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Discussion Starter #1
I have finally made up my mind that if the right opportunity presents itself I am open to getting another dog.

My current buddy is about 10 months old. We rescued him off the side of the road when he was 12-14 weeks and named him Tweed due to his red merle coloring, and he is some sort of Cocker spaniel mix. He is potty trained, and a lot of fun, and has learned to cope with the fact that my daughter and I are not really very active people.

I have several questions about adding another dog to our family.

1) I plan to get one that is younger than Tweed, and which will be about the same size when mature: I want them to be well matched physically for playing. Is this a good idea?

2) I hope they can both learn to sleep together in the kennel. It is quite large. Is this likely? Will the dogs enjoy being together?

3) I keep hearing "don't get a dog for your dog", but really, that is one of the main reasons. Yet I have read that most people who have two dogs don't let them stay together alone. If this is true, then I may need to reconsider. Tweed will be alone a lot when school starts, and I'm worried that he will be lonely. So if another dog is not going to help that I need to think again. I do have a yard, and they would be outside most of the time when we are gone, with the possible option of having access to come inside to the kitchen area.

4) As long as the dog is spayed/neutered, does it matter what gender I choose?

5) Tweed is quite attached to me. If I go into another room and close the door, he will come and lay by the door until I come out again. What are the possible changes that might occur in his relationship to me if I add another dog?

thanks in advance for any advice.

shallbe
 

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Well, I would not recommend keeping two dogs crated together. That could be very dangerous because a minor dispute in which one dog would move away could end up escalating because they can't get away from one another.
 

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I'll put my thoughts/comments in bold since I always mess up multi-quotes.

I have finally made up my mind that if the right opportunity presents itself I am open to getting another dog.

My current buddy is about 10 months old. We rescued him off the side of the road when he was 12-14 weeks and named him Tweed due to his red merle coloring, and he is some sort of Cocker spaniel mix. He is potty trained, and a lot of fun, and has learned to cope with the fact that my daughter and I are not really very active people.
It will be hard to find a young dog who is not active. You should also consider that your current dog might want to be much more active once he has a buddy around. Has he "learned to cope" in that his own natural energy level matches yours or is he just dealing with it and not really suited to that level of activity?

I have several questions about adding another dog to our family.

1) I plan to get one that is younger than Tweed, and which will be about the same size when mature: I want them to be well matched physically for playing. Is this a good idea?

I think it is generally nice as a sort of convenience factor but not a requirement to have dogs physically near the same size. A match of energy level and playing style is more important though. A high energy small dog might annoy the crap out of a calm large dog while a high energy large dog might accidentally hurt a delicate small dog. Yet as an example, my 80 lbs hound plays well with a friend's 10 lbs Jack Russell simply because they are both tough, active dogs and the JRT actually runs the show

2) I hope they can both learn to sleep together in the kennel. It is quite large. Is this likely? Will the dogs enjoy being together?
I would never kennel two dogs together. IMO no matter how well they get along, they shouldn't be cooped up in a small space together. "small" really is anything smaller than a few rooms of a house. Not safe.

3) I keep hearing "don't get a dog for your dog", but really, that is one of the main reasons. Yet I have read that most people who have two dogs don't let them stay together alone. If this is true, then I may need to reconsider. Tweed will be alone a lot when school starts, and I'm worried that he will be lonely. So if another dog is not going to help that I need to think again. I do have a yard, and they would be outside most of the time when we are gone, with the possible option of having access to come inside to the kitchen area.
I'm of the "not together alone" camp although I do know people who do it successfully. More common is only loose together when people are home, including at night while sleeping, and some people who will leave them alone together for short periods of time (an hour or two) as long as the dogs have plenty of space to get away from each other and there are not toys or chews to fight over. As for getting a dog for your dog, you run the risk of the dogs not liking each other or flat out hating each other and then what do you do? You have to rotate dogs or rehome one basically. Lots of dogs are home alone daily without any issue. You can try things like doggie daycare sometimes, playdates with dog buddies, walking partners, dog parks, and other options for letting him socialize with dogs and that is often plenty for the average dog (I am assuming that Tweed is well socialized with other dogs and likes the vast majority of them-- if not, immediately rethink your plan to get another dog

4) As long as the dog is spayed/neutered, does it matter what gender I choose?
Depends on the dogs

5) Tweed is quite attached to me. If I go into another room and close the door, he will come and lay by the door until I come out again. What are the possible changes that might occur in his relationship to me if I add another dog?
that could change in many ways. He could get more attached and needy or he could care less and less about you and focus more on the other dog. He could be a resource guarder and guard you from the other dog (happened to a friend of mine, took over a year to work out) or it might be no big deal at all and change nothing.

thanks in advance for any advice.

shallbe
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, I really appreciate Shell's advice. Unfortunately I didn't see it until today...and we've already chosen and adopted a dog.

Yes, Tweed does guard me and other resources. They play, but they also fight occasionally.

I can take little miss Jubilee back to the shelter if I must, but of course I don't want to. They must be able to get along outside (they get along a LOT better outside--more neutral territory, I guess) for 12 hours a day beginning August 27. If that is a pipe-dream, I need to know now. But the people at the shelter and also the veterinarian thinks that they will be fine. Are they wrong? Am I hoping for too much?

Like I said, I've never owned two dogs before, and if this is not going to work, this little girlie needs a good home and I need to take her back to the shelter where she might find one.

shallbe
 

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Do you mean you want them to be loose together and outside for 12 hours per day? By next month and they already have occasional fights? Not off to a good start.

What do you mean by fights? Has anyone drawn blood? Or would likely have drawn blood if you weren't there to stop them?

I dunno. I can't say if it will work or not, but I think it is a pretty lofty goal. For one, the longer they are hanging around outside, the more bored they will get. Bored dogs=destructive dogs. If Tweed is resource guarding, any toy or stick outside can become a "resource" If you are gone 12 hours per day, how much exercise and training will you be able to give each dog? Even dogs who have lower physical energy need time for training and attention. Although their bodily needs might be met by being outside during the day, between being gone that long and sleeping at night, it becomes very very difficult to provide mental and emotional stimulation for the dogs.

Is outside a large area? What is the fencing like? Will they have access to a climate controlled (A/C in this season) area?

Is it a no-kill shelter? What might happen to the dog if you take her back?

Edit to add:
What breed (or mix or best guess) is the new pup? How old is she?
 

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I agree it's an awful idea to leave them alone outside 12 hours a day.

We have a large piece of property with free range chickens and lots of shady spots, and I don't like to leave my 1yo siblings from different litters alone for more than 2 hours.

Case in point: we were washing the car, and from somewhere Sacha found a 6inch length of thick rope that she decided was a very valuable resource. Bob was off asleep in a corner of the front yard, and I walked onto the veranda to grab something. She had 'that look' about her and scampered around when I got close, so I traded up with some raw beef cubes for the rope section.

But I'm sure if Bob had tried to take it from her, it would have been at least a quarrel.

It does sound like you might not have a lot of time for caring for dogs right now.

Check out this article that talks about how to raise 2 dogs together for a healthy result:

I've found having 2 is triple or quadruple the work sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, I wish that article had come up in the many searches that I did before visiting the shelter. I would have made another decision.

Tweed has to stay. He was rescued off the side of the road. No matter how "horrible" my ownership is according to others, it is better for him than where he was.

Jubilee will have to go back to the shelter. I would rehome her, and I even think I have people who might take her, but the shelter had me sign a paper that I would bring her back there. So I must keep my word.

I am ashamed and embarrassed. I also signed a paper that asked me how long I was willing to try to make it work with her, and I confidently put "as long as it takes". But that sounds like it will be forever, so the sooner I swallow my pride and take her back, the better.

I was so sure I was doing the right thing for both of these animals. But it wouldn't be fair to either of them to keep her.

Thank you for your advice.

shallbe
 

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We're not saying you can't make it work. We're asking questions to see what it might take to make it work.
Which might mean a dog walker during the long day, separate kennel runs outside with shade and water if they have to be outside, training class (just a basic obedience class for each) etc.

That said, if you simply don't have the time, you don't have the time.

If the shelter is NOT a no-kill shelter, ask if you can find another rescue or shelter that might accept her. Or if they offer a program like "guaranteed attempt to place" which means that as long as the dog is physically healthy and has good behavior, the dog can stay as long as needed to find a home without risk of being PTS.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I answered all your questions. You and the article indicate that it won't work.

Dog walker during day=$$

Separate kennels outside=$$

Training class--not going to happen for many reasons, but one of them is that I do train both dogs.

The shelter is small, local and friendly. They do their best to keep the dogs and home them. I will offer to help as much as I can--i.e., put an ad in the paper, offer to give the new owners the kennel I bought for her, yadda.

I am a single mom, widow, and finally I have landed a 40-hour a week job. I must work that job AND another to keep food on the table. So me being out of the house is not an option. I also have a grandbaby and anticipate more. They won't be able to see me often, but when they do, I can't be worrying about the dogs.

Thanks
 

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I answered all your questions. You and the article indicate that it won't work.

Dog walker during day=$$

Separate kennels outside=$$

Training class--not going to happen for many reasons, but one of them is that I do train both dogs.

The shelter is small, local and friendly. They do their best to keep the dogs and home them. I will offer to help as much as I can--i.e., put an ad in the paper, offer to give the new owners the kennel I bought for her, yadda.

I am a single mom, widow, and finally I have landed a 40-hour a week job. I must work that job AND another to keep food on the table. So me being out of the house is not an option. I also have a grandbaby and anticipate more. They won't be able to see me often, but when they do, I can't be worrying about the dogs.

Thanks
This is going to sound mean but it sounds like your lifestyle doesn't really accommodate ONE dog, never mind two? We chose to have dogs and that means we have to be there for them by providing for them and being there for them physically. If you are working two dogs, one being 40 hours a week AND want to be mobile to see your grandkids that leaves just minutes a day for your dog (the one you are keeping).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, thanks for the encouragement, Rocky911.

People, let me just say I GOT THE MESSAGE.

I'm a bad dog mommy. It's just the way it is.

I've already admitted to being ashamed and embarrassed at making this bad decision. Of course, now that the decision's been made every one seems to have an opinion on it, usually one that makes me out to be a doofus. But before the decision was made, I got very few replies to this thread.

Nice.

I suppose that you think the best thing, Rocky911, is for me to put BOTH dogs in the shelter??? That will somehow be a better life for them both? Because that is the only solution to your suggestion that I am a bad dog mommy.

I appreciate all your efforts and I have taken your advice to heart, don't get me wrong. But to anyone else who wants to comment on this thread, if you don't have suggestions for a solution to this problem other than the shelter or $$$, then don't bother. I know what to do now. And I know what you all think of me.

shallbe
 

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Well, I really appreciate Shell's advice. Unfortunately I didn't see it until today...and we've already chosen and adopted a dog.
Considering that I replied 16 MINUTES after you posted your initial question, I don't see how you can complain like this:

But before the decision was made, I got very few replies to this thread.
Now, as for this:
I answered all your questions. You and the article indicate that it won't work.

Dog walker during day=$$

Separate kennels outside=$$

Training class--not going to happen for many reasons, but one of them is that I do train both dogs.
No, you didn't answer my questions. I posed several questions that related to their behavior and their living situation which were not addressed and MAY have had a solution that was being overlooked.

Separate kennels-- I see 10x10 chain link kennels on craiglist for under $200 fairly regularly. I have even seen rescues willing to assist in finding an affordable kennel if it keeps a dog out of a shelter. I'm not saying that is what you should or shouldn't do, just that it was a reasonable suggestion for a not very large amount of money.

Dog walker- I agree that is more pricey, but I didn't see where you said anything about being on such a strict budget. A friend of mine used a dog walker for awhile when she had 12 hour days and it worked very well.

Training classes- it was never said that you didn't or wouldn't train the dogs, but training classes have other benefits than simply teaching a dog to sit or stay. They provide socialization, distraction proofing, one-on-one attention for the dog getting trained and guidance with any problems that may crop up such as the mentioned resource guarding. Around here, a class runs about $80 for 6-8 weekly sessions which is a drop in the bucket financially when it comes to dog ownership.

All this said, if you aren't up for creative problem solving and aren't able or willing to put in the time to work with the dog (maybe your daughter could have done some of the training... I didn't see her schedule mentioned) then yes, it may be best for her to be returned to the shelter. You could tell the person you know that might want her to come to the shelter with you-- you can fulfill your contractual obligation to "return" her and yet she could potentially be immediately adopted by that other person and not have to be stuck there again.
 

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People ask for advice they don't really want, then get angry when they find out they're in the wrong.
smh.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Look, HollowHeaven, I think it's rather obvious that I've been willing to come back here repeatedly and take my licks, trying to get answers. And all of you have been quite willing to hand those out, haven't you? No compassion for the one who has paid out the $$ to try to give my dog a nice life and also save another dog from a not-so-nice-life...no. Just "bad mommy"! Well, thanks. I've said it before--I'm trying to distance myself from the tone and still get information.

I didn't see Shell's answer. It wasn't due to a lack of wanting to see it. I have the emails set up to let me know when there are replies--I received no email. When I returned to the forum to see if there were any answers, the only one I saw was Kafkabeetle's.

Shell, I've read back through all your posts, and the only questions I have failed to answer are:

You should also consider that your current dog might want to be much more active once he has a buddy around. Has he "learned to cope" in that his own natural energy level matches yours or is he just dealing with it and not really suited to that level of activity?

I did say that he had learned to cope. He is still a puppy. I was actually hoping for his friend to give him more of a reason to be up and around.

As for getting a dog for your dog, you run the risk of the dogs not liking each other or flat out hating each other and then what do you do?

Which is now exactly what we are talking about.

In reply to your thoughts about an obedience class: I said there were other reasons for not doing that. One is that the closest ones are an hour and a half away. Another is that I am starting a new job, and keeping my second job. Maybe some of you are independently wealthy and are able to stay home with your animals and take them to classes and stuff.

As far as my daughter's schedule is concerned: she is entering highschool this year. She will leave the house when I leave, and return when I return.

I have friends here locally who have multiple dogs. They work and are away from home a lot, too. They all seem to be doing well. They don't take their dogs to obedience classes and never did. They don't kennel them separately--which, btw, I did choose to do. Each pup has his/her own private place to be safe when resting. Their dogs live, eat, sleep and play together, no big deal.

I have been made quite aware that my decision was a bad one made at a bad time. Now I have to make the best of it. I still want to do what's best for both animals and my family.

Thank you for letting me know about the kennels. I will try to keep my eye open for one of those. It might be part of the solution.

Actually, the way I see it, good has been done all around, here in this thread. I have gotten information, and all of you posters have had the chance to feel noble and superior. It's win-win, right?:rockon:

And next time, I'll know where not to come if I'm already feeling beat up about something.:fish:

shallbe
 

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Thanks for trying to rescue the dog- I know it's going to be hard to give her back.

I know you're feeling crappy, but I really don't see anyone beating up on you. I only say this because I had the same thought about 12 hour days and the amount of time you have for a dog as Rocky did. Priorities change- out of necessity and sometimes circumstances beyond our control- but there are stop-gap measures for short-term problems. And all problems are short-term.

I also noticed that your original post said you made up your mind before posting...so I could understand why you'd be upset. It probably felt like a done deal. :-(



And next time, I'll know where not to come if I'm already feeling beat up about something.:fish:

shallbe
 

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Shell, I've read back through all your posts, and the only questions I have failed to answer are:
These are the questions I was referring to:
What do you mean by fights? Has anyone drawn blood? Or would likely have drawn blood if you weren't there to stop them?
Is outside a large area? What is the fencing like? Will they have access to a climate controlled (A/C in this season) area?
What breed (or mix or best guess) is the new pup? How old is she?
If you are gone 12 hours per day, how much exercise and training will you be able to give each dog?
If I missed something, point it out, but I didn't see a response to any of these questions which were directed at trying to solve your problem, not to speak down to you in any way.

You have to see that we can only suggest solutions based on the information given. You say you are going to be working long hours, until you clarified your financial situation, there was no indication that you weren't working long hours in a lucrative field and had plenty of money to pay for a dog walker or doggie daycare. Etc. That is an example.

Maybe some of you are independently wealthy and are able to stay home with your animals and take them to classes and stuff.
I would say that the majority of us here work full time or are full time students or both. Outside of work, I spend the vast majority of my free time devoted to my dog and my fosters. So doing classes meant drive-through dinners, late evenings, and such. When you say things like "many reasons" and only point one reason out, you shouldn't be surprised when a counterpoint to that reason is mentioned.
Some people drive an hour each way to class- several people in my foster's basic obedience class drove an hour each way. Some people take Saturday classes and spend the whole day do that.

What I am trying to do is help you solve the problem you came here to ask advice on. Ask a question, get some opinions, take what advice you want to take. It isn't about making you feel good or feel bad or some sort of noble crap; it is just brainstorming and problem solving. Nothing more.
 

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Op, you posted a thread, did NOT wait for ANY replies, went out and got a dog, then came back for advice.
So.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
These are the questions I was referring to:





If I missed something, point it out, but I didn't see a response to any of these questions which were directed at trying to solve your problem, not to speak down to you in any way.

You have to see that we can only suggest solutions based on the information given. You say you are going to be working long hours, until you clarified your financial situation, there was no indication that you weren't working long hours in a lucrative field and had plenty of money to pay for a dog walker or doggie daycare. Etc. That is an example.


I would say that the majority of us here work full time or are full time students or both. Outside of work, I spend the vast majority of my free time devoted to my dog and my fosters. So doing classes meant drive-through dinners, late evenings, and such. When you say things like "many reasons" and only point one reason out, you shouldn't be surprised when a counterpoint to that reason is mentioned.
Some people drive an hour each way to class- several people in my foster's basic obedience class drove an hour each way. Some people take Saturday classes and spend the whole day do that.

What I am trying to do is help you solve the problem you came here to ask advice on. Ask a question, get some opinions, take what advice you want to take. It isn't about making you feel good or feel bad or some sort of noble crap; it is just brainstorming and problem solving. Nothing more.
Hm. Well, I guess I thought real hard about answering those questions, but didn't. Maybe I typed it all and then decided that it was so obvious there wasn't a solution in your minds that would work that it was pointless to bother. Alright, here are my answers:

I don't know if blood would have been drawn. I will say that they don't fight like that when I'm not there. It's apparently me that is the catalyst. I have taken up ALL other resources but water. I can't get rid of me, unfortunately.

I don't know what you would categorize as large, but I wouldn't call it large. It's not a postage stamp, though, and there is plenty of shade. And they have access to the deck, which wraps around two sides of my house on the second story, and is partially covered. They will not have access to A/C.

The new pup is supposedly an Australian Kelpie mix, and she is 6-8 months old.

Both dogs will get a 15-20 minute walk around the neighborhood every morning before we leave. Yep, we'll be walking in the dark most days! They will get attention and training when we get home, and we will be home a lot on weekends, too. I have considered providing a kiddie pool once or twice a week for them to play in while we're gone.

shallbe
 

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After reading through this thread, I really think you over reacted. No one here attacked you or called you bad mommy. They are just trying to give you the best help and advice for you situation, and because it isn't the greatest you are getting a lot of feedback.

I do think that you may be taking on more than you can handle. 15-20 minute walks is not really a good amount of exercise, I do think they will become bored and destructive, especially since they are left on their own for most of the day. Just being outside does not count as exercise, dogs left outside will usually either just lay around, or become destructive. Dogs cost a lot of money, money which you are not willing to spend from what I gather. There is a big difference in going to basic training classes and training at home.

I really think you should reconsider your decision in getting a second dog. You made a mistake, but you can still fix it. Your original dog is still a puppy and isn't getting the exercise it needs, so I don't see how a second dog is going to improve the situation. It will just be two dogs not getting the exercise it needs.

You also mentioned you are expecting more grandkids. At the very least, that means less money and time going to the dogs. Now, that is no judgement to you, it is just a realistic view of the situation.

I honestly think you should devote your time, money, and energy to the original dog. There is still time to make things right. The kelpie mix is very young and will have a great chance of going to a home that can provide everything she needs. Australian Kelpies need a LOT of exercise. A lot more than 20 minutes of walking a day.

This advice is coming from my heart, because I DO know how hard it is to give a pet up, but you need to put the puppy's best interest at heart.

I wish you the strength and courage you need to make the right decision, it is a hard one.
 
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