Okay. I know this is a controversial topic but I have been going back and forth with this idea of people suggesting to me that Bella might have a little "something something" in her. Most recently is my trainer. She said that she had two dogs in the past that were very high wolf content and that she believes Bella might have some wolf or possibly coyote in her! Um REALLY?
I got her as a pup from SPCA who rescued her from a Reserve in Northern British Columbia. Given the location and the environment with lots of feral dogs running around it is possible but I don't know how to look at a dog and determine these things.
I will attach some pictures. As far as her temp. personality she is a little different. She has always had very strong eye contact, even at 8 weeks old she would stare me down. Very alert at all times (sleeps with one eye open). Very quiet in the house, only barks during play occasionally or if she sees something in the backyard. She loves people and whenever she greets someone she always tries to kiss them. Very sweet and loving but not really the cuddly type. She is submissive yet very playful.
Also something that comes to mind is her ears. They are very mobile. Straight up when alert. Out to the sides like and airplane when she's relaxed. Flat against her head when submissive. Moving all around and cockeyed when she hears something or is nervous. I know all dogs do this to some extent but I've never seen it like this...
Anyways sorry this was so long and thanks for checking this out. I won't say what I think because I really don't know what to think!:redface:
I don't think she has any wolf or coyote in her (in recent generations anyway). But the res dogs, kind of half-wild, can be similar to a wild dog in looks and temperment. So probably the closest thing would be Carolina Dog, although there's usually more sled breeds in the northern areas.
She reminds me of my friend's Carolina Dog a lot. Especially the ears. (Which are so adorable! I love huge ears like that.)
Her behavior/personality sounds like his dog, too. I thought he was exaggerating a bit, because he went from cats straight to shelter Carolina Dog, but maybe not.
Thanks everyone for your opinions so far. She does look and act a lot like a Carolina Dog so I was kind of going towards that too. She could just be the result of years a and years of cross breeding that creates a wild dog/dingo appearance, right? However the trainer in our puppy class keeps hinting she thinks there might be some wolf or coyote in there.
Only thing that would make me think Coyote in her outward appearance is the black tipped tail she has. It's unusual for a dog of that color pattern. However, if Coyote IS the case, it's probably been diluted and is back a few generations. She's really cute!
Yes, the black tip kind of feels out of place on her. When she was just a baby her muzzle was blackish too but it has since receded away there is just a bit under her nose and chin. Actually the shelter had listed her as German Shepherd because apparently some of her litter mates had Shepherd markings. Does anybody see Shepherd in her? Maybe it's kind of silly to try and guess what she is, but what I'll take from this so far is none of you think she's a true hybrid.
Yeah Rescued I see what you mean about the similar coloring, black markings around the mouth, very interesting. Thank you for sharing. It must have to do with all of the cross breeding because I am all the way in British Columbia Canada.
Isn't it possible for pups in the same litter to have different fathers? If it is, then maybe she and her litter mates don't share the same genetics. Or maybe she just displays a different expression of the same genes. I'm a complete throwback to my grandmother, short dark eyed and dark haired while my parents and siblings are tall and have light eyes and hair. Genetics can be weird.
Janess,
It's possible, but not likely that your dog is part Carolina Dog. I'm not an expert on dogs, but I know a lot about that breed. You dog may look similar for a very good reason though. In researching the Carolina Dog it's been found that the basic doggie DNA is very similar in all pariah dogs (Carolina Dog, dingo, jindo, New Guinnea singing dog and others) All modern breeds are time altered versions of these primitive dogs. As a result, if you mutt breed long enough, the DNA choices that determine characteristics like coat color, build, tail aspect, etc. start to default. So if you mutt breed long enough you do end up with a medium sized, ginger color dog with big, straight ears and a slightly curles tail. This may or may not be the case with your dog. But it hardly matters. A good dog is a good dog. And a dog with all the doggie base line characteristics is just a great dog. One way to tell if your dog may be part Carolina is to examine the coat. Is there a single coat? Or is there a very fine downy underlayer as well as a main coat? There are other Carolina specific traits too. You can read all about the breed all over the web.
Yep. She's a cutie. The OP noted some pronounced independant ear control. This is a genus trait of the primitive dogs too. Just cute as you could imagine. My wife and I joke that we should have named our dog Radar (his name is Benny. Given by his rescue agency). But we thought it best not to confuse his name too many times in his life. The OP's dog has the Carolina colorings. But the coat, the tail and the eyes look wrong. That's why I think she may be a regression rather than a trait specific primitive dog. And as I said, it hardly matters. She isn't a coyote. Not that coyotes are bad pets from what I've read. But I've never had one. Maybe a tiny hybrid chip (black tip on the tail). Carolina Dog's are VERY attached to their owners. Smart and interactive, the tail is used for communication with other Carolina dogs. The eye's are almond shaped. Like Dingo's. The coat is as I described above. They seem to have an instinct for getting along with humans. This would be consistent with the pariah dog ancestry. They're smart enough to "study" us on their own terms!!! A very different experience from owning most other breeds. The OP's description seems to fit a lot of these traits. And good for them. It's a great experience to own a dog like this. But... As I said before. There are a few ways to get to a medium sized, ginger colored dog with straight ears (and the other primitive pariah traits) There are a few appearent differences between the OP's dog and Carolina dogs. And it also seems regionally unlikely that she is a Carolina dog. But it's a big world and anything can happen.
Thanks for your input Chuck, very interesting! Do you have a Carolina dog? I also highly doubt that Bella is a Carolina dog. She was born in a very remote part of Northern British Columbia. The whole litter of puppies was found in a dumpster on a Native Reservation. So the probability of her being a Carolina dog is about the same as her being a Dingo I just find it fascinating though how many traits she does share with the Carolina dog. Also the idea of these types of dogs that show up all over the world is very cool. We love her so much she is a great dog, and we are so lucky to have her.
The temperament traits are very against her being Wolf or Coyote mix. Both Wolf and Coyote mixes tend to be very wary and sometimes fearful of strangers and new people. The strong eye contact is also a VERY doggy trait, wild mixes are normally programmed to avoid strong eye contact.
I do have a Carolina dog. Actually, I DID have a carolina dog. Her name was Bonnie. Got her as a puppy. She was as close to pure Carolina as modern dogs get. As long as civilization has been in close proximity to the relatively small current range for the wild dogs, I doubt there has been NO feral interbreeding. Bonnie was VERY different from most domestic dogs. In fact, she didn't care for other dogs at all. Not aggressive, but utterly impartial. She didn't care for unfamiliar people either. Not agressive, but afraid. This is normal for the breed. From what I've read Carolina dogs only recognize other Carolina dogs as "dogs". All other dog breeds are considered some OTHER animal or potential prey. Yikes. But breeders are selecting for temperement and well socialized Carolinas do fine with other dogs. Bonnie died about two years ago at the age of fourteen. My current dog is a pitbull/Carolina mix (as stated by the rescue agency, but what do they know). Oddly enough he was names Benny by the rescue agency. From my familiarity with the breed I DO think they're right. He's only good with other ALPHA dogs. Little dogs and puppies are in danger around him. So he's on the leash at the dog park unless we can put him in a holding area with one or more large alpha types. Then he frolics and plays just fine. He did get the pit trait of being VERY loving with people. A nice change. He loves everyone. He's very good with our cat and chickens. This is strictly because of his Carolina lineage. Carolina dogs will ignore all other impulses to please the pack leader. So if "I" command him to not eat my cat or chickens, he won't. Now he lays around with all of them in the yard. What a good boy. I've only had him a year. And even though he's a very boisterous dog, he's very smart. Things are working out very well and I expect them to get even better.
Thank you for asking!
Bella may yet be Carolina dog. I've outlined many traits in temperement and behavior and features already. It's pretty easy to find info on the breed. But it hardly matters. As I noted, all dogs that are interbred and mixed breeds get closer to the original doggie traits of their baseline DNA. Meaning that if you mutt breed long enough you get back to something very like a Carolina dog, or dingo, or a Korean Jindo, etc. All primitive pariah dogs. The Jindo (or Chindo Gae or Jindogae) is sacred and revered in a country where they actually farm dogs for food! They won't eat Jindo's any more than they would another person but all other breeds are fair game!?! Gross, I know, but also a testament to the endearing nature of this type of dog. It doesn't matter if Bella is close to her roots because of regression or breeding. She is special. I know because I've found a breed I plan to stick with.
Thanks Chuck for sharing your experiences with the breed. It's really great to talk to someone who understands this "type" of dog. She is the first dog I have raised from a pup so it is hard for me to compare, but I have always had this feeling that she is different, and special like you said. As a pup Bella was terrified of other dogs and people. That was not going to fly because we live in a city with lot's of dog owners around, so we had to work very hard to socialize her as much as possible. Now she is the complete opposite, she loves everyone and is actually over friendly, just wants to lick everyones face off! She also loves to play with other dogs at our local park and has yet to meet a dog that she doesn't like, but she is only 8 months yet so that is something that I will watch out for....
What you mentioned about ability to control impulses really stands out to me as well. Sometimes she will bark if she sees an animal out in the yard. I'll just give her a little nudge and tell her no and she will stop. It's funny though because you can really tell how hard she's trying to hold back and she'll start to puff her lips out and cry to hold in her excitement, while I try not to laugh
Thanks again for sharing what you know. I had done some research on the breed a while back when I noticed how similar she looked, good to know that I was not to far off. Also good to know that nobody on here sees much in the way of wolf or coyote in her!
Beautiful girl, not seeing any wolf or coyote myself. Not too familiar with the Carolina dogs; I may have missed it but is she displaying specific behaviors that the trainer would deem different?
Well it's been a while now, and we don't use that trainer anymore so I can't really remember exactly what it was that made her think Bella was part wolf. Actually I think she was thinking she looked a lot like a coyote...I do remember I was having a problem with Bella when she was around 5 months old nipping us on the lips. When I asked her (the trainer) what I could do about this she suggested this was a wolf trait. She talked about how wolf trainers will let the wolves lick their teeth and that is how they greet you. She grew out of the nipping thing but she does always want to lick people right on the lips whenever she meets them.
That is the only specific trait that I can remember from the trainer. I think she was mainly just going off of looks...
She looks like a village dog.
If you let dogs breed randomly for several generations they all come out rather like this. True to a sort of ancestral dog type. Smaller (30-40lbs), sortof foxy (colour varries, but I'm talking about more delicate features), some wilder habits but generally still alright with people.
That's where feral dog populations came from, and it continues to happen when dogs breed unchecked.
I'm late to this thread but thought you might appreciate another opinion. I am the Intake/Outreach Coordinator for a Carolina Dog rescue and conservation. Bella looks very much like a CD. Although you would think that BC is not their typical territory, while you would be right, it doesn't hold true anymore. They were originally 'rediscovered' by Dr. Brisbin in the southern US and seem to prefer warm, humid environments. However, we have been surprised to discover in the last 10 years that there are pockets of them in Texas, Colorado, New Mexico and even Ohio. Our theory on this is that while some populations stayed in their natural environment, numbers also went with the Native Americans to the reservations. A pariah dog (not a feral dog) follows humans. So I find that interesting that your Bella was found in the reservations. This would support our theory. With your permission, may I show her pics to the conservation?
Chuck had some good information but I will say that he needs to make sure he understand CD behavior before he recommends them to the wrong family. While a CD can be trained to resist chickens, cats and other small animals it is quite rare. They are STRONG hunters and once they have been introduced to it, it is almost impossible for them to resist. I say this after many years of working with this breed and working with CDs from all over the US, both well socialized and unsocialized. They are known to kill chickens and cats and I would not recommend them to this type of home unless the individual was quite experienced with primitive breeds and the dog was young.
I would also like to express that I do not see any wolf or coy in your girl. We have a confirmed CD/coy mix at the farm and I will see if I can attach pics so you can see the difference. We rescued her from animal control where they thought she was a full coyote. She isn't full, but it's definitely there.
Thanks for the info Cybru, very interesting to hear another point of view. You're more than welcome to use Bella's photos. She was only about 7 months in those photos. She's two now so I'll see if I can upload some more recent picks. She's around 65 lbs, I think that's a little large for a CD? That dog you posted looks a lot like Bella to me, especially the tail and color/markings but I can see that dog has sharper (less doglike i guess?) features.
65 pounds is pretty large. They average 40-50 pounds. Sometimes we see up to 60 in the males. Is she overweight? Bella is similar in coloring, but her muzzle is much fuller and shorter, and her tail is more doglike instead of bottle brush.
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