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Discussion Starter #1
I hear this all the time about the Amline GSDs, and I certainly don't deny that some of them are, however, I would like to make a point.

The following are all pictures of Justin in various stacks, some more extreme, some more moderate. All show how much I can alter him just by the placement of his rear feet. I also have gaiting pics to show that even though I can make him look so extreme he looks to be standing on his whole hock, he still gaits properly.







 

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:rolleyes:yeah, i can see where he has such a hard time even standing....that poor dog, i think you should just shoot him (earth humour):D

gorgeous boy, and i'm not usually partial to the Amlines....
 

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I think I'll snag a few pics of our local GSD's (especially the long haired "show" GSD from the park) and let you be the judge of whether or not that dog is crippled.

Justin looks nice to me, the dog I have in mind isn't even being stacked but is so under slung in the rear end and walks with both rear legs "twisting" - that's the best way I can describe it.

I'll get video of them playing next time, poor boy can't keep up with Lacey.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That would be good ACampbell :)

I just wanted to make a point that just because a dog looks extreme doesn't always mean he is, or that he's incapable of walking/gaiting properly
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Strauss looks awesome, such a beautiful boy. =)
Thanks :D Too bad his handler sucks xD
 

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Now that is what I am talkin' about! Obviously I need to throw in a few of Atka in various stacks...

I always thought that in a stack the stretched hind leg was to be set up with the cannon perpendicular to the ground so you could drop a plumb line from point of hock to ground along the back of the cannon. The far, (forward) hind foot toes no further ahead than the stifle and the point of hock directly below the point of hip....

I could have that all wrong and feel free to correct me.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You're correct Elana :) Part of Justin's titlted hock is a combination of being overstacked and him leaning into it.

Justin is considered an extreme dog for many...while he's a little more than I'm used to, he is still quite moderate and most definitely functional.

MY problem is the GSD s that have to rotate their legs out to walk because they just don't fit under him
These dogs are usually in the specialty ring and tend towards overangulation + loose ligamentation
 

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Justin is nowhere near as "extreme" (I think he's mild to be honest compared to what I see up here) as the ones I've seen. Seriously, the long hair reminds me of a manx cat the way he walks...ugh I wish I was better at descriptions!

Yes, I promise, this weekend, photos for comparison...I've even been using the clicker to help train Lacey for a stack...seems to be working thus so far!



This is what I consider "extreme".

How can that be structurally sound, it just looks so unnatural.

ETA: Found this picture on a website, but looks a lot like the pup at the dog park that I'm talking about.
 

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Xeph, explain to me again why they make the GSD's stack like that? Would it be safe to say that many people that take the "stacked pictures" of their dogs OVER stack? It seems to me that often times the dog is stretched way too far out. To me if the dog looks unbalanced by stacking them, it is probably over done. Well, that or it is just a really structurally unsound dog.
 

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Justin is nowhere near as "extreme" (I think he's mild to be honest compared to what I see up here) as the ones I've seen. Seriously, the long hair reminds me of a manx cat the way he walks...ugh I wish I was better at descriptions!

Yes, I promise, this weekend, photos for comparison...I've even been using the clicker to help train Lacey for a stack...seems to be working thus so far!



This is what I consider "extreme".

How can that be structurally sound, it just looks so unnatural.

ETA: Found this picture on a website, but looks a lot like the pup at the dog park that I'm talking about.
Doesn't the breed standard call for a relatively straight back without any sagging? That's some serious drooping if you ask me! Looks like he's squatting to take a poo XD

Also, the picture of an ideal German Shepherd on AKC.org doesn't look extreme at all. Why do you think people don't use that as a reference and breed extreme dogs?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The dog you posted ACampbell, is in no way an AKC dog. That dogs is purely west German, and his issue is not sagging, but roaching.

The extreme I refer to is the rear angulation of the dog. His angulation is actually pretty close to Justin's, so that is not his issue. The issue is a different extreme (his severely roached topline), which makes him look overangulated when in reality, if it weren't for that banana back he'd be very similar to Justin in structure.

Xeph, explain to me again why they make the GSD's stack like that?
Honestly...I don't think anyone really knows. It actually goes against what von Stephanitz wanted (shock). He wanted the dogs to be shown in a completely natural state with NO interference from the handler (freestacks for everybody). GSDs used to stack four square like other breeds (Wayyyyy back when).

The only overall answer I can give you is that people believe it makes the dog look more alert, like he's ready to spring into action at any moment (not that some of them could), and that they appear more watchful.

Would it be safe to say that many people that take the "stacked pictures" of their dogs OVER stack?
Yes and no. For example:

This is a beautiful dog...LOVE him standing...but I hate this stack with his hock flat on the ground. It makes him look more extreme than he really is and he looks unbalanced (in terms of angles, not physical standing balance). I haven't seen this dog in person or had my hands on him, but standing, I like him...he could just use a more flattering stack.


Justin winning his first point...it's a TERRIBLE picture. He's not particularly overstacked, but he doesn't look great. He looks very front heavy. The issue isn't me overstacking, it's the $#*@(&$#*( photog that is in such a rush that I don't have time to set up my dog properly.

While some dogs ARE purposely stretched to ridiculous proportions, at shows the issue is usually time. You don't GET to make your dog look the best (nevermind you) unless it's a group placement or BIS (and sometimes not even then x.x).

Why do you think people don't use that as a reference and breed extreme dogs?
That dog is actually Hatter (Covy-Tucker Hill's Manhattan), and I think he was fantastic. He was actually a small male, but very charismatic. I asked that same question once, and nobody actually ANSWERED it, they just picked the dog apart (useful right?). Overall what it comes down to is interpretation of the standard.

The GSD standard calls for angulation in the rear as close to a right angle as possible (the shoulder blade is also supposed to make an angle of 90 degrees), however, where you create that right angle varies (I can get pictures if necessary). The other thing is, should it make as close to a right angle as possible while standing naturally...or in a stacked position?

Interpretation.

Things like the dog above are a BLATANT disregard for the standard, but where you create a right angle in the hindquarter? Fully open to interpretation and thus, subject to human "error".
 
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