[Morten]

Nobody has a clue, 4-5 vets, no answers. She had a full blood analysis right after the incident with all the tests and everything returned normal values. She is 3 years old.

I have two youtube videos of the incidents. Looks really strange and scary. She's stressed but not in pain. It goes away as fast as it comes, and afterwards she's tired and not high energy. It has never happened when she's calm etc at home or on a walk when she's just taking it slowly.

In video 1 we were just about to start throwing sticks and fetch and such, she loves running after them. In the second video it started 2 minutes after she had absolutely detonated when she saw some grazing goats in the treeline, She howls and screams at them but obviously couldn't get to them because of the fence. We were just walking along then suddenly I notice she lifts one of the front legs, and I saw on her body language that it is happening again. neither days had hot weather and it was late afternoon.


video 1
Video 2


Any feedback is immensely appreciated

 

[DaySleepers]

I agree, that's pretty strange behavior and definitely doesn't look normal. Has she had any scans that look more closely and potential neurological issues, like and MRI or CAT scan? This might be a case that calls for a vet that specializes in something like neurology, since it seems to be affecting multiple limbs and possibly balance. That makes me think spine or nervous system, in my completely amateur, untrained opinion.

I would also contact her breeder and see if they've ever seen or heard of something like this before.

 

[Morten]

I agree, that's pretty strange behavior and definitely doesn't look normal. Has she had any scans that look more closely and potential neurological issues, like and MRI or CAT scan? This might be a case that calls for a vet that specializes in something like neurology, since it seems to be affecting multiple limbs and possibly balance. That makes me think spine or nervous system, in my completely amateur, untrained opinion.

I would also contact her breeder and see if they've ever seen or heard of something like this before.

I am trying to arrange for a CT/MRI scan soon, the vet have to send a request to the veterinary university.

I have had contact with the breeder and she said she had seen something similar with my dogs mother, but only once and many years ago. It didn't look that similar to this, and she thought it was just because the dog was unfit (she had bought the dog from someone else) so she didn't bother to check it because it wasn't so severe like this and it was only for 10 seconds or so, and the dog had been chasing and fooling around with another dog that lives there which at the time was way more fit because at the breeders place the dogs can run around the farm all day long. Never happened again she says.

 

[Lillith]

Yeah, that sure does look strange. It looks like she's unable to get her balance or tell her legs where she wants them to go. Maybe some sort of seizure caused by all the blood rushing to her head?

I agree with Daysleepers, a specialist is probably going to be your best bet. I imagine most regular vets simply don't have the training to diagnose something like that.

 

[DaySleepers]

Oof. I really hope the MRI shows something, poor girl. Smart that you took video, btw. At least you know the vets have as much information as possible going in, and working with a veterinary university is usually one of the best things you can do in a difficult case.

I'm not surprised she's tired after. Whatever it is, it's clearly either painful or distressing (possibly both), and that can be absolutely exhausting to go through. Our poodle is currently on crate rest and painkillers for a (hopefully minor) spinal injury, and I see the same thing with him after he recovers from a painful episode.

Lykke til og god bedring to her.

 

[Morten]

I have searched on google a lot, and found something called exercise induced collapse but it is not possible to test for in other breeds than labrador retriever. Called the vet about it, and it was not possible to verify in this breed. I found an old youtube video of a belgian shepherd groenendael acting similar to mine, video but I'm fairly sure my dog hasn't been overheating although you can see in my video there's quite a lot of saliva production when she's panting,.

 

[Bluemoods]

I'd be seeking a consult with a neurologist, that looks like some kind of neurological problem. While it might be a tumor or injury, or even a parasite, it could also be a few other things. You need a specialist to tell you what's going on.

 

[Morten]

I'd be seeking a consult with a neurologist, that looks like some kind of neurological problem. While it might be a tumor or injury, or even a parasite, it could also be a few other things. You need a specialist to tell you what's going on.

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I agree with checking with a specialist and neurologist. I wonder how it is possible to be a tumor because her mother also had something like this when she was 1 years old or something, although not severe like this. I'm hoping it isn't serious, for her sake. I have no money because I cannot work because of chronic health issue even though I'm only 20. I have health insurance for her so it wouldn't hit me financially, her health is the absolutely the most important thing for me. She means so much to me. She has had xray for elbows and hip and also eye checks from a specialist and she's perfectly healthy. You think it could be spinal injury? She is acting perfectly normal in gait and movement, so elegant. Very good fine-muscle control, opens doors in 0,5 second no matter which way they swing and it's no problem if she has to stand on stairs to open a door, always knows where her paws are. Everyone tells me she runs so elegant and majestically when she plays fetch 😛 injury sounds unlikely for me. Is it possible to act perfectly normal then something happens that triggers it?

 

[Bluemoods]

Talk to the SPCA, there are vets and specialists that will work out payment arrangements and/or have private funds for those that cannot afford their services. You may also be able to get low cost pet insurance form the SPCA that will cover up to 80% of the cost of whatever treatment she needs. Combine that with a vet that will work with you on the balance and, I think you can manage to get her the care she needs. Worst case, you find out what she needs and, have to do a fundraiser to help pay for her treatment.

I'm no vet but, I'm thinking along the lines of epilepsy, stress and some external stimuli can trigger seizures in humans, I'd expect it to be the same for dogs. If that does turn out to be the case, know that in dogs, just like humans, it can be idiopathic- no cause, it just happens. to some individuals for no reason.

 

[Morten]

Talk to the SPCA, there are vets and specialists that will work out payment arrangements and/or have private funds for those that cannot afford their services. You may also be able to get low cost pet insurance form the SPCA that will cover up to 80% of the cost of whatever treatment she needs. Combine that with a vet that will work with you on the balance and, I think you can manage to get her the care she needs. Worst case, you find out what she needs and, have to do a fundraiser to help pay for her treatment.

I'm no vet but, I'm thinking along the lines of epilepsy, stress and some external stimuli can trigger seizures in humans, I'd expect it to be the same for dogs. If that does turn out to be the case, know that in dogs, just like humans, it can be idiopathic- no cause, it just happens. to some individuals for no reason.

My vet also thought that it might be idiopathic epilepsy but she couldn't tell for sure because it didn't look like anything she had seen. All the vets are saying it's really strange behavior. I live in Norway. My dog is insured for 3670 USD which might not be a lot for US healthcare if it's the same for animals like it's for humans. The health insurance funds is probably all gone with just a consultation at the veterinary University though, looking at their estimates

The over excitement is what seems to trigger it. She is the most balls-to-the-walls intensely excitable and energetic dog there is.the vet was surprised. When I go for a walk together with my friends (which she is absolutely in love with) she howls like a Alaskan sled dog, up on hind legs rushing for an adventure. At home she is totally relaxed and cozy all the time. Almost like bipolar with some good amount of naturally-occuring mdma. She never looks sad or depressed though, she's always happy and that's what keeping me happy.

 

[CptJack]

This looks a looooot like Exercise Induced Collapse to me. My border collie has a pretty mild version of it and I know some herders with more severe versions and that high stepping/uncoordinated with the legs thing is pretty classic (for mid stages/before actual collapse). Not... that high per-se, but the high leg lifts is a thing.

Add in what her triggers are (excitement, and worse in hot weather), I'd almost bet the farm on it being EIC - the farm, but not a dog's life, so definitely exclude absolutely everything you can.

Sadly, it is (aside from labs) a Dx of exclusion, and there's no real treatment.

Fortunately, it's not really dangerous. Probably.

 

[DaySleepers]

@CptJack I thought EIC during the first video, but the leg-lifting on the second really threw me. I didn't know that was part of the symptoms - definitely a possibility in that case, I agree.

 

[Morten]

When she lifts her hind legs that high it looks like yoga. She didn't trip over there the leash when it was kinda in the way, but she does stumble a little. the yoga is what threw the vets off too

 

[3GSD4IPO]

I agree with EIC with your dog. It is genetic based.
It could also be a form of epilepsy but considering the apparent trigger, I am with the others.. EIC, especially the wide stance and ataxia associated with the hind legs.

Pretty dog.

 

[Francl27]

DNA tests can tell you if your dog has EIC. I did Wisdom Panel for mine and they tested for it. Kinda strange that a vet wouldn't do it, but it's probably cheaper to do it with DNA tests anyway (it's $100).

 

[Morten]

DNA tests can tell you if your dog has EIC. I did Wisdom Panel for mine and they tested for it. Kinda strange that a vet wouldn't do it, but it's probably cheaper to do it with DNA tests anyway (it's $100).

The vet said it is not possible to do DNA test for EIC in this breed because the genetic marker for the trait is not found. She asked the other vets and also asked the blood analysis laboratory and they said it's not possible.

 

[CptJack]

The vet said it is not possible to do DNA test for EIC in this breed because the genetic marker for the trait is not found. She asked the other vets and also asked the blood analysis laboratory and they said it's not possible.

This.

The genetic marker for EIC has only been found in labs. The marker responsible for what is called called BCC (Border Collie collapse but present in other herding breeds) hasn't been identified.

 

[CptJack]

When she lifts her hind legs that high it looks like yoga. She didn't trip over there the leash when it was kinda in the way, but she does stumble a little. the yoga is what threw the vets off too

Yeah, it's more extreme than I've seen but the basic behavior is... damned close. They do some weird things sometimes when they're 'going' toward collapse :/ And as weird as it sounds, and while I encourage you to pursue as much as you can, I HOPE it is EIC, because really it's the best possible 'neurological' problem there is.

 

[Morten]

When she lifts her hind legs that high it looks like yoga. She didn't trip over there the leash when it was kinda in the way, but she does stumble a little. the yoga is what threw the vets off too

Yeah, it's more extreme than I've seen but the basic behavior is... damned close. They do some weird things sometimes when they're 'going' toward collapse 😕 And as weird as it sounds, and while I encourage you to pursue as much as you can, I HOPE it is EIC, because really it's the best possible 'neurological' problem there is.

Yeah. I read that EIC could be deadly in some cases if the dog is not able to relax and lay still. Whatever it may be, the possibility of having puppies in the house is slim to none, which is a shame because she's the best female of the litter and also good health and personality otherwise.

 

[DaySleepers]

Let us know what her final diagnosis is for sure - I'll be hoping it's either something fixable or very manageable (like EIC usually is). She's such a pretty girl, and it sounds like you're doing everything you can to help her out.