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Discussion Starter #1
I have been supplementing Ilya and Lola's diet with raw meats as training treats. So far they both have done very well on beef and chicken. This week, I tried salmon. I cut the fatty part near the belly into tiny training pieces as well as the skin (with scales).

Well, Ilya had the runs in the middle of the night :( a few hours after giving him salmon. He had regualr BMs afterwards. Lola, no problem. I guess this is a good indicator that there wasn't anything wrong with the salmon. Could it just mean Ilya can't tollerate salmon?

I was hoping salmon would be a good supplement for him and I've heard many husky owners who raw feed, fed their huskies a lot of salmon.

I'm wondering if I should try it again before I call it intollerance? Is there a certain amount of time sensitive stomachs get used to different foods?
 

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Never feed raw salmon or trout from the Pacific Northwest. There is a parasite that only affects dogs and can be fatal.
 

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Some dogs can't tolerate certain things very well. I'd try it again with just a few portions and do it in the daytime so, if he does get the runs, at least it's daytime! :)

If she purchased the salmon or trout from a grocery store fit for human consumption, I'm sure it was fine.

Even if the salmon was fit for human consumption, purchased in a grocery store or anywhere else for that matter, if it was PNW Salmon, it should not be fed raw.

As Briteday said:

Never feed raw salmon or trout from the Pacific Northwest. There is a parasite that only affects dogs and can be fatal.
 

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I was finding the wrong thing when I searched.

Here is the correct information and, as said above, do NOT feed this to dogs:

Trematode* Guidelines

Species*

Canine
Paragonimus kellicotti
Alaria spp.
Nanophyetus salmincola
Heterobilharzia americana

Feline
Paragonimus kellicotti
Alaria spp.
Nanophyetus salmincola
Platynosomum fastosum

*Trematodes are commonly referred to as “flukes.”

Nanophyetus salmincola

Definitions:
1. A digenetic fish-borne fluke (family Nanophyetidae) of dogs and other fish-eating mammals; the vector of Neorickettsia helmintheca, the agent of salmon poisoning.
Overview of Life Cycle
Trematodes of dogs and cats have indirect life cycles that require one or two intermediate hosts to reach the infective stage.

A representative trematode life cycle is that of P. kellicotti. Dogs and cats infected with adult P. kellicotti shed eggs in their feces. The eggs hatch in water, and a ciliated form, the miracidium, emerges. The miracidium penetrates its first intermediate host, a snail, where it develops to the cercarial stage. The cercaria then leaves the snail and infects the second intermediate host, a crayfish, where it develops to the infective metacercarial form. Dogs and cats become infected with P. kellicotti when they ingest these metacercariae.

Disease

Disease in dogs and cats due to infection with trematodes varies and depends upon the species of trematode involved and the organs and organ systems affected.

Paragonimus kellicotti adults develop in cysts in the lung of both dogs and cats; animals infected with P. kellicotti may be asymptomatic or can present with a variety of respiratory signs, including coughing, dyspnea, pneumothorax, bronchiectasis, and hemoptysis.

Alaria spp. adults develop in the small intestine and are not usually associated with intestinal illness. However, migration of immature Alaria through the lungs may result in pulmonary hemorrhage and subsequent respiratory compromise.

Nanophyetus salmincola adults are found in the small intestine of both dogs and cats. Infection with N. salmincola alone is not associated with clinical disease, but this fluke serves as the vector of Neorickettsia helminthoeca, the causative agent of salmon poisoining, a virulent canine disease in the Pacific Northwest.

Heterobilharzia americana adults present in the mesenteric and hepatic veins, where they produce eggs that migrate directly across the intestinal wall to the lumen, a process that induces granulomatous inflammation. Clinical signs in infected dogs include diarrhea (which may be blood-tinged), vomiting, weight loss, lethargy, and occasionally, hemoperitoneum.

Platynosomum fastosum is a liver fluke of cats in Florida, other areas of the southeastern United States, and Hawaii. Chronic infection with Pla. fastosum leads to development of enlarged bile ducts and gall bladder, biliary epithelial hyperplasia, and ultimately, liver failure.

Host Associations and Transmission Between Hosts
Trematode infections are acquired by consumption of intermediate or paratenic hosts (or, in the case of H. americana, by direct skin penetration of cercariae) and are not directly transmitted between dogs and cats.

Both dogs and cats are susceptible to infection with P. kellicotti following ingestion of crayfish or paratenic hosts infected with metacercariae.

Alaria spp. infections are acquired by dogs and cats via ingestion of a wide variety of intermediate or paratenic hosts (particularly frogs and snakes) that harbor immature flukes
Nanophyetus salmincola metacercariae are present in the muscle of salmonid fish; dogs and cats are infected upon ingestion of uncooked fish.

Dogs are infected with H. americana when cercariae in fresh water directly penetrate their skin.
Platynosomum fastosum metacercariae are usually transmitted to cats via predation on lizards or other reptiles. The disease caused by this trematode in cats is commonly referred to as “lizard poisoning.”

Site of Infection and Pathogenesis
Paragonimus kellicotti is found in cysts in the lung. Dogs and cats may tolerate a low number of intact cysts, but in heavy infections or when cysts rupture, severe disease may result due to pulmonary hemorrhage, pneumothorax, and/or granulomatous pneumonia.

Adults of Alaria are present in the small intestine of infected dogs and cats. Immature Alaria migrate through the lungs prior to being swallowed and developing into adult flukes in the small intestine. When infection levels are high, pulmonary damage and hemorrhage may lead to clinical disease.
Adults of N. salmincola are found in the small intestine of dogs and cats. This trematode does not cause disease to the infected animal directly but can serve as the vector of Neo. helminthoeca, a rickettsia that causes lymphadenopathy, diarrhea, and high fever in dogs. Disease caused by Neo. helminthoeca is referred to as “salmon poisoining” because dogs acquire infection by ingestion of raw salmonid fish. Mortality rates are high in the absence of antibiotic treatment.

Heterobilharzia americana adults are present in the mesenteric and hepatic veins of infected dogs. The eggs produced by each adult pair migrate directly through the wall of the intestine to exit the infected dog with the feces. The eggs, which induce a pronounced inflammatory response with fibrosis, may also be carried in the circulation throughout the body, resulting in the development of disseminated visceral granulomata.

Platynosomum fastosum infects the bile ducts and pancreatic ducts of cats, inducing epithelial hyperplasia. With chronic infections, the biliary hyperplasia can result in fibrosis, cholestasis, and hepatic failure. In cats presenting with late-stage clinical disease, jaundice, weight loss, and vomiting may be seen. Treatment of these cats is often unrewarding; trematode infections are difficult to clear, and liver pathology and associated disease persists or worsens following death of the flukes.

Diagnosis
Trematode eggs are less buoyant than those of nematodes or protozoa; unless high-density sucrose flotation is used, diagnosis of infection by fecal examination requires concentrating the ova present in feces by sedimentation rather than flotation.

Once identified in fecal sediment by the characteristic opercula, eggs of the different trematode species can be further differentiated by morphologic characteristics, including size.
Pulmonary cysts may be evident on thoracic radiographs of dogs and cats infected with P. kellicotti. Characteristic eggs may be recovered on transtracheal wash.

Abdominal ultrasound can be useful in locating the dilated bile ducts associated with Platynosomum fastosum infection and, in some cases, allows visualization of the flukes themselves. Liver biopsy also may aid in the diagnosis of Platynosomum, particularly in cases where infection has resulted in severe biliary hyperplasia and subsequent cholestasis.

Control and Prevention
Prevention of predation and scavenging activity by confining dogs on a leash or in a fenced yard and keeping cats indoors will limit the opportunity for dogs and cats to acquire infection with trematodes.

To avoid Heterobilharzia infection, dogs should not have contact with water through such activities as swimming in canals or ponds.

Public Health Considerations
Dogs and cats infected with trematodes do not pose a direct zoonotic infection risk to people. However, people can acquire infection with N. salmincola following ingestion of metacercariae in undercooked fish. A case of fatal disease associated with systemic infection with Alaria larvae and several cases of ocular infection have been reported following ingestion of undercooked frogs legs. Along with various avian schistosomes, Heterobilharzia cercariae from snails have been incriminated in causing dermatitis in humans (“swimmer’s itch”) following skin penetration.
 

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So they sell us salmon that has parasites in it??? These parasites don't affect people?????
Exactly right! The parasites only affect dogs.

From everything I read, salmon sold in GROCERY STORES fit for human consumption does NOT have the parasite in it because it can hurt people, too. Therefore, far as I'm concerned, you can feed any salmon that comes from a grocery store.l

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/clientED/salmon.aspx

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/must_cook_salmon_for_dogs.htm

Canned fish with bones: Sardines (preferably packed in water rather than oil), Jack Mackerel and Pink Salmon: Full of beneficial omega-3 fatty acids and provides trace minerals. Bones are cooked to softness and are safe to feed (no need to add calcium to this food, since the bones supply it). Never feed raw salmon or trout from the Pacific Northwest (California to Alaska), as it may contain a parasite that can be fatal to dogs. I don't recommend feeding much tuna, as it is more likely to be contaminated with mercury, and does not include bones, which are nutritious. Sardines can be used to replace fish oil supplements; one small sardine has over 100 mg of the omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA.
The above is quoted from Dogaware.com


Pacific salmonids carry a toxic parasite that can make dogs very sick. Freeze fresh raw salmon, steelhead, trout, and other salmonids for at least 24 hours before feeding to your dog; this thoroughly kills the parasite. Cooked salmon (or canned) is perfectly okay to feed. Fish is the only food that can also be fed cooked, as the bones remain soft and the meat keeps much of its integrity. When feeding whole fresh fish (especially fish that you just caught from a lake!), it might be worthwhile to cut open the belly and check for hooks swallowed into the stomach as well as hooks in the throat or mouth. If the fish has any sharp spines (like catfish or the dorsal fin on bass), you should cut them off before feeding the fish to the dog. Avoid feeding too much carp, smelt, herring, and catfish, since these fish contain an enzyme that binds Thiamin, or Vitamin B1. They make an excellent addition to any raw diet as long as they aren't the bulk of the diet (i.e. do not feed it every day!).
The above is quoted from Rawfed.com

I don't know what you're reading but there are quite a few websites out there and they all say the same thing.
 

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More information:

Salmon Poisoning Disease is a potentially fatal condition seen in dogs that eat certain types of raw fish. Salmon (salmonid fish) and other anadromous fish (fish that swim upstream to breed) can be infected with a parasite called Nanophyetus salmincola. Overall, the parasite is relatively harmless. The danger occurs when the parasite itself is infected with a rickettsial organism called Neorickettsia helminthoeca. It’s this microorganism that causes salmon poisoning.

“Salmon poisoning occurs most commonly west of the Cascade mountain range,” says Dr. Bill Foreyt, a veterinary parasitologist at Washington State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. He adds, “Canids (dogs) are the only species susceptible to salmon poisoning. That’s why cats, raccoons and bears eat raw fish regularly with out consequence.”

Generally clinical signs appear within six days of a dog eating an infected fish.

Common symptoms of salmon poisoning include:
vomiting
lack of appetite
fever
diarrhea
weakness
swollen lymph nodes
dehydration

If untreated, death usually occurs within fourteen days of eating the infected fish. Ninety percent of dogs showing symptoms die if they are not treated.

Thankfully, salmon poisoning is treatable if it’s caught in time. A key to its diagnosis is telling your veterinarian that your dog ate raw fish.

If you have a dog that wanders or raids trashcans and you are unsure of what it’s eaten, consider the possibility of salmon poisoning. Salmon poisoning can be diagnosed with a fecal sample or a needle sample of a swollen lymph node. Detecting the parasite’s eggs as they are shed in the feces confirms its presence. The rickettsial organism can be detected in a needle sample from a swollen lymph node. The combination of symptoms, and the presence of parasite eggs or the rickettsial organisms, are enough to justify treatment.

Given the severity of the condition, treatment is relatively simple. Your veterinarian will prescribe an antibiotic and a “wormer”. The antibiotic kills the rickettsial organisms that cause the illness, and the wormer kills the parasite. If the dog is dehydrated, intravenous fluid are given. Once treatment has been started, most dogs show dramatic improvement within two days.

This Pet Health Topic was written by Sarah Hoggan, Washington State University, Class of 2001.
 

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Did you read your own information you gave?????



So once it's been frozen then thawed, it's perfectly safe to feed it raw. All wild fish needs to be frozen before it's fed to dogs. That's normal procedure when feeding raw.
Yes of course I read it. You did not mention this in your post either... so someone new to feeding raw may not realize there are precautions.
 

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So according to a biologist who has studied this parasite, this parasite CANNOT AFFECT DOGS OR PEOPLE so why do so many think it can?

Sounds like rumors and old wive's tales to me.

Information directly from a scientist's report has much more credibility to me than a website generalizing information.
Your opinion and you're entitled to it. Good Luck to you.
 

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A scientist's opinion has a LOT more validity than a bunch of posts on a website. After all, how many websites can you find that state human food is BAD for dogs? Tons. Doesn't make it right, does it?

I'll believe the scientists. I'm sure they're much more educated and able to give opinions than those of us on a forum.[/QUOTE

Opinions ~ everybody has one.

Where my dogs are concerned, I prefer to err on the side of caution. It only takes a few minutes to broil a piece of fish.

Your quote states 'no human health implications'. We're talking about dogs here.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Never feed raw salmon or trout from the Pacific Northwest. There is a parasite that only affects dogs and can be fatal.
I've heard of this too and haven't looked into it in great detail though.

Thanks Renoman and Myminipins..... I think it is good info to look into :)


FWIW... the salmon was flown in by the grocer from a fish farm in Chile. It was quite tasty :)
 

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The false premise is the initial search of "salmon disease." The disease we're talking about does not affect salmons, or humans. Instead you need to do a search on "salmon poisoning dogs" and you will see all about this organism that is only found in salmon and trout from the PNW.

Until you do the search please do not feed any raw salmon or trout from the PNW.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you brightday!

Has anyone here introduced different types of fish to their pets? I may try the salmon again later this week. There was a sale last weekend and I froze a lot of pieces already. If he shows any upset again, I'll just stick to the chicken, beef, and lamb. As far as taste, he loved salmon.
 
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