The Fearful Dog Thread

As several people have already read Donatello's emotional restraints, I'll just get to the good news!

Two days ago, we went to the dog park and met a woman with her beautiful dog, whom we haven't seen in months! Nervous and wondering if Donatello would behave himself like he did before, I let him off the leash and said, "Run, Donatello!" (Gracie was barreling down on him and I feared a crash would ensue!) lol! So he did, he was nervous at first, snapped a little bit, but I stopped them both, and cuddled with Gracie, and showed Donatello that I approved.

Well today, we met two new dogs and their owner! They were completely new, and Donatello had somewhat of a blast! They were bigger and not near as active, but he romped with them as well! I let Donatello touch noses with them through the fence first, and luckily his hackles didn't raise and he started whining and wagging his tail as if he wanted to go play so bad! lol! It was adorable, so I said, "Lets give it a go." So I let him into the pen and Donatello wanted to touch noses first, but the other two wouldn't have none of that- They wanted to run and romp!

I'm so proud of Donatello! He's still scared of people, all people, but he's not DA like I was formerly beginning to believe... So all my tedious and slow-going work has paid off! : D I'm not nearly as nervous letting Donnie meet new pals now... : ) Every time someone tries to pet him, he doesn't growl like he once did, but he shies away next to my side as if to say, "Save me!"

He's still skittish with me at times, but he's a quick learner, which helps him so much. It doesn't take him long to realize that what I want him to do isn't going to hurt him, and he then learns that it's even pleasing to both him and myself!

Way to go Donnie! : D

Donatello is slowly continuing to climb out of his shell... (However, he's so smart, and bright, that I know he still clearly remembers everything that was done to him.) Meaning that if I did one thing to scare him he'd be back in his shell.

Every night, he knows when it's bed time... I don't know how, and I don't know how. lol! I take him out one last time, put him back on the sofa gather my things for bed then walk over and grab his old leash... He's off the sofa down the hallway and waiting... (I take his old leash to bed with me, because in the mornings he used to make a mad-dash from my room down the hallway and leap onto his spot on the sofa. Well at 7:30 in the morning, and even though he's a tiny dog, that's still a lot of commotion.) So every morning I put the leash on him and walk him next to me... I've been doing that for over a month now... I should start weening him off...

ANYWAY... He's gotten so smart that now all I have to do is walk in the direction of the bin that I keep his leashes in and he's off the sofa and down the hallway... BUT ONLY when it's bed time. I could go to that bin every hour on the hour all day long and pull out any leash and he's ready to go outside... But by-golly if he doesn't know when it's bedtime!

Oh, and when I take too long to follow him back, he'll come out of my room and look down the hallway- If he sees me he'll wag his tail and look at me as if to say "Well c'mon slow poke!"

It used to be an every night hassle to get him to come to bed with me in my room. He got so used to sleeping out in the living room on the sofa with me, that I would have to fight tooth and nail for him to come with me... I'd have to put his old leash on him to follow me to my room, coaxing him with words would freak him out and he'd pee if I'd reach down to pick him up...

My family marvels every night when he does this... : ) I love it!

I had recently bought Donatello some "anti-stress" tablets. I've thankfully only been able to use them three times...

On days Donatello seems like he's lost his mind and can't find it, or on days the maintenance men can't fix the problem in one trip...

I've had to, literately, do some modifications to my bedroom to demote the prospect of fear for Donatello... Early last month, "something" must have "spooked" him when I was taking a shower... (I put him in my room and close the door when I shower. Any long periods of time that I'm away from him, that is where he goes so he nor other members of my family get any "fishy ideas.) Anyway, I get out of the shower, open the door to my room and... ??? Where's Donatello? I was about to jump the gun and get upset with my family, I assumed they either went in my room, or intentionally opened the door and let him...

They didn't!

I went back to my room, searched and searched, then ironically I lifted the bed-skirt around my bed and there he was! Cowering and trembling like someone chased him with a 2X4... I had a helluva time coaxing him out... He wouldn't come out, so I had to grab him under his legs and drag him out, he's flailing, kicking, screaming, and of course... PEEING!

(That was one of the first times that I got exasperated and purchased the "anti-stress" tablets...)

The whole night and into the next day he acted so weird and just not himself...

Sure enough a few nights later he did it again... And this continued all of last month. (It's a safety hazard for him to be under my bed... The bed is held on to the frame with weak boards that shift ever so slightly, and I have one of those Temperpudic beds... OMG. Weighs a ton! And I'm more concerned with sitting on the bed just right and crushing him!)

Well, as this continued, his behavior about hiding under the bed became borderline ridiculous! He'd run to my room when it was "bedtime", I'd close the door to grab not but a 2 minute shower, come out and he's already under the bed, and at this time he was so upset with me for having to pull him a few times that he refused to come to me at all, and would hunker down and just scream at me for even lifting the bed-skirt...

Last month, I would not have thought Donatello was the same dog I've made break-throughs will.

On the nights he'd make a big stink about things, I'd give him a tablet and half. (It's natural, made with Chamomile and just a few other natural herbs.) I'm not sure if was my wishful thinking, or the luck of the draw that he was just "calm", but whenever I gave those to him... He'd just lay there, not doped up and "Captain SpaceCadet", but he'd look at me, and have this... Gentle, I guess the word would be, persona about him... He just radiated "peacefulness"...

Ironically he's not scared of thunderstorms, or fireworks- He's sleeping right now as I type this... So there was no need for me to give him any...

Luckily though, I've fixed my bed. Ha HA! My family helped me squeeze an extra box-spring under my bed; Not only has it stopped squeaking! (BIG plus for my sleeping habits), but now there's not but five inches on every side under the bed-skirt... Not nearly enough space to hide under... I've had to rearrange some boxes so he wouldn't get stuck between them and a wall... **Sigh**, this dog tried it all...

Anyway, the last three days, he's been doing good... Great even... He's always on my bed when I walk through the door, and he's happy too... He's not cowering on the bed trembling either; now mind you my family heard him jump down and sniff under the door a lot while I was with a client; He does eat and drink while I'm gone, so he's not incapacitated... But I really believed that if I hadn't saved him from himself by putting that box-spring in the way... He would have relapsed for sure...

I know you've probably talked this through MissMutt, but I'd like to add that your situation is a lot like mine from my own family.

Recently, I started looking at dog-crates on craigslist... I'm contemplating getting one in the near future... I'm always endorsing crate training, and I'm always pushing other people to get one for their dogs, and then I'm looking at my dog going, "You know what, I could do it... I could make him like crates..." I've never gotten a dog crate because I've been petrified of how it would make him feel... He came from an animal-shelter, (like most of you know), and I just feel like crap thinking he'd be miserable being forced into one...

Anyway- My step-mother's Pug puppy loves the crate they have; It's a big crate, probably for like a Golden Retriever; They got it for Spot when he was a puppy back five years ago- Spot learned to love it and would go in there willingly 24/7 or whenever you told him too- The Pug puppy is turning out to do the same thing... Not only do I think that's cute and sweet, but I'm still real big on the fact that dogs should be desensitized to crates before they're kenneled or boarded- I believe it makes the process for them go so much more smoother...

Sooooo... I mention in passing that I'm -looking- at some dog-crates and can find some for Donatello pretty cheap... My mother looks at me with the a curious and disgusted look on her face- "Why in the Hell do you want a dog-crate for him..." I didn't even respond, I just kept browsing...

Whenever I decide to do something new or different with Donatello, she has to question me. It's like, wth? He's my dog... Whenever I go somewhere and my family stays home, Donatello gets put in my bedroom. (His food, water, and toys are in there anyway.) He is not anyone else's responsibility, he's mine... But she will either question me, or give me this look like, "Why are you doing that?" (She's questioned me like that as well.) I do it for more reasons then just one, too... Donatello doesn't care for my youngest sister, he doesn't trust her as far as he can throw her. But, he is not to blame for that, she is; Her reaction to him walking or running by has conditioned him to not like being close to her... I've gotten on her time and time again and it's done no good. By now, he is immune to her jumping out of his way, but the damage is already done... The other day she got in my face when I was sitting on the sofa and she started growling at me, Donatello didn't like it at all... He stood up beside me and growled at her back. I told her, "See, you shouldn't treat me like crap because Donatello doesn't like it." Which is partially the truth.

So I keep him in my bedroom to just keep the possibility of anything bad happening slim to none. Because, if I came home and found he was out, or found that he nipped someone, I wouldn't in the least feel bad... "Well he was in my room to be left alone, you all were the idiots that went in there when I wasn't home!" (I probably wouldn't call anyone an idiot, but I'd say the rest in a heartbeat.)

There have also been times when I've told my mother that I'm going to muzzle Donatello, she's just about all but jumped down my throat for it. "What are you going to do that for?" and I'm forced to reply, "Well mother, he did snap at a girl before, and he's scared of what people might do to him... Until he gets over that I'm going to have to muzzle him." She took it, but looked as if she wished she could say more.

See, she's never had a "fearful" dog before, she says she had one as a child, but how in the world does that count? She didn't train the dog, she lived with the dog and played with him, but the dog wasn't trained by her or anyone, it was just left alone and left to live like any other normal dog... Well, like Marge, Donatello isn't normal... He needs rules, he needs discipline, he needs me to guide him like his own mother would... So if that means muzzling him then so be it! He may not like having rules, but deep down in his subconscious, he feels better having them.

My mother also tried fighting me on the fact Donatello goes berserk around "Pit-Bulls". She told me, "He does not." I said, "Excuse me? You don't walk Donatello. You don't accompany us on walks. You don't go the parks, or the dog parks with us, how do you know he doesn't?" She just stuttered a little bit and then just walked off.

I know her, and my sisters both, think I'm too hard on Donatello. I make him exert self-control, and that's amounts to a lot of my commands over him... I make him wait for almost everything. I make him lay down where he's at until I call him over... I make him wait before jumping on the sofa, and I make him wait before running back to my room at night... They roll their eyes at me, or if I say something about what I'm doing or I plan to do, my mother scoffs at me.

I have though, been told by strangers that I'm "too hard" on Donatello... I was talking with a group of people at the dog-park and we were discussing how our dogs behave at home. One woman described her dog as a "maniac", a "thief", a "hoodlum" and a dog with "ADD"... I was mad, sad, and shocked all at the same time; Knowing what I know, there's no excuse to just let a dog run rampant. But everyone else laughed at her description, chuckled and said, "He's just too adorable for anything else." Excuse me? So if Hitler was adorable like a 6 week old puppy, the Holocaust would have been looked at as "cute"??

So I chimed in and started describing what I do with Donatello. How he gets one meal a day, (the jaws dropped there and continued to fall farther south the more I continued.) I make him go through his list of tricks/commands at least once a day, I make him wait to jump on the sofa, I make him wait to come to me at the door so we can go out, I make him lay down on the sofa if he's not going to do anything "productive", (He tends to just pace around, not restless, but ever since I taught "touch", he touches everything now, at least once, and when I'm busy watching a movie with my sister it's distracting because then he'll come to me and "touch" my leg, or my foot, then stand at me and stare at me for no apparent reason.) I continued on and these people started staring at me with looks of anger on their faces. "Geez, can't you just let the dog be a dog? Why the Hell does he need all those rules for? That's just confusing to a dog, he probably doesn't know if he's coming or going! And what's with making him *wait* all the time? That poor dog. What are you, a control freak?" I replied, "Actually. I am. When it comes to things like animals, I am a "control-freak". If you don't control your dog, your dog winds up like that woman's and then you're always fighting with your dog to behave and be good for five minutes. No thanks... I need order and discipline in my life and from my animals as well." I also explained that Donatello is extremely intelligent, and all my rules do not confuse him, but keep him occupied, he doesn't struggle with anything and he rarely if ever forgets. Self-control is good for dog that has the potential to be hyper-active...

I hate having to explain myself to strangers, but I really hate having to do it with my family more... I'm going to explain to my mother soon about the benefits of a dog-crate and see how she reacts... She's never used a dog-crate before, and her dogs frequently messed up the house or chewed on things they weren't supposed to when we left... Donatello doesn't do that now, and that's not the reason I want a crate.

Oh and what you said:

MissMutt said:

I just keep telling myself I need to be her champion.. these people know nothing.. they shouldn't affect me.. I need to stay strong for her, if for no one else.

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That's good, remember that, because I'm going to remember that for Donatello.

Alright guys... My turn to "vent"...

((WHINE ALERT))

This morning I woke up to Donatello scrambling over me, jumping off the bed and trying to squeeze under my nightstand... He was spooked out of his mind. I checked my watch it was 7:48 in the morning... This has never happened before. Ever.

It took me a couple minutes to coax him out from under my nightstand, where he then tried crawling under my bed... Finally he jumped back up on the bed with me, shivering his brains out!

Needless to say it was not the perfect way to start off the day... He hasn't done something like this in about a month... I was very frustrated and I was doing my best not to be short with him... But it pissed me right off...

I'm a very light sleeper, so whatever it was that "scared" him should have directly woken me up... But instead I woke up him to scrambling over my limp body like there was a war-zone going on outside our window...

I finally got up, I leashed him to the door, (like I do when I teach new tricks). He laid down, and watched me go about my routine... Then I left the room and decided to take a quick shower, I needed to wash off the negative energy he created... I go back in the room and he's fine... Perfect. Like nothing happened. He looked at me like, "Hey, there you are. Where've you been?" So I unleashed him and he was just as happy and chipper like any morning... Most definitely...

Anyway... My bigger complaint... Next April, my grandmother is coming to live with us... If her dog is still alive by then, she's bringing her... We'll finally be able to move into a bigger a place... But still... I don't know how I'm going to handle it... Donatello and her dog weren't exactly friends when we went down there for a visit.

I was able to convince my mother that a dog-crate is a good idea for Donatello... But I shouldn't have to convince anyone, he's my dog and regardless he's going to be crated if I want him to be... Anyway... I'm looking for a dog-crate... I'm dreading April...

My grandmother is not going to like how I handle Donatello, and I already get enough dirty looks, and mumbled words tossed at me for the way I handle him... I don't need anymore...

Support?

MissMutt said:

Get a crate and get a lock for your room. Tell them that no one is to bother Donatello unless there is an emergency. You'll have to just say strong and ignore the naysayers.. it's easier said than done but it can be done

Listen, alot could change from now until April. Try not to worry about it too much. Think about it - Donnie could be a whole new dog by then. The other dog could not be in the picture. Your GRANDMOTHER herself could not be in the picture. It's almost a year away. You'll be okay.

I know how you feel about getting short and frustrated.. I'm usually pretty good but sometimes I just get so flabbergasted as to why she'd be afraid of something. I've found that getting angry only makes it worse though. For both human and dog.

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Well, I'm getting a crate, but as for a lock for my room, I'm not sure if that's quite possible... I live with my mother, and she's very... What's the word I'm looking for... Controlling. She's the type of person that reminds you every day of your life that she pays the bills... That she is the one working... Yadda yadda yadda... I can only imagine the argument that erupt should I mention a lock for my room... She's the type of person to say, "When you pay the rent you can put a lock on your door."

However, I am getting a crate, there are no two ways about it... What I plan to do, is put the crate in-front of the patio door, open the blinds so he can at least get some light, then put the cage door facing the patio-door; that way should someone come into my room, they won't be tempted to open the crate... It'll be more of a hassle, and it would probably keep Donatello calm as well...

Yeah, it is almost a year away... Who knows, I might suddenly meet someone who wishes for me to be a stay-at-home house-mom for Donatello. : ) He'll whisk me off to a big beautiful home with four rooms, one for my art, one for my books, one for Donatello, and the other for my miscellaneous pets. lmao. I guess I'd need five...

I'm trying not to worry about it so much... but I'm still dreading it... My grandmother has moved in and out of our lives for 20 years, (I'm 20.) and here she is doing it again, and my mother just lets her... But this time, she'll have no where else to go, her husband passed away last November... I know this sounds mean and terrible, but I wish something would come up for her, or for me, so I don't have to live here anymore... Am I terrible or what??

ColoradoSooner said:

Deege - I'm with you. There are times that I'm like, "MAYZIE! We have been through this before. Yesterday you were FINE with me moving the kitchen chair. Now it's some big scary monster that's going to eat you?" Argh! (Of course, I try to not let her see or feel my frustration but sometimes it's mighty difficult.) But the thing that keeps me going is just what happened to you this morning. Donatello was freaked out but calmed down and bounced back very quickly. I bet you wouldn't be able to say that a few months ago. Watching them slowly learn how to cope better and more quickly with the "big scary monsters" is quite a reward.

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Donatello's been so good these last few months, there's been hardly anything to report; Thus leaving nothing for me to get frustrated over... But waking up to that this morning was the icing on top of the stress-cake... But, before I could do any lasting damage I took a five minute shower, then just as I started thinking about whether I should give him one of his Anti-Stress tablets I found that he was back to his normal too...

I'm certainly aware of how quickly he bounces back... But I'm still aware that something could go wrong and we could have another lethal set-back...

I worry to much. I think.

Come move to NY.. you and I can find a place and split the rent.. I think Marge and Don would like it

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Oh could we please, could we please???

I love New York and consequently love Marge through the internet... It'd work for me, and whatever works for me seems to work for Donatello. lol... I think they could be best buds.

But all kidding aside, I do hope to move out soon... It kills me being at home... I was out on my own; I moved to KY in 2007, and after a year and couple months I got my own place with my high-school sweetheart... Two weeks later his parents kicked me out and with no where left to go I had to come back down here to Georgia... But, I did get this amazing dog for going through all that... I'd do it all again if I knew I'd have Donatello...

I give myself Hell for the way I act sometimes... I get very jealous over him, as if I'm 2 and not 20... I get jealous if I think Donatello will like someone more than me... I get jealous if it looks like Donatello gets happy seeing someone more than me... I don't know why, I can't explain it... I just love this dog so much and have done so much to help him, that I get defensive if I think he doesn't love me back... I don't know... I can't explain it...

Setbacks aren't lethal though! Remember the quote I posted? Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts! Just think of Marge..still a $#@[email protected]# wreck from the fireworks, but we're still kickin'.. it will be all right!

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I do think of Marge a lot, and I actually have told my mother about Marge, mentioning to her that I think it's so strange Marge and Donatello seem to have the same "issue" [fear]... I do think of Marge a lot, but I seem to forget what you all have gone through when I'm going through something tough, I need to remember more often that you have went through Hell and back with Marge and you all are still tough as nails and still going.

ColoradoSooner said:

Deege - On a completely unrelated matter, that pic of Donatello in your signature line cracks me up everytime I look at it.

Also, I think you're doing a great thing by getting Donatello crate trained before your grandmother arrives. Here's something to consider. I've heard people say that you should just get it big enough for the dog to stand up and turn around in. Well, when we first got Ranger (our 20lb.) rat terrier, he hated his crate. And until we got Mayzie, he would only go in it at night with the help of a kong. Well, when we got Mayzie, her crate was much bigger...since she's much bigger. And he loves that thing. So we ended up getting him one that's the same size as hers and he's happy as a clam in there. (I personally think it's because he sees himself as a rottweiler and couldn't understand why we were squishing him into this itty bitty crate...LOL.) Obviously, you know Donatello so be sure to ask yourself which type of crate he would like better...small, medium or large.

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I love that picture too, he looks like an evil Gremlin, lol... I didn't fix that green-eye 'cause I think it adds more mood and character to the picture... Makes him look menacing, but for those that know Donatello know that's completely untrue. lol.

I'm contemplating getting a crate that's for the size of a Golden Retriever. My step-mother has one for her dogs, one that Spot used, and he's the same size as Donatello, but their biggest dog Freckles could fit in it if she had too... I think he'd benefit from having it pretty big, packed with his favorite blankets and chew bones...

I have from now until April to find a crate and train him to it... I actually don't think he'll have as big a problem with it as I used to think. He keeps trying to squeeze himself under my bed, which there is hardly a foot of crawl space under... He seemed to think he could find comfort from under there, so he should love the crate in due-time... If all goes well...

Guys... I've got to vent again...

Donatello has been freaking out for the last couple hours... I don't know over what... There have been some maintenance men working upstairs, and I think he's just not used to the floor creaking above him... Well, I finally had to give him a tablet and a half. The first in a couple months.

He's been trying to hide under the coffee table, every time I get up or move he tries to jump down... I don't permit him to follow me about, he's to stay on the sofa until I say "come here", or beckon for him to play or something; It's all in his training...

Anyway... His ears have been pricked in an odd way for the last few hours... There are people weed-eating and mowing outside, but that doesn't ever bother him; It did the first them they did that, but they do it about twice a week and by now he doesn't even bat an eye...

But. We'll be sitting here on the sofa and he'll just look at something in the corner, then he starts up a frenzy of sniffing at -nothing- and then try to bolt...

I don't even know what the trigger is... So... He's leashed to me. The leash is clipped to him and loop-knotted around my wrist. I don't know what else to do, when he's on a leash he seems to calm down. (I don't know why. I think it's cause he's in a constant state of, "WE'RE GOING OUTSIDE?")

I don't know guys, I should have known this day would end in disaster, I mean, look how it started! He ate good today, he did his tricks fine for me, we played on and off today too... So I'm not even sure what this "freaking out" thing is about, usually he shuts down and refuses to do anything but pee on me.

I'm sorry to stray the topic back a little bit, but I didn't get these messages until this morning...

KBLover said:

I wouldn't be so quick to say he's sniffing at nothing. We might never know, but it could have been a scent of something that smelled like something once before that he didn't like, or he's trying to find out what that sound is he's hearing. Trying to sniff to identify, and if he can't he gets scared. Or maybe he hears something that's sounding like it's coming from inside the wall.

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He doesn't get off the sofa and go sniff an area, he points his nose in any direction, usually the corner on the opposite side of the room and start sniffing like mad... As if there's someone standing there and he's trying to pick up their scent. He's done this since I brought him home in December, but it's been getting worse lately... I wouldn't say "worse" like it's a problem, but it's confusing to me because sometimes he'll sniff at this -nothing- across the room and then try to crawl on my lap for comfort.

I would agree that the sounds are getting to him a bit. If the floor creaking over his head is an infrequent sound, make a lot of sense that's what's driving him crazy. Wally was the same way if we're in the basement and the floor over the room we're in bangs or thumps, he used to start getting very anxious.

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Well the maintenance men were stomping around all day yesterday. All day. We don't have anyone that lives up there, so for several months it was quite. Every now and again a few squeaks, well yesterday one of the bigger, more heavyset guys were walking around and wherever this guy stepped it did sound as if his feet would fall through. I'm sure he'd be fine and would get used to it if someone lived up there and walked softly at first, but that's something I can't control...

He unleashed his "shutdown" behavior yesterday... I don't know how many times I had to holler his name and tell him to jump back up on the sofa. I don't permit Donatello to *hide* under anything, if anything him doing that feeds into his fears because he does it to feel safe but still hears the noise that scares him so he becomes even more frightened... That's just my opinion, based on what I see when he does that... So I had to keep calling his name and pulling on him to get him back on the sofa. Then I kept trying to grab his attention with something but it was just no use... That's when I gave him a tablet, which did help, he was still freaked out, but he wasn't "shutdown" anymore, and didn't try to bolt every time there was a noise from upstairs.

About the leash - I think it can have a calming effect on fearful dogs because it's like "I'm not alone" as well as a reminder of walks/going out/having fun. I know exactly what you mean - I've often wondered about it as well. I can never find any information on why that might be or even about it happening for someone else (until now).

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There are some dogs, that are "too far gone" for this trick to work... Like my step-mother's dog Freckles, she is lethal when there's a thunderstorm; She's severely hurt herself many times because she couldn't find "safety" from a thunderstorm, she's hurt me before as well. The "leash'em trick" did NOT work. At all. It made it worse, she tries flight during a thunderstorm to find safety, but when she's leashed she feels she can't get away, (which is true) and it makes her thrash and carry on... The poor dog is too old to be injuring herself because of thunder. But they allowed her behavior to continue instead of trying to train her, they just let her have a fit or medicate her when she gets too bad.

MissMutt said:

Deege, sniffing can be a calming signal. He is most likely trying to divert his attention from the scary thing and calm himself down. (In other cases, a sniffing dog can be trying to calm ANOTHER person/dog down, but it works for the dog self-calming as well).

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Well, I do understand that. When I taught him "touch" he's improved 10fold; When he touches an object I can see him sniffing it, and then he concludes that, that object could never hurt him. So instead of slinking around the object the next time he'd walk right by it... But this sniffing, the sniffing he was doing yesterday, I don't know what he's sniffing at- Because like I said he was on the sofa and kept looking at different places in the room and would point his nose at "something/nothing" and just sniff and sniff and sniff... If he continued doing that, and I guess couldn't figure that "something/nothing" out, he'd crawl to me for "comfort" I guess. If I knew what it was he was sniffing at I'd go show him there's nothing to worry about... He could "touch" it and find out for himself...

Don't worry about having to give him the tablets - they ARE for you to use on him, right? If they help him, use them.

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The tablets are for him to use, and I got them with worry that I'd be using them every day, and I only used them three times now, but I really wish that I could just explain to Donatello, or show him, that there was nothing to be worried about. The tablets don't hurt him, they just calm him down but I still wish I didn't have to use them...

He was better later on that night, he even played with me a few minutes before I went to sleep, and he didn't wake up this morning like he did yesterday so I think we'll have a good day.

My mother, of course, asked me with an accusing tone in her voice, "Why do you have him on a leash?" As if there's a problem with doing that. It wasn't hurting Donatello, he was calm, sitting beside me while I waited for noodles to boil. I told her that the maintenance men moved another refrigerator from upstairs today and I told her that they've been stomping around up there and it's wigging him out... She scoffed and said, "Well what's he going to do when someone moves up there? I guess he'll just have to get used to it." Well, you know and I know she's right, but the way she said it, pissed me off greatly- But I kept my cool and said, "Well, he could get used to someone walking over his head if that someone didn't weigh 300+ pounds. He'd get used to it if the sound was there every day and not every couple weeks." She just huffed and walked off...

I don't know what her problem is, one moment it feels as if she's defending him against me, and then in the same breath she's mocking him for being scared... I don't get it...

MissMutt said:

You sure he wasn't shut down? A dog who isn't running away may have very well habituated himself to the noise, but it could also mean that he sees no way to get away (like hiding) and simply stays in place because he has no other option.

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No, it wasn't like that at all... He calmed down enough, and when I sat with him on the sofa I took his chew and wiggled it in front of his nose and he actually grabbed it and started chewing on it... When he's "shutdown", he'll ignore my advances, and he'll hide from whatever I'm trying to give him.

In regards to the sniffing, I'm thinking maybe he was trying to pair the noises he was hearing with a scent. When that failed, he became more frantic trying to find a scent.

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Well, he does this sniffing thing at the air even when there aren't noises from upstairs; The noises upstairs only go on about one day out of a couple weeks, and he doesn't this sniffing thing just about once a day... Most times, however, it doesn't spook him. But yesterday it spooked him, probably from the added noises upstairs.

Marge has been taking a melatonin pill for almost every day since last week now. In the future, especially next summer, I would not be surprised if I can convince my vet to give me alprazolam. (In fact, I just might beg him for it, because I don't want to go through what I'm going through now yet again.) I didn't want to give her anything at first, especially not a full-fledged medicine, but the idea is that I'm giving her something to help lessen her response so that I can condition her against the scary trigger.

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These tablets are in no way, medicine, and I'd feel heartbroken if it was... Just like I feel heartbroken for Freckles that needs to be doped up at every rumble of thunder... But if it helps, it helps, it's still sad you have to take it to that level.

All I can say to this is that I'm sorry. You and I are about the same age, so I know what this is like.

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It seems like I've come to an impasse of sorts... Everything I do for Donatello helps him, but I'm the only one that believes that... Others think that what I'm doing is too "harsh" and not necessary... I try to defend myself and Donatello, but to no avail...

KBLover said:

Still sounds like he's trying to identify, imo. Kinda like how when Wally walks out the door (especially the front door), the first thing he does is sniff, sniff, sniff. He's not really sniffing anything (like the flowers or the porch), but he points his nose around and sniffs the air. I figure he's sniffing for potential trouble or what's going on. Is this the same place? Are these the same scents as before? Are those the same kids? Is that a new person? Which dogs are here? Are these the same dogs? Etc...

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It's possible that's what Donatello is doing...

I know our dogs are different, but almost invariably when he starts scenting like this when we're out and about, he's picked up SOMETHING "nearby" (to him). The last few nights, he's come to a dead stop and started sniffing around and moving slowly like he's trying to hunt something.

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That almost sounds cute.

He's always done this? That really makes me think he's trying to identify something. Maybe the scent has changed. Is there anything on the other side of the wall/corner he points at and sniffs?

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Yes, he's always done this, but lately he's been doing it more and more. And there is nothing there... One the other side of the wall is just the outside... It's hard to believe his nose is that good to pick up scents from outside through a wall and from across the room...

Nope, but it was probably just one of the triggers that day. Can't worry about what you can't control, just manage the behavior that results, which is what you did.

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Yeah, I was ticked off yesterday, because it was making my dog a raging lunatic, but I tried to keep my cool and ignore it myself... I just focused on Donatello and doing the work I needed to do...

It makes sense. Sounds like it starts a vicious cycle. He hides because he hates the sound, but he still can hear it, so he becomes more afraid and stays in the hidng spot, but the sound is still there, etc.

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I was in my room one time, and Donatello was out on the sofa, I was opening a package of something, and I came out of my room and Donatello was under the kitchen table at my mothers feet. Not only was I ticked off that he ran to -her- for comfort, but she just let him! She knows how I feel about him hiding from noises. I asked her, "What's he doing?" and she just shrugged, "He heard something, I guess your paper and got freaked out..." so I replied, "So you just let him hide at your feet under the table?" She stared at me blankly, "Well what did you expect I do?" I just huffed and said, "Nothing." (Because I've told her time and time again to *shoo* him or guide him back to the sofa.) So I told him to get back on the sofa and he did, he was fine after that... I made him "gimme a kiss" which he did and wagged his tail happily, not something he would have done if he was scared.

But yeah, they basically trained her to run during storms. I feel you're always training just like you're always teaching a child something - whether you realize it or it's "formal" or not. So if they just allowed her to have a fit and coddled her, etc, they reinforced the reaction to the fear (not the fear itself - but they told her "that's right, that's how you act when there's a storm") - where you or I would probably interrupt that chain and teach a new one like you're doing with Donatello.

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I've tried telling them how to handle Freckles and they've either said, "We tried that, it didn't work..." or "She's too old, it'd take too long to try and change her, we just deal with it.." Yeah, well, they're dealing with it, but what about Freckles? She's obviously not -dealing with it-... It's one of those situations you can't change, you try to help but if others aren't going to reinforce your work then it does no good...

I don't allow Donatello to "hide" or to "run". I make him "face" his fears and I do my best to show him that it's "okay" there's nothing to be afraid of, so that next time something like it happens, he doesn't freak out and try to run away...

Maybe have him touch the wall/corner itself? Will he go over there if you guide him there?

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I could try that...

She probably thinks you're why he's scared (i.e. how you handle him)? Like "the poor dog is all leashed up and you're why he's such a pitiful coward in the first place."

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That's quite possible as well... It pisses me off too... She doesn't realize that Donatello's made so many improvements being with me, so instead she probably just thinks I'm being too mean to him with all these rules...

Guys. I'VE GOT GREAT NEWS!!

I GOT A DOG CRATE! : D I'm so excited! (Over a dogcrate, that is kind of sad.) ; ) lol.

Anyway... I called my father yesterday and he told me to call my uncle because he has a dogcrate that he doesn't want/need anymore, and to get the dimensions and see if it'd work for Donatello.

Donatello is roughly- 18in. tall from front paws to head. Over 19in. from nose to butt.

So I called my uncle and his dog crate is 18/17in. wide and tall, and 2ft. deep/long... There is no way that'd work for me. So I decided to go to the petstore and see what I could find... I took my tape measure just in-case. I was going to price them and see what they had, if they didn't have anything in a reasonable price range I was going to go to Wal-mart.

Low-and-behold. The last big one they had... MARKED DOWN FROM $99.99 TO $38.40!! My mother was with me and surprised me by saying, "Let's just get it for you, it's over $60 off! You won't find that big of one, that nice of one, for that price anywhere else... And it's the last one!" So I grabbed it!! : ) Eeeeeeek... I was so excited.

So we rushed home, and I set it up... (I also got one of those "crocks", those dishes that attach to the door?) I slid it into my bedroom and Donatello instantly became curious.

I put in two blankets, one of which is his favorite. I put it beside my bed, and I'm also using the top as a nightstand. : P Which works out better, my last table was too short...

Anyway... He was sitting on the bed, and I said, "Come'ere," So he jumped down and sniffed at it... I pointed in it and said, "Go in your crate," Now he doesn't know "go in your crate," (yet), but I've trained him to know that when I point somewhere, that's where I want him to lay down. So he went inside and laid down! NO PROBLEM!

So then he sits up, and he started "touching" everything. He "touched" the roof, the metal bars for the windows, the plastic walls, the metal door, the plastic bowl for his water, and even the blankets... Then he kept looking at me like, "I could like it in here." I was so excited and shocked! I was expecting the worst...

I even left him in it so I could take a shower. I told anyone that if they hear him make a noise to come get me and let me... No one did... So either no one heard him, or he didn't make a noise, (which he really must not have) because when I went back in my room I looked and he was curled up asleep!

So I took some pictures... There will be a couple more in Pictures along with a video, when I can upload them.

KBLover said:

Nice crate (and great deal on the price - wow!)

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Thanks, it is fabulous and very nice... I know- over $60 off??? Who could have passed that up, and it was the last one, too.

I'm glad Donatello took to it so easily! I think he's going to love it in there. It might even be his sanctuary.

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Earlier this morning he put up a fuss going into it, not really a fuss- He just kept pulling back on his leash like a mule... In his defense, he knew I was going somewhere, so it wasn't the crate itself, it was the fact he had to stay home. Talk about spoiled. I was gone from 10:00 until 12:45 today and he made not one peep until he heard my voice when I came home, then he whined- But in his defense again, he does that all the time when he's confined...

He'll learn the crate command just by doing what you're doing - point him in, and say your command (mine is "bedtime", and "go crate" - "go" is like a prefix to tell him to move somewhere, so we have go potty, go crate, go downstairs, go on your spot, go shade, etc)

Doing that consistently, he'll learn the connection between you pointing him in and making your sounds (words) and assume one means the same as the other.

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That's what I'm shooting for.

I didn't realize Donatello is that tall. I pictured him being about Wally's size or a touch smaller (like 10" tall). Wouldn't have ever guessed he's actually taller than Wally. (I think Wally is 14-15" from floor to head assuming his head is at normal position - I know he's 11" at the shoulder) : )

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That's why I believe he's a Manchester-mix... He's all legs!! Seriously! My pictures of him don't do him justice, and yeah- He's about 18-19in. tall from paws to head... It's a rough estimate because he kept wanting to sniff the tape measure.

ColoradoSooner said:

Awww...look how happy and comfy Mr. Donatello looks in his new crate! Aren't you glad you decided to get it? (And that was a smokin' deal for sure!)

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Oh I'm so happy I got it! Too happy, almost... You know it's bad when buying a dog-crate is all you talk about for weeks. lmao!