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I'm thinking I might want to teach Caeda to either crawl or creep with her belly low to the ground. I tried it once or twice in the past, but it isn't something she does often enough to capture, and when I've tried luring she just stands up and walks towards the treat. I also tried getting her to go under our old coffee table, but she just backs out (doesn't even TRY to creep forward) and goes around the table....its pretty low though so not the best thing to use anyway.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
 

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I've only successfully done this one using luring. The mistake I made the first few times I tried was not reward small enough increments.

So if she's in a down, move the treat half an inch from her nose and click+treat the movement toward the treat. Even if she's just moving her head, she's still in a down so that's a start. Then do another half an inch, another, then and inch, and so on. If she stands up, mark it with a no reward marker and get her back into a down.

I've done several sessions of this with Kaki and Tyler. They're still not to the point where they won't stand up but now I can hold the treat a foot or two away from their faces. Tyler's such a ham that I think he'll love doing this one when we have guests over.

If you want to keep trying to coffee table route, try blocking off the area surrounding it so that she can't go around. Hampers, baby gates, chairs, the sofa, etc. As with the other method, reward teeny tiny increments and efforts to go under the table.
 

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I've only successfully done this one using luring. The mistake I made the first few times I tried was not reward small enough increments.

So if she's in a down, move the treat half an inch from her nose and click+treat the movement toward the treat. Even if she's just moving her head, she's still in a down so that's a start. Then do another half an inch, another, then and inch, and so on.

That's how I do it. A lot probably depends on the physical abilities of the dog. My dog is small and mobile, so it's not too hard for him to crawl. A big swiss mountain dog may have difficulty, but yeah, even in the beginning I had to reward small increments, even if it was half an inch or so.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Smaller increments! Ugh:doh:, I think I completely overlooked that because she's out of that phase with all of her other training, thanks both of you for reminding me!! I'll try blocking the table off a bit better and see how it goes (maybe put it up on a couple of books so she doesn't keep bonking her head lol).

She isn't that big for a swissy, only 60+ lbs (rather than 100!), so she should physically have a reasonably easy time doing it, she's really agile. She's only crawled in two scenarios in the past though, one is if she is on the bed and wants to creep towards the cat (I'm usually in bed about to sleep too, so no treats or clicker on hand, and she doesn't do it if I try to set it up during the day), and when she wants to sniff under a rock overhang near the house, which usually has her to focused on the scent to be really useful to mark the behaviour.

I've got TONS of stuff to work on with her, mostly solidifying basic obedience, but I figure it might be nice for both of us to throw something in that is new and fun! :D
 

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I'm thinking I might want to teach Caeda to either crawl or creep with her belly low to the ground. I tried it once or twice in the past, but it isn't something she does often enough to capture, and when I've tried luring she just stands up and walks towards the treat. I also tried getting her to go under our old coffee table, but she just backs out (doesn't even TRY to creep forward) and goes around the table....its pretty low though so not the best thing to use anyway.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
I used the table with Wally. He initially backed out, but I kept encouraging him to get the treat, and removed it if he tried to "cheat". That way he learned going around ain't gonna work. He then figured out how to get down under the table. Then I did the same things mentioned with slowly moving the treat small differences, then mark and reward any small movement forward or even an attempted movement (front paws move but she hasn't figured out how to move the back ones yet - I'd take that to start).

You don't have to use the table, though. You can put your hand on her back to keep her in the down while she tries to move forward. I did that with Wally when his butt starts getting up in the air (especially once I tried for more speed, his butt popped up, I would put my hand on his butt (not a spank or hit) to remind him to "keep the butt down" and remove the treat until he gets it back down.

What's funny is now Wally will crawl on his own sometimes. I saw him crawling on the floor to sniff the carpet...crazy dog.
 

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You don't have to use the table, though. You can put your hand on her back to keep her in the down while she tries to move forward. I did that with Wally when his butt starts getting up in the air (especially once I tried for more speed, his butt popped up, I would put my hand on his butt (not a spank or hit) to remind him to "keep the butt down" and remove the treat until he gets it back down.
I have never had any success trying that. I tried it many years ago with my two GSDs and it didn't work. Being a 14 year old, naturally, I came to the conclusion that they were stoopid. Many attempts with plenty of dogs later, I've abandoned that method. Kaki "dies" when I put my hand on her back and Tyler, aka Caption Opposition Reflex, pushes back into it. Maybe you got lucky with The Wally or maybe I just don't have the right touch.

Also GS, Tyler weighs 17lbs more than Caeda and he's built like a tank so I don't think it's a problem with being physically incapable for her.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Caeda has a wicked opposition reflex, and it has taken (and is still taking) lots of practice with that on the leash, so pushing her back down isn't the best way to go for her....I haven't actually tried it for this behaviour, but I've got a funny feeling it'll be frustrating for us both lol (I hate being reminded that she is stronger than me sometimes!). I'll definitely keep going with the coffee table though.
I think speed has been my biggest shortfall in training her for lots of things, not going in small enough increments. She's so smart and figures independent things out on her own so quickly outside of training that training her slightly more "unnatural" behaviours I go too quickly. I'll have to do really short training sessions on this though....she tends to get frustrated, go through her known repitoire of behaviours, bark at me when she doesn't know what I want, then heave a big sigh and lay down.
This might be more of an opportunity for me to improve my training methods/timing/shaping with her, rather than just the goal of teaching her a new trick. 99% my fail on going too fast in the past, and 1% her being smart enough to be overestimated and also a little stubborn ;) I "know" going too fast and not going in steps can be an issue, but needed to be reminded. Thanks all!
 

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I have never had any success trying that. I tried it many years ago with my two GSDs and it didn't work. Being a 14 year old, naturally, I came to the conclusion that they were stoopid. Many attempts with plenty of dogs later, I've abandoned that method. Kaki "dies" when I put my hand on her back and Tyler, aka Caption Opposition Reflex, pushes back into it. Maybe you got lucky with The Wally or maybe I just don't have the right touch.
I don't push his back down. He's already in the down and I put my hand on his back. When I do that, he doesn't "pop up". It's more like his back hits my hand and he keeps it down. Same when his butt pops up, I put my hand on his butt and maybe just a little tiny "push" down, but usually, I just put my hand on his butt and he puts it down. It's the reverse of how I taught him "bow" - I put my hand under him and when he starts the movement, his chest hits my hand and he stops. Then I reward that pose frequently and heavily.

I don't think it's "luck" (I don't really believe in luck in training), but maybe Wally's opposition reflex isn't strong - or he doesn't utilize it because maybe it's me so he doesn't oppose what I do *shrug* who knows. I do know that if I tell him to "stay" then try to push him out of it, I feel his opposition reflex strongly - so I think he just doesn't oppose the touch.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't push his back down. He's already in the down and I put my hand on his back. When I do that, he doesn't "pop up".
AH!! Gotcha! That might work, if I press down I know I'm looking for trouble, but just as a reminder to stay down YEAH!
Awesome, I'm guessing I didn't have enough coffee today or I might have clued into that sooner:tea:
I tried a little bit of crawl with her today, I got her to stick her neck forwards and do one little nudge forward, and yes, I treated her for that! We both made some progress :D
 

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dont worry about size. my Lexi does crawl and shes 120lbs and tall.
 

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AH!! Gotcha! That might work, if I press down I know I'm looking for trouble, but just as a reminder to stay down YEAH!
Awesome, I'm guessing I didn't have enough coffee today or I might have clued into that sooner:tea:
I tried a little bit of crawl with her today, I got her to stick her neck forwards and do one little nudge forward, and yes, I treated her for that! We both made some progress :D

There you go. A crawl across the room begins with a single paw print.
 

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I taught it the same way KBLover did. Put Kuma in a down and lured him forward in small increments, with my hand held lightly over his back so that if he tried to pop up, he bumped it with his back. Worked great and crawl is one of his favorite tricks!
 

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I don't push his back down. He's already in the down and I put my hand on his back. When I do that, he doesn't "pop up". It's more like his back hits my hand and he keeps it down. Same when his butt pops up, I put my hand on his butt and maybe just a little tiny "push" down, but usually, I just put my hand on his butt and he puts it down. It's the reverse of how I taught him "bow" - I put my hand under him and when he starts the movement, his chest hits my hand and he stops. Then I reward that pose frequently and heavily.

I don't think it's "luck" (I don't really believe in luck in training), but maybe Wally's opposition reflex isn't strong - or he doesn't utilize it because maybe it's me so he doesn't oppose what I do *shrug* who knows. I do know that if I tell him to "stay" then try to push him out of it, I feel his opposition reflex strongly - so I think he just doesn't oppose the touch.
Crawl is easy, I guess. Have him squirrel his way under a tight path, you at the other end offering treats..
 

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....she tends to get frustrated, go through her known repitoire of behaviours, bark at me when she doesn't know what I want, then heave a big sigh and lay down.
This might be more of an opportunity for me to improve my training methods/timing/shaping with her, rather than just the goal of teaching her a new trick.
If Caeda is offering a repetoire of behaviours, lol .. then your being passive, and waiting, and picking out / rewarding any slight paw movement forward (in a down position), thus shaping the crawl ... may be the better or easier way to go ?

Just thinkin'.
 

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Crawl is easy, I guess. Have him squirrel his way under a tight path, you at the other end offering treats..
Wish I could! I'd do it in a minute.

Best I can do to challenge him is have him crawl under some lower furniture to get treats just under the furniture, or to get a ball, etc.
 
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