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Discussion Starter #1
Face to face greetings are a bad idea for dogs. Dogs find them threatening and can misconstrue such greetings as a challenge. If you have a dog on leash and loose dog comes at you, your dog is always on the back foot and is only in a position to be defensive. This is the first step to taking a neutral dog to the world of reactivity.

Do NOT greet other dogs on leash and advocate for your dog if someone's "friendly" dog runs up to you off leash (usually with the owner yelling "He's Friendly" because REALLY if they said "Fido Come Here" the dogs wouldn't come anyway). Get between your dog and the off leash dog. If someone wants their dog to meet yours on leash, get between your dog and their dog and say No (if they are even polite enough to ask!).

Here is an article I got the other day. It is a good little piece. Friendly dog issue.jpg
 

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"The issue with Clueless owners"

There, I fixed it for you.

Both of my dogs are SUPER friendly - for one of them it's a basic and fundamental feature of their breed - I still have the dog sense not to 1) break leash laws and 2) allow improper greetings or greetings without the explicit consent of the other dog owner. This is an owner education problem more than a "friendly dog" issue.
 

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"The issue with Clueless owners"

There, I fixed it for you.

Both of my dogs are SUPER friendly - for one of them it's a basic and fundamental feature of their breed - I still have the dog sense not to 1) break leash laws and 2) allow improper greetings or greetings without the explicit consent of the other dog owner. This is an owner education problem more than a "friendly dog" issue.
On the theme of owner education...

Should I leash my do infographic by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr
 

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I agree, it's mostly an owner education problem. Friendly dogs are awesome! There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a social butterfly dog. It's the owners who let them run amuck that are not so awesome....
 

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Yeah, with everyone else.

I will admit that people who have friendly dogs *seem* to have a harder time understanding what the 'harm' is in allowing their dogs to run amok, but that is STILL not a problem with the dogs themselves, it's a problem with the owners.

My sports dogs are: A-) Reactive/fear aggressive B-) Completely and utterly neutral unless the dog literally stands on her C-) Super friendly (for now). The standard for behavior - don't mess with other people/dogs, mind your business - is the same for all of them. Because frankly the two outliers (reactive and friendly) are about equally motivated/inclined by nature to be a problem for other people. Being a problem for other people isn't a function of being friendly. So. I don't let 'em. Done.
 

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On the theme of owner education...

Should I leash my do infographic by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr
I'm going to straight up admit that flow chart is not even kind of a thing I follow.

Much like Denise (Fenzi) I find 'parks near roads' EXCELLENT places to work with my particular dogs. Because no one with an out of control dog is letting theirs off leash there!
 

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I'm going to straight up admit that flow chart is not even kind of a thing I follow.

Much like Denise (Fenzi) I find 'parks near roads' EXCELLENT places to work with my particular dogs. Because no one with an out of control dog is letting theirs off leash there!
I've given up walking my dogs in our neighborhood because of all the loose dogs that live on busy roads. In a city that has a leash law, no less.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I rarely have an issue with loose dogs. I OFTEN have had an issue with leashed dogs with their owners on a flexi (yes.. I did mean that sequence)!

Education is fine. ALL for it. Part of this was that for those who think it is OK to let their leashed dog great other dogs. HUGE problems can happen with that.

I though the article I attached was a good one.
 

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Yes the article was good although it was a bit brief. I like the way she touched on the possibility that some dogs could be recovering from injury and/or surgery. That's something that people seldom seem to give any consideration to.

I have an 8 lb dog with spinal issues. She was actually paralyzed for two months, about a year ago. Even though she has recovered, she is still VERY vulnerable, and susceptible to re-injury. I recently had an altercation at the beach with an off-leash 60 lb dog. The owner was quite sure that their dog was nothing for me or my dog to be concerned about, stating the usual oh he's friendly thing. Right. One "friendly" swat of the paw from that dog is all it would take.

ETA: I assertively body blocked the offending dog, and the owner was really upset by that, lol. So I told him "if you don't like the way I treat your dog, then read the sizable 'dogs must be leashed' sign right under your nose, and abide by it".
 

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I hate on leash greetings and avoid them like the plague. Typically being very clear and firm verbally while body blocking works well for me. This is my preferred method of handling 98% of the time.

The other 2%, depending on the dog I have with me, I am a bad, horrible, person: I drop my dog's leash.

This is irresponsible and dangerous.

It also seems to scare the pee out of the person who wants their dog to greet mine on leash and puts a quick end to interaction.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes the article was good although it was a bit brief. I like the way she touched on the possibility that some dogs could be recovering from injury and/or surgery. That's something that people seldom seem to give any consideration to.

I have an 8 lb dog with spinal issues. She was actually paralyzed for two months, about a year ago. Even though she has recovered, she is still VERY vulnerable, and susceptible to re-injury. I recently had an altercation at the beach with an off-leash 60 lb dog. The owner was quite sure that their dog was nothing for me or my dog to be concerned about, stating the usual oh he's friendly thing. Right. One "friendly" swat of the paw from that dog is all it would take.

ETA: I assertively body blocked the offending dog, and the owner was really upset by that, lol. So I told him "if you don't like the way I treat your dog, then read the sizable 'dogs must be leashed' sign right under your nose, and abide by it".
I have done the same (body blocked) and yelled and so forth. I had a little puppy and this guy with a 70 pound "whatever" was like that. He told me I was "off my nut" for not letting my ($2500) puppy play with his ($250) rescue dog and being "too protective." Yeah. right.

I hate on leash greetings and avoid them like the plague. Typically being very clear and firm verbally while body blocking works well for me. This is my preferred method of handling 98% of the time.

The other 2%, depending on the dog I have with me, I am a bad, horrible, person: I drop my dog's leash.

This is irresponsible and dangerous.

It also seems to scare the pee out of the person who wants their dog to greet mine on leash and puts a quick end to interaction.
Amazing how that can work. I do all you do and I also say, "He/She rather not..." when asked to greet my dog. If they press I say more. These words are not polite in mixed company.
 

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I mean. I do generally agree with you.

But I have no idea what in the world the relative prices of the dogs have to do with anything. Nor where they come from.
 

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I don't care if someone paid $5 or $5000 for their dog, anyone who tries to bully you into allowing something you or your dog is uncomfortable with is a jerk, and anyone deserves to have the boundaries they set for them/their dog(s) respected. The amount of money someone got their dog for doesn't really indicate how "dog smart" they are, after all.

The other issue I've had with the "s/he's friendly!" crowd are a good chunk of the dogs with these kinds of owners, leashed or unleashed... are standing there stiff, with tight lips, tail slowly wagging, weight shifted forward, and/or generally being a bully or an butthead. It's really an issue rooted in public dog culture, I think, and lack of understanding about dog behavior or body language (and no real incentive or societal pressure to learn).
 

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I have done the same (body blocked) and yelled and so forth. I had a little puppy and this guy with a 70 pound "whatever" was like that. He told me I was "off my nut" for not letting my ($2500) puppy play with his ($250) rescue dog and being "too protective." Yeah. right.
I'm sorry, in what universe does the price of a dog have ANYTHING to do with their behaviour or their value or worthiness to play with your dog???
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I apologize for that reference. I should not have made it.

I recall this incident and I had a little puppy.. with a lot of dreams tied up in that puppy (still do! he is a super dog!!). It scared me to think what I paid. Still does.

He still had his puppy coat.. and I met this guy out walking a much larger dog that had clearly tuned his owner out and was dragging the guy around and the guy wanted this large out of control leashed dog to meet my puppy. The dog was a mix of many things.. looked very much like one of those things was coon hound (nothing against Coon Hounds!!) One freaking stomp and my puppy could have been broken. For real and forever (or dead). I could not replace him if dead accidentally from a stomping big dog.

This guy wanted his big "oh he's friendly" (and the part NOT said was and "I can't hold him back anyway..") to play with my puppy. I pay attention and could see all this happening and had created distance and was going to the truck. I just was not quite at the truck yet and I went off on the guy to keep his dog back. The guy went beserk and called me a few things. By then I was AT the truck so I just got in and drove away.. the guy was following me as I was driving away.

Thing is, his dog seemed a genuinely nice sort of dog and with some training might have been just a GREAT dog. Price had nothing to do with it. No one wants their puppy stomped and no one wants a hurt dog regardless.

Again, I apologize for that reference. It was an arrogant comment. I should not have made it.
 

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I've never had an issue with on-leash greetings with my super friendly dog. The leash is loose and he's allowed to move around without much problem. The only issue comes with his then thinking "oh boy play time!" and play bowing and trying to run off. So we don't do it too often as he really really wants to play. But the greeting itself? Quick sniff, say hello, and move on? Never had a problem.

I didn't with my older girl either really, though if the dog jumped on her, we could have a minor issue (mostly warning growls from her).

But I definitely get annoyed at the amount of people who let their dogs rush up to my dogs when they're off leash. I get that sometimes crap happens and a dog gets out. But there are a lot of people out in parks with no control over their dogs. Most of the time it's been fine. The dogs are just stupidly friendly and mine were friendly. But sometimes the dogs in question are NOT that friendly. Or they like to jump on other dogs (which my older girl didn't like).

And when she was struggling with health issues (once when she had stitches in her back and once when she had vestibular disease), I had to really fend those dogs off.

Of course, to add, most of the time my biggest concern are people's CHILDREN more than their dogs as I have far more trouble with kids rushing my dogs. Dahlia, my older girl, eats it up. Ben, my younger dog, is TERRIFIED and so I end up looking like the big bad lady who screams at the kids and their parents to get back and away from my dog.
 

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My problem with on leash greetings is pretty complex
1-) Leashes, even loose, alter dog body language and behavior. They tend to result in a nose to nose greeting which isn't ideal, or you risk tangling around one of the dogs or people. If the dogs them move quickly or things go south - and again we don't know how friendly the other dog is - you're in for a world of physical hurt.

2-) I don't need my dog thinking every dog he sees is one they're going to get to greet, even quickly. They're competition dogs. Being able to consider them irrelevant on and off leash is a VERY important thing. For the less interested dogs that's not much of a risk. For the super social one? BIG potential problem. I don't need him getting frustrated the times he can't, or overly excited about the potential even if he can.
 

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Well, honestly, to each their own? For some reason, it helps my younger dog. When he doesn't get to play or meet other dogs he starts to get really frustrated over it. Meet a few dogs quickly and keep going and he actually is much better when I say no to meeting a dog. Maybe it's weird but Ben is nothing if not a weird little dog.

But he's also mostly a pet dog, who does some agility for fun. And I'd rather he know how to politely greet on leash when we ended up in tight spaces (e.g. on a trail) so he can greet and keep moving a moment later without getting all hung up on it. It works well for us.
 

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Yeah, that tendency to get frustrated at 'not now' is why not being able to greet them all is important to me. Definitely a to each their own, but it's a predictable outcome of a very social dog that finds greeting being taught to expect it. It happens a lot and I see a ton of it. No, thank you.

That said my dog CAN greet politely and move on. He just can't expect to be allowed to most of the time. He could expect to waaay less between 4 and 12 months when they were much more rewarding for him.

(My dogs are also mostly pets, though I'm pretty serious about sports. It's not an either/or)
 

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I don't think you actually read what I wrote there, but ok. Why do we even have to argue about this? I stated my experiences and what works for my dogs and someone always has to come around to tell me I'm wrong because THEIR DOGS.

Also, I said that if my dog NEVER gets to greet, he starts to get overly frustrated it. If he's allowed to greet a dog once in awhile? His frustration level drops. Even if there are dogs he doesn't get to meet. It's almost like greeting one takes the edge off. And he definitely doesn't get to greet EVERY dog, but I like to allow him to greet friendly dogs on occasion to keep up that social aspect. Dogs who are reactive (out of frustration or fear), dogs who are clearly giving signals that indicate a greeting might not be best, etc. he doesn't get to meet. And he's learn to ignore them when I tell him to. But if he has to ignore every single dog every single day, he starts to get frustrated at it. Which means if we then met a dog on a trail where we can't get far enough away from, he's going to lose his stupid head over it.
 
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