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Last night there was a person in the Town Park working a dog on some Schuthund stuff. Mostly send outs, heel, and lie down. Every command Was Shouted and I could hear what he said the entire length of the park.

Now, sometimes I harshen my voice to get a response from my dog, but this was shouted commands. Is that REALLY necessary? I have seen this b4 with Schutzhund people and wonder if there is some Requirement to Shout Commands.

I have found it far more effective to say less and speak in a lower tone (and you can go harsh and low). One of the most effective trainers I have ever seen says almost nothing to their dog and when they do speak it is low and level.. clearly heard but not at all loud.

The other thing I wonder about in Schutzhund is the use of German Commands in the US. Is it REQUIRED? I understand the reason is to make it more difficult for a "bad guy" to tell the dog what to do. It seems "affected" to me.. almost wanting attention (but the yelling was that too).

In my experience, my dog ignores commands from others unless I give her the word to obey them (and even then it is hit and miss because dogs don't generalize verbal commands between people very well). The language is not nearly as important as who is giving the cue?

Do German Schutzhund trainers give the dogs commands in English or another language??? If they are training a dog in Germany the case of changing language holds no water if they give commands in German.. since the 'bad guys' are going to speak German too? :rolleyes:

BTW, the dog was an unfixed male B&T GSD.. nice looking dog who was obedient.

I did not spend time watching the guy working as I was totally turned off by the shouting.
 

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The shouting is common, and a lot of the time, necessary. The out runs are quite large, and on windy days the dog CAN have trouble hearing the handler.

You can show in any language you want, but it must be the SAME language throughout the routine. You cannot use German for obedience and English for protection.
 

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For the outruns, can you use a hand signal or a whistle or would that be the same as using "the same language?" The trainer I was referring to trains Herding Border Collies. These dogs work in the wind and often out of sight of the handler. The tone of this man's voice is amazing and he also uses a whistle.. but that is not Schutzhund.

BTW this guy was using English for Obedience. He shouted "HEEL" at the dog when the dog was right in front of him in a "Plotts." (I probably spelled that wrong).

And, do you know if it is common for German Handlers in Germany to use a different language on their dog?

I am toying with the idea of learning about this sport and about French Ring, but geeze I really hate to shout at my dog unless it is necessary!

PS (and OT) Didn't you just go to a show in IL? How did you do? Any "additions" to your Pack???? :)
 

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Wow, I don't know if I would encourage someone to work on Schutzhund in a public park. Seems like it could easily perpetrate an already poor image of the breed, to the uneducated park-visitor.
 

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Elana, I thought you might find this article interesting.

I have found this system has created a basis for communication with my dogs far beyond any system I have ever used. This system translated into obedience and protection work, as well. I have developed such an intense relationship with the dogs I have trained under this system that it seems, at times, we communicate telepathically. I give "commands" in whispers while others yell. An eye or head movement while heeling can put my dog into a left hand corner with me, causing her to actually back up to maintain her position.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Wow, I don't know if I would encourage someone to work on Schutzhund in a public park. Seems like it could easily perpetrate an already poor image of the breed, to the uneducated park-visitor.
There was no one decoying the dog. This was outruns, lie down, stay and heel work. Dog did not bark one single time and was focused.

Elana, I thought you might find this article interesting.
Thanks.
 

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It is common, and I hate it. I do not yell, myself. In fact, I competed in a fun trial where we came in second a couple of years ago when I was sick. I had NO voice, my commands in the protection routine were whispered to my dog. He heard me just fine. Then again, he is well trained, and I do not train yelling.

I think the idea is, you'll have more control. Or people just do it because other people do, and they learn from them. The man I learned from in the beginning did not yell.

As far as the language, what you'll find is this. In Germany, they train the dogs in German. Here in the USA, we copy Germany. We use German sounding kennel names, German commands, etc. Honestly, I would switch, but my brain is now hard-wired to use German. The rule books says "in the handlers native language". You're also not supposed to switch.

My stand command is "Back" and I lost points once from a judge who said "never heard that command before, it's faulty."
 

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I think another reason people yell is because they're stressed. Lots of handlers actually sound ANGRY (look up Hawk Eichenluft...his owner is a fantastic handler, breeder, and nice woman, but she sounds a bit harsh in the commands)

And the word you're looking for, Elana, is platz :)

PS (and OT) Didn't you just go to a show in IL? How did you do? Any "additions" to your Pack????
Haven't been to IL yet. Couple of weeks
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the replies.

The more I learn about the German Shepherd and (now) the Belgian Malinois, the more I like the breed. I enjoy the hard work of training and would like to expand my horizons and do things I can do NOW.

My last dog was all East German bred and I just LOVED her serious attitude. She had to Features that your talk about Xeph.. Friendly but aloof with strangers and 100% loyal to me.

I am in the learning process now. I want to learn a LOT more and, perhaps when I am retired, look at being ready to seriously title a couple of dogs with the idea of breeding.

I might NEVER breed a dog.. but I want the foundation and knowledge so that if I want to my efforst will be an enhancement to the breed. I take all of the input from the responsible GSD people that I can get.

Schutzhund, as originally designed, is a very deamanding thing to ask a dog to do. Any dog that can do search and rescue PLUS attack type work has to be an exceptional animal.. with obedience as the foundation for everything.

I am very thankful for the insight and any way to better train these truly wonderful dogs.

Xeph.. I especially admire and respect your dogs and your ongoing efforts with them. I truly appreciate the time and thought you put into this forum and to your answers on here. I have learned a lot from you. Someday I hope to go to a dog show and see you there collecting ribbons and awards! :)

4 is company.. That link you gave is really awesome. I started working Atka with more precision tonight and with more precise body language signals from me when I ask for things. We got in some right side heeling tonight that was perfect.. and then some left side heeling that had real duration. By making my body language consistant, my dog is consistant too.

This is all good "stuff!"

PS: Xeph I clicked yoru dragons....
 
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