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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Well we know that all Germans are smart and all Polish people are not the brightest bulbs in the box. Since I'm half German we know that can't be true.

Geeeze in all breeds you will have the smart/not so smart and down the line. Just as in people. I'm just sayin'.....
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Geeeze in all breeds you will have the smart/not so smart and down the line. Just as in people. I'm just sayin'.....
What he said. Not to mention it's a pretty narrow definition of intelligence.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Well we know that all Germans are smart and all Polish people are not the brightest bulbs in the box. Since I'm half German we know that can't be true.

Geeeze in all breeds you will have the smart/not so smart and down the line. Just as in people. I'm just sayin'.....

In a way, that's my point... this guy wrote a book in which he listed them in order. It's so subjective, tho my BC and my Australian Shepperd were the 2 smartest dogs I ever owned.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Eh. Sounds okay I guess. My grandmother's Sheltie, which was rated #6, was the most intelligent and obedient dog I have ever known. I've heard some dogs are smart and others not-so-smart, but I think it also should say that some dogs are just plain stubborn to train or are bored with the same commands over and over again.

Plus, the author only did AKC breeds. My Coton de Tulear is bright! I wouldn't say as bright as a BC, but Luke gets things and will surprise me with his intelligence time and time again. He's related to the Bichon, so I was surprised they were low on the list.

Oh yeah, the Sammie was low on the list too and we have one in our complex and the owner told me he's learning fast. So I think it differs with the breed of dog. But yes, some are known to be super intelligent and others, well...we still love them.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Interesting. My problem still is, even though the system is a bit different than the usual, that people think bidability = intelligence.

Doing a trick or some obedience 50% of the time doesn't make a dog stupid (however, in my greyhound's case, it just might! :D), I know plenty of smart dogs that aren't eager to please. I think quite a few terriers might make that list, lol.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

I had to check out the list before I chose to argue. It has Rotties in the top 10 most intelligent dogs list. I can't argue with that. ha ha I think they are very smart (with the exception of Oliver) but sometimes they use that intelligence to disobey their owners. ha ha Intelligent isn't all it is cracked up to be.

All kidding aside I think that there are all kinds of ways to judge that. Different tests would show different results.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't a lot of the breeds on the lower end of the scale bred to work more independently at their "craft"?

I love how my lab responds to commands and how biddable she is. But, there are just some things my setter is better at (# 37 on the list) and some commands she will perform in a split second. I would put them both on an even scale, if trained to do what they were bred to do, (as I would with my Dachs mix).
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

In a way, that's my point... this guy wrote a book in which he listed them in order. It's so subjective, tho my BC and my Australian Shepperd were the 2 smartest dogs I ever owned.
I jut liked that he put MY breed (ACD ) in the brightest dogs list :), so of course ..... I don't have a prob with this list LMBO ;).
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

I think lists like these perpetuate the idea that dogs are robots with certain traits they never ever differ from, which doesn't help people when a dog bites, or a naive puppy owner ends up disappointed in their 'not so smart' dog that ends up in a shelter etc.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Just another way of stereotyping dogs. Each dog is an individual. The dumbest and least biddable dog that I have ever owned is a female German Shepherd, and yes I have alot of experience with the breed which is why it is my favorite. The smartest dog that I ever owned by far was a GSD/Lad mix.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

I agree every dog is an individual (in my earlier post I was just joking lol) a lot of ppl would have called Izze a dim bulb when in fact she was too smart for most things lol, IME it's the "slow or dumb" dogs like my Josedina (bless her heart, but she is dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to independent thinking , which is supposed to be the ACDs staple..........their ability to carry out daily routine tasks without "supervision".

Josefina is a shining example of breaking the written standard of her breed.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Didn't we do this already? About a month ago.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Pem Corgis are 4th... my Pem is very smart, but unfortunatley he is also one of the most stubborn dogs I know. An obedience trainer even commented that he is insanely difficult and became very frustrated with him.

It's silly to stereotype dogs.. I've seen 'dumb' and 'smart' dogs within the same breed... and everyone's definition of 'dumb' is different anyway. According to the list my corgi would rate poorly soley because he's a stubborn butt.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

BTW, I used to think my coonhound mix was D U M B...... Now I know that she isn't at all. She's just not a biddable dog. When you watch her long enough and see her in action you realize that she's pretty smart in her own way.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't a lot of the breeds on the lower end of the scale bred to work more independently at their "craft"?
Basically this. Breeds that rank lower are not "less intelligent" than those that rank higher necessarily. For example (and because I know the most about the breed) Siberian Huskies are ranked 45th. Coren's focus in his book(s) was on the "working and obedience" which is defined there as a "dogs ability to learn from humans". He sent requests to AKC and CanKC obedience judges asking them to rank breeds by performance. Siberians aren't exactly well known as great obedience trialing dogs so you don't see as many as them as you would some of the other breeds - so they're ranking is lower. They weren't bred to work side-by-side among humans and because they lack the biddability of other breeds and they're pushy and test people - they "lack intelligence" or are "less intelligent than X".

Of course - everyone will always have their own interpretation of the list and what not like has already been stated. But I think 3doglady made a valid point.
Sorry if none of this makes sense it's late lol. I tried to make it as coherent as possible.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

It appears a repeat is in order,

50 years and 90 breeds trained, It's not the breed it's the dog.
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

I just finished The Art of Racing in the Rain by Garth Stein a couple weeks ago and this seems like the perfect venue to post this quote:

"Everyone knows that shepherds and poodles aren't especially smart. They're responders and reactors, not independent thinkers. Especially the blue-eyed sheep dogs from Down Under that people make such a fuss over when they catch a Frisbee. Sure, they're clever and quick, but they don't think outside the box; they're all about convention"
-Enzo (the dog!)

Not that I necessarily agree, because I've yet to find a dog that is smarter than a BC, but it's still something to think about. :)
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

I just finished The Art of Racing in the Rain by Garth Stein a couple weeks ago and this seems like the perfect venue to post this quote:

"Everyone knows that shepherds and poodles aren't especially smart. They're responders and reactors, not independent thinkers. Especially the blue-eyed sheep dogs from Down Under that people make such a fuss over when they catch a Frisbee. Sure, they're clever and quick, but they don't think outside the box; they're all about convention"
-Enzo (the dog!)

Not that I necessarily agree, because I've yet to find a dog that is smarter than a BC, but it's still something to think about. :)
I loved that book ♥
 

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Re: The "Intelligence of Dogs" Book.... open for debate, IMO... LOTS of debate. :)

It appears a repeat is in order,

50 years and 90 breeds trained, It's not the breed it's the dog.
/Thread.

Chihuahuas aren't supposed to be intelligent but my Chi is very intelligent, I'm actually finding it difficult to train her. Husky in a 2.5kg package! :laugh:
 
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