With regards to milk - the cow rape comment made me cringe. There's no value in making statements like that. It doesn't advance any cause, it just puts people off and gives those who want it, more ammo. I don't consume dairy for various reasons similar to those for not consuming meat - even though dairy isn't a dead animal, it suffers the same environmental problems as factory farmed meat.

With regards to eggs - ethically, from an animal welfare perspective, it is more humane to eat chicken meat than eggs. Again, this applies to factory farmed eggs, which are how the majority of the eggs in our system are produced. Phrases like "organic" "free range" and "cage free" have little practical meaning. Chickens are kept in poor conditions and laying hens are forced to produce at an unnatural rate. While a chicken for eating is generally slaughtered by the time they're 2 months old, laying hens are forced to live much longer in poor conditions. There is also the ethical issue with male chicks being killed because, obviously, they can't lay. There are small scale local farms that have truly free range chickens, and I think that's a better choice if someone wishes to consume eggs. Or one could keep their own backyard chickens.

Unfortunately in any group, there are going to be some loud, passionate, misguided, pushy people who make the rest of the group look like extremist nutjobs. I get that, and it bothers me when people truly believe that it is representative of the group. There are a lot of us who quietly eat our veggies that you wouldn't even know were veg unless you saw how we ate or asked us. Furthermore, individuals on both sides do their side disservice by essentially saying "A meat eater/vegan was rude to me once, so I can justify being rude to all meat eaters/vegans!" I don't see it as being any different than being racist or sexist. FWIW, I think PETA are an entire group of extremist nutjobs, and I don't personally know a single veg*n who supports them. I think they hurt "the cause" more than help it.

ETA: I'm not going to argue any of this because I don't feel that it's necessary. People who are interested in the viewpoint of a vegan, well, there it is. I'm always happy to answer respectful questions, but I don't engage in argument or debate about it because there is no reason to. It's not my place to make a decision for other people about what they're comfortable with, and I would appreciate the same respect for my choices.
 

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I have been vegetarian most of my life, and vegan for a decade. I personally cannot mentally separate meat from the animal it came from, and I am not comfortable eating animals. I don't believe that moderate meat consumption is wrong, though I think it's wrong for me. I do think as an industry, it is problematic, to put it lightly. To produce meat at the rate and price people would like to consume it, it requires a very large amount of resources (land/feed/water/medications), and creates a lot of waste and pollution. The amount of antibiotics used in the production of meat is creating dangerous antibiotic resistance. As someone who has had superinfections, I can say from personal experience that they are scary and dangerous and highly unpleasant. I believe that the volume of meat consumed by the average American is not healthy. I would have no objections if all meat consumed came from small farms with humanely raised animals, or was hunted by the consumer... but even if that was the case, for me, personally, I would not be able to eat it, because it would still be made of animals, and that doesn't sit well with me.

If you want to draw a comparison - it's like saying I support responsible breeding of dogs, but I don't support backyard breeders. For myself, however, I will always rescue my animals.

With regards to milk - the cow rape comment made me cringe. There's no value in making statements like that. It doesn't advance any cause, it just puts people off and gives those who want it, more ammo. I don't consume dairy for various reasons similar to those for not consuming meat - even though dairy isn't a dead animal, it suffers the same environmental problems as factory farmed meat.

With regards to eggs - ethically, from an animal welfare perspective, it is more humane to eat chicken meat than eggs. Again, this applies to factory farmed eggs, which are how the majority of the eggs in our system are produced. Phrases like "organic" "free range" and "cage free" have little practical meaning. Chickens are kept in poor conditions and laying hens are forced to produce at an unnatural rate. While a chicken for eating is generally slaughtered by the time they're 2 months old, laying hens are forced to live much longer in poor conditions. There is also the ethical issue with male chicks being killed because, obviously, they can't lay. There are small scale local farms that have truly free range chickens, and I think that's a better choice if someone wishes to consume eggs. Or one could keep their own backyard chickens.

Unfortunately in any group, there are going to be some loud, passionate, misguided, pushy people who make the rest of the group look like extremist nutjobs. I get that, and it bothers me when people truly believe that it is representative of the group. There are a lot of us who quietly eat our veggies that you wouldn't even know were veg unless you saw how we ate or asked us. Furthermore, individuals on both sides do their side disservice by essentially saying "A meat eater/vegan was rude to me once, so I can justify being rude to all meat eaters/vegans!" I don't see it as being any different than being racist or sexist. FWIW, I think PETA are an entire group of extremist nutjobs, and I don't personally know a single veg*n who supports them. I think they hurt "the cause" more than help it.

ETA: I'm not going to argue any of this because I don't feel that it's necessary. People who are interested in the viewpoint of a vegan, well, there it is. I'm always happy to answer respectful questions, but I don't engage in argument or debate about it because there is no reason to. It's not my place to make a decision for other people about what they're comfortable with, and I would appreciate the same respect for my choices.
Well said!
 

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I wanted to reply to JohnnyBandit in the previous thread (so I could quote), but since it's off topic there, I'll do it here...

I think you really need to be careful about labels. IMO the people who destroy property in the name of animal rights should not be called vegans. Some of them might indeed be vegans, but since this term only really defines one's diet (not one's actions), I think there are better terms. For example, you could call these people animal rights activists. As I stated previously, there are plenty of valid reasons for vegetariansm/veganism, and they are not all related to AR. By calling the vandals vegans, you are villainizing all vegans, most of whom are pacifists and law-abiding citizens.

I also wanted to respond to the post about veganism being unhealthy. There's a lot of data out there showing that a vegan lifestyle improves overall heath and prevents disease. My favorite book on the subject is The China Study - it is extremely well referenced so that you can look up the studies yourself. I'm not sure what this particular poster was eating, but it can't have been a balanced vegan diet. For those who are curious, a balanced vegan meal would generally include some kind of legume, some kind of veggie, some kind of fruit, and some kind of grain. Those who are 100% vegan should take B12 supplements. That's it - it's really quite simple. Now, the fun part that most meat-eaters don't realize: when you're not eating meat or dairy, you tend to get super creative. The variety of foods consumed by a vegan can be pretty astounding. For example, on my menu today was orange juice, homemade corn fritters, a homemade vegetable soup with a tomato and peanut broth base (~20 ingredients all by itself), brown rice, edamame, fresh pineapple, wheat tortilla, homemade hummus, mushrooms, olive tapenade, raw beets, carrots, baby greens, apple cider, and air popped popcorn with everything-but-the-kitchen-sink topping. Besides the variety, the quantity can be pretty astounding. As a rule, vegans don't really think about calories. I eat until I'm full, then I eat some more, and still I burn it all. Weight becomes a non-issue. I find that cravings tend to disappear when I'm getting a good variety of foods. My taste buds sort of woke up to the tastes of real foods when I quit eating the processed stuff.

From my own experience, eating (mostly) vegan has improved both my physical and mental heath. Since adopting this lifestyle, I wake up feeling alive and ready to conquer the day. My actions are not limited in any way by my physical abilities, and I suspect that it will be many, many years before they are. I don't get colds anymore, I haven't needed to fill a prescription in several years, my eyesight is amazing, my skin and hair look healthier than they have in years, my allergies never flare up, my metabolism is raging fast, and friends have started to ask me why I'm not aging. Just for the health benefits alone, this is a lifestyle that I see myself maintaining for the long term.

Actually, this is one of the main reasons I get so irritated when people try to paint all vegans with the same AR brush. It's pretty easy for a meat-eater to dismiss a vegan's choices if they don't support animal rights. But it's harder to dismiss the health benefits of veganism - everyone cares about their health.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am from Texas, I come from a family of hunters, my heritage is deep in the local stock show and rodeo, in fact my grandfather is the one who started the 4H scholarship program for the kids who compete with their animals that yes ... Go to slaughter after they are sold in the auction. So no don't none I those extremists come down here with their stuff about how eating meat is bad and I am a bad person for eating meat or dairy.

I don't care if you verbally say it or not, all vegans / vegetarians judge those who eat meat on some level. Where I don't judge someone who is vegan / vegatarian ... UNLESS they judge me first.
 

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I don't care if you verbally say it or not, all vegans / vegetarians judge those who eat meat on some level. Where I don't judge someone who is vegan / vegatarian ... UNLESS they judge me first.
Wait, WHAT??? Just no. I don't judge anyone for their choice. It's up to you entirely. Eat meat or don't, I don't care one way or the other.

The more I think about it, the more ridiculous this statement is. You say you won't judge anyone unless they judge you first, but the first part of the statement negates that - you've already decided that all vegans/vegetarians are judging you. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 

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I don't care if you verbally say it or not, all vegans / vegetarians judge those who eat meat on some level. Where I don't judge someone who is vegan / vegatarian ... UNLESS they judge me first.
That statement is completely and utterly false, i have a VEGAN friend who HUNTS and his family consumes meat, i do not eat meat but have NO ISSUES with other people eating what they want and i NEVER comment on what others are putting into their body EVER
 

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I wanted to reply to JohnnyBandit in the previous thread (so I could quote), but since it's off topic there, I'll do it here...

I think you really need to be careful about labels. IMO the people who destroy property in the name of animal rights should not be called vegans. Some of them might indeed be vegans, but since this term only really defines one's diet (not one's actions), I think there are better terms. For example, you could call these people animal rights activists. As I stated previously, there are plenty of valid reasons for vegetariansm/veganism, and they are not all related to AR. By calling the vandals vegans, you are villainizing all vegans, most of whom are pacifists and law-abiding citizens.

I also wanted to respond to the post about veganism being unhealthy. There's a lot of data out there showing that a vegan lifestyle improves overall heath and prevents disease. My favorite book on the subject is The China Study - it is extremely well referenced so that you can look up the studies yourself. I'm not sure what this particular poster was eating, but it can't have been a balanced vegan diet. For those who are curious, a balanced vegan meal would generally include some kind of legume, some kind of veggie, some kind of fruit, and some kind of grain. Those who are 100% vegan should take B12 supplements. That's it - it's really quite simple. Now, the fun part that most meat-eaters don't realize: when you're not eating meat or dairy, you tend to get super creative. The variety of foods consumed by a vegan can be pretty astounding. For example, on my menu today was orange juice, homemade corn fritters, a homemade vegetable soup with a tomato and peanut broth base (~20 ingredients all by itself), brown rice, edamame, fresh pineapple, wheat tortilla, homemade hummus, mushrooms, olive tapenade, raw beets, carrots, baby greens, apple cider, and air popped popcorn with everything-but-the-kitchen-sink topping. Besides the variety, the quantity can be pretty astounding. As a rule, vegans don't really think about calories. I eat until I'm full, then I eat some more, and still I burn it all. Weight becomes a non-issue. I find that cravings tend to disappear when I'm getting a good variety of foods. My taste buds sort of woke up to the tastes of real foods when I quit eating the processed stuff.

From my own experience, eating (mostly) vegan has improved both my physical and mental heath. Since adopting this lifestyle, I wake up feeling alive and ready to conquer the day. My actions are not limited in any way by my physical abilities, and I suspect that it will be many, many years before they are. I don't get colds anymore, I haven't needed to fill a prescription in several years, my eyesight is amazing, my skin and hair look healthier than they have in years, my allergies never flare up, my metabolism is raging fast, and friends have started to ask me why I'm not aging. Just for the health benefits alone, this is a lifestyle that I see myself maintaining for the long term.

Actually, this is one of the main reasons I get so irritated when people try to paint all vegans with the same AR brush. It's pretty easy for a meat-eater to dismiss a vegan's choices if they don't support animal rights. But it's harder to dismiss the health benefits of veganism - everyone cares about their health.
GREAT POST^ i was really bothered by the assumption that if you are vegan you must be an AR nut
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That statement is completely and utterly false, i have a VEGAN friend who HUNTS and his family consumes meat, i do not eat meat but have NO ISSUES with other people eating what they want and i NEVER comment on what others are putting into their body EVER
I can Garantee that you are not the norm, I suppose how people react to things is regional. Down here most (if not all) vegans and vegetarians are the point-the-finger AR nut.

I have no problem with those who don't forcd their choices on me.
 

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I wanted to reply to JohnnyBandit in the previous thread (so I could quote), but since it's off topic there, I'll do it here...

I think you really need to be careful about labels. IMO the people who destroy property in the name of animal rights should not be called vegans. Some of them might indeed be vegans, but since this term only really defines one's diet (not one's actions), I think there are better terms. For example, you could call these people animal rights activists. As I stated previously, there are plenty of valid reasons for vegetariansm/veganism, and they are not all related to AR. By calling the vandals vegans, you are villainizing all vegans, most of whom are pacifists and law-abiding citizens.

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I was as careful as I needed to be... I made it clear that it was NOT all vegans. But I stand by my statement that a segment of vegans are quite militant. When you have vandalism and property damage with only vegan themes. No Peta, No ALF, etc. That falls on vegans...
Especially when the vandalism at my employer over the last two years has happened on November 1st. In fact a fair number of meat, livestock etc related businesses are vandalized or damaged on November 1st. That falls squarely on the vegans.
When there are protests with no AR affiliation, no agenda other than veganism that falls on vegans. Vegan themed protests are quite common. If you do a youtube search on vegan protests, you will get more hits than if you do the same search on Peta protests.

Of course there is a ton of cross over... A good percentage of the serious AR people are vegan.
For many being vegan is a dietary choice...but for others it is a lifestyle and social agenda.

And there are plenty of misdeeds purely in the name of veganism. I was more than careful enough in choosing my statements.


And I do not care what someone eats. We entertain quite a bit. Two of my wife's good friends are vegans. My sister and a nephew are largely vegetarian. Heck sometimes it seems I cook three or four separate meals. If I invite you over, your diet choices will be accounted for.

Three things get me....

1) criminal acts in the name of someone's social beliefs.

2) forcing your choices in lifestyle on someone else.

3) spreading your agenda using fallacy, myth, fantasy, and outright lies.


What I find interesting.... Is that if some people get frustrated or upset by the light friendly banter that occurred on the other thread.... Well then if you ask me, they do not have that good a grasp or conviction on their reasons for their choices.
 

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There was NO such assumption.... The statements were clear.... If you took my statements to mean that, you took it there on your own.
I actually wasn't referring to you specifically, the main post that bothered me was the assumption that if you are a Vegan you are against responsible animal breeding
 

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GREAT POST^ i was really bothered by the assumption that if you are vegan you must be an AR nut

Here is what I said.... Note the bold....

As for who bullies who... or whom if you will.. It may happen at some level on both sides...

But the prize for bullying and harassment DEFINITELY goes to they vegans.
Vegans and groups dominated by vegans are constantly harassing, pestering and bullying people and businesses minding their own business.

Starbucks, KFC, sporting events, conventions, trade shows, etc get protested. acts of vandalism are commons. The different companies I have worked for have been vandalized numerous times. Too many to count.
Not long ago some climbed over our fence at our warehouse and wrote graffiti Meat is murder type stuff all over some of our trucks, on the building etc. I have been harassed heckled, etc. Had someone try to throw blood on me. etc. Virtually no one in the meat industry is immune. I have had my personal vehicle vandalized on two occasions.
I once had all six tires on my farm truck slashed/icepicked and the same on my trailer tires and anti meat crap spray painted on my vehicle. I stopped at a truck stop to get a quick bite and use the rest room. I come out and my equipment is sitting on the rims. Mid day, mid summer. I have 18 head of stock in a semi enclosed metal stock trailer.... In 95 degree heat. Their act could have killed my stock. I had no way to get my stock in the shade. No place to put them if I offloaded them. Just the middle of a paved parking lot. I had to call roadside assistance to replace my tires on sight. Almost three grand. I was LUCKY enough to find some road construction guys at the truck stop. They had a water truck down the road. I paid them to bring the truck so I could hose down my animals to keep them from stroking out and dying on me. Still the day cost me 3500 bucks. When you were 22 years old, could you afford an impromptu 3500 bill. That had to be paid then and there? Luckily I had a credit line with Farm Credit.

Not all Vegans are... But there is a sizable number of vegans that are very militant.
The Bully prize goes to Vegans...

When is the last time you heard of carnivores protesting a salad bar? A juice bar? A tofu factory? It just does not happen. Carnivores do not care if people choose to be vegans... Some vegans on the other hand, wear veganism as a social agenda and try to push and force it on others
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^ again i really wasn't referring to you, the post that bothered me the most was the one that assumed if you are Vegan you are against responsible animal breeding VEGAN is only a term for what you eat
 

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^ again i really wasn't referring to you, the post that bothered me the most was the one that assumed if you are Vegan you are against responsible animal breeding VEGAN is only a term for what you eat
I get that...

But actually vegan goes far beyond diet. In its true definition at least. It means to abstain from the use of all products derived from animals.

So it is not hard for a person to assume certain things about vegans.
 
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