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Discussion Starter #1
Right now Hadley is getting Nutro Natural Choice Lamb & Brown Rice because I had 20 lbs of it left :) Yes it's an adult food. It is 21% protein.

I'm considering switching her to raw (Sadie and the cats eat prey-model). However this would be much more protein. I know she is not a large breed, so does it not matter how much protein she has while growing? If I don't switch her to raw, I'd like to use one of the puppy foods from Orijen or Taste of the Wild or Evo. But these are also very high protein.

For a large breed puppy like a great dane, what percentage protein would you feed as a puppy? What about a teeny puppy (yorkie, etc)? If it's raw instead of dry kibble does it matter that the protein is more?
 

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I don't claim to know anything about large breed puppies and feeding raw. I would suggest that those owners work closely with someone who has experience in that area. But that issue is mainly related to keeping the muscle and bone growth in synchony, thus not too much protein to overload immaturebones. But how much is too much??? I don't know.

For other dogs I don't think too much protein is a problem. And excess protein is excreted by the kidneys. High levels of protein will not cause any kidney problems. But in a dog with pre-existing kidney problems, a raw diet could make things worse.
 

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I would like to know the answer to this as well.

Sams aren't a giant breed, but they're not really all that medium sized, either.

One of the breeders I went to only feeds RAW and has no problems at all. Calcium ratios are more important then protien ratios, IMHO, although you want a CAREFUL balance so that your pup's growth is slow.

I think personally that I'm not going to feed RAW until my pup is fully grown. Until that point, I'm going to feed a good kibble.
 

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It is the calcium level that matters, not the protein level. Pups cannot excrete excess calcium as well as adult dogs. It is very, very easy to overfeed bone on raw. Max should be getting *1* ounce of bone a day. That is the amount in *2* ounces of chicken back or *3* ounces of chicken wing. It scares me the way some raw feeders give so much bone. Dogs are sure adaptable, mostly they do just fine anyway!

Raw isn't as high in protein as one would think. It is high in fat though. Carbs are mostly gone and fat is the replacement! Max only gets 50 grams of protein a day, that is less than 2 grams per pound body weight and about 60% of his calories are from fat this month. Sassy is getting just about the same grams per pound but more calories as she is fighting severe illness. Oh, these are old dogs, not sure how much protein per pound pups need.

With kidney disease it is the phosphorus in the bone and meat that is the problem, not the protein. Sassy is playing catch up. She is much more vigorous with more protein. The phosphorus gives her a tummy ache.
 

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this thread is very interesting. i am hoping to get a puppy soon-ish and i was thinking i would go straight to raw for him. i don't know now... i am looking forward to learning more about puppies and raw :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So the consensus seems to be that raw is safe for puppies even large breeds, because the protien is not too high, and the balance of bone to meat is what is important.
 

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They are different models of feeding raw. There is the prey model which is based on what dogs would eat in the wild. I think, but could be wrong, but the prey model diet doesn't include fruits or veggies. Whereas a BARF diet would include fruits and veggies. I'm wondering if you fed your puppy a BARF diet, the fruits and veggies would help balance things out.

It seems, from what I've read anyway, that with a raw diet, the goal is to achieve balance over time, as opposed to balance with every meal. It's important to feed the right amount of meat, including organ and muscle meat and bone but also to vary the protein sources to achieve this balance over time. That is my understanding anyway. I took the easy, more expensive way out and feed premade raw based on the BARF diet. However, the risk with the premade raw diets, as I've been finding out in the past few weeks, is that they can be out of balance too.

I don't think feeding raw to your puppy would be a bad thing; it's more an issue of feeding the right proportions of meat, organ and muscle and bone. And you don't want to overfeed your puppy either, which will cause extra stress on his physical structure before his growth plates close.

Kathyy, how do you plan your dog's diet so that you know exactly how many calories they will get from protein, carbs and fat every month? That is impressive. And, may I ask, how can you give Sassy more protein without giving her more phosphorus?
 

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Egg whites! Super low phosphorus and good quallity protein.

I use Nutritiondata.com to check on the dogs nutrition. It doesn't include the bone in meat though. I make up a recipe for each dog including everything they ever get to eat and just modify the amount of each food, ie .01 ounces of turkey breast if that isn't on the menu this month and 4 ounces of beef tongue if that is being served up. I use a digital scale so I give Sassy exactly what she needs. Max gets his weighed as he is a bit 'fluffy'.
 

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Egg whites! Super low phosphorus and good quallity protein.

I use Nutritiondata.com to check on the dogs nutrition. It doesn't include the bone in meat though. I make up a recipe for each dog including everything they ever get to eat and just modify the amount of each food, ie .01 ounces of turkey breast if that isn't on the menu this month and 4 ounces of beef tongue if that is being served up. I use a digital scale so I give Sassy exactly what she needs. Max gets his weighed as he is a bit 'fluffy'.
Cool! Thanks for the info! I didn't know that but that helps me a lot!
 

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Well, if you want to go strictly by how wild dogs live, puppies in the wild are weaned directly onto regurgitated raw meat. That's quite a bit of protein. So theoretically, they should be able to handle it, as long as you balance it properly.
 
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