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Discussion Starter #1
So we've decided not to do premade raw, I've read conflicting opinons on the internet, bought a great book called "Dr. Pitcairn's complete guide to natural health for dogs and cats". I'm confused, please help me

Some diets are simply raw bones and meat, no suppliments, no veggies, no grains?

Others are raw meat, but no bones, with tons of suppliments (this and that of things I've never heard of and unsure where to get them) with little veggies and little grain.

Raw meat, suppliments, veggies, no grain

which is it? Is bones every day, or no? Where do I get these suppliments, things like lecithin or Vitamin A/Vitamin E suppliments, or ground bone meal ?? Some meats have to be cooked, right? (pork, fish, wild game) so should that be fed less? Any ideas where to find liver, kidneys, hearts, organ meat in general? Every place I have been to doesn't sell it or can't order it. There aren't any little shops in the area.

I am trying to get in contact with raw feeders in the area but none are close to me on this side of Massachusetts, they all seem to be several hours away. How do I know if what I'm feeding is nutritionally correct, I'm a little worried about hurting my dogs health or him losing his current coat luster.
 

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I feed the prey model, which is meat only (bones, meat, organs). And I don't cook any of it. The only supplements I'm using are eggs twice a week and fish oil every day.

It doesn't matter if you feed bones every day as long as the ratio is about right over time. Think of dogs in the wild or wolves. They don't go around grazing, eating supplements or worrying about their ratios. :)

From what I have read, there are 2 different ratios. 80-10-10 (80% muscle meat, 10% bone and 10% organs). I do 50-45-5 (50% RMB, 45% muscle meat, 5% organs)

RMB - meat with bones
muscle meat - meat without bones

The reason I chose 50-45-5 is that it's pretty hard to weigh a bone that's wrapped in meat. So, if you feed meat with bones as half their diet, it's easier (for me) to make sure they're not getting too much bones.

I have seen (and bought) these organs in the grocery store:
Liver (Chicken or Beef)
Kidney
Sweetbreads

I expect to find Spleen, Lung and Pancreas when I make more contacts with hunters and ranchers in my area.

My dogs' coats have gotten a lot shinier and softer with raw.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
so you don't feed veggies or grains at all or just occasionally as a treat?

And do you give them a digestive enzyme or yogurt or anything like that, even in the beginning? A lot of the raw recipes I find are very complicated and simply over the top.

What about chicken backs, are those bad? They sell them at whole foods and are only .99/lbs, should I change meats around, how often?

should fish/pork/wild game be cooked to kill possible parasites? or will they die if you freeze the meat?


by the way I apperciate you answering me, I am just so confused. :)
 

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I did feed them yogurt and pumpkin the first week. About 2 T per day. And if I'm making a salad, I'll give them a bit of carrot or red pepper because they like the taste, but it's not part of their diet. I've thought about a digestive enzyme, but mine made the transition without incident. Some dogs are just fine. But if you have trouble, you probably should give an enzyme. I don't give any veggies or grains. Dogs are carnivores, not omnivores.

I use Natural Balance food roll for training treats.

My "recipe" has been very simple. Chicken. For 2 weeks. Whole chicken, thighs, legs, breasts, necks... That's so they get used to one meat before intruducing another meat. Beef will be next. And after a week or so on each meat, I'll add a meat (pork, turkey, fish) and keep the chicken. An example of a weekly menu might be chicken on M-W-F, Pork or beef on T-Th, and fish, rabbit, venison, or whatever on S-S. Something like that. So they're getting a variety all the time.

I do feed backs. They're bony, so you'll want to add some meat to the meal or the day. But the backs are good for teeth cleaning.

I was freaked out about bones at first and ground ALL of their meat and bones, but I'm calming down about that now and only grinding the leg and thigh bones. :D I cut up 4 whole chickens this morning and ground the thigh and leg bones and mixed it all up for several days' meals.

I will be sticking with canned fish since I can't get fresh fish at a reasonable price (live in the desert), but the only one I'd be concerned about is raw pacific NW salmon. Dogs can get poisoned from that. Canned mackerel, salmon and sardines are good. (in water, not oil)


Foods to avoid in Raw Diet


I will be feeding pork, but not pork bones (except the neck - maybe) The weight bearing bones of large animals are too hard.

I give my dogs beef knuckle bones, but only to chew the meat off, not to eat. They're too hard. I think rib bones are too hard, too, but some people feed them. (I'm paranoid and on the better-safe-than-sorry end of the scale.)

So, the vast majority of bones my dogs will be eating will be with their chicken parts.

A good read

Freezing pork for 3 weeks will kill trichinosis
and a healthy dog with a healthy immune system will knock down the other bacteria in raw meat. One exception is a very rare condition in wild rabbits called Tularemia. Freezing will not kill that. If the liver of the wild rabbit is spotted, the rabbit should be discarded. But it's very rare. I'm looking into boosting my dogs' immune systems, but haven't done much research on that.

Just to be clear, I'm new to raw, but did quite a bit of research before changing over 2 weeks ago.
 

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So we've decided not to do premade raw, I've read conflicting opinons on the internet, bought a great book called "Dr. Pitcairn's complete guide to natural health for dogs and cats". I'm confused, please help me

Some diets are simply raw bones and meat, no suppliments, no veggies, no grains?

Others are raw meat, but no bones, with tons of suppliments (this and that of things I've never heard of and unsure where to get them) with little veggies and little grain.

Raw meat, suppliments, veggies, no grain

which is it?
I have been feeding raw for 4 years after doing 6 months of research and it helps that I am a medical biochemist...not so much "Greek" to me.

I chose to focus on 80 % meat, 10% bone, 10% organ. I don't agonize the bone to meat ratio too much because you can watch the dog's stool to determine if the mix is correct. And you just get a feel for it over time. If the stool is runny or really dark...too much meat. If the stool is chalky (I mean "white!)...too much bone. If the stool is firm, brown and doesn't stick to the dog's coat...good.

I don't choose to feed carbs at all since dogs don't need them. In humans we ingest carbs for a source of energy. Dogs can manufacture all of their energy from fat. So I also don't cut off all of the fat from their meat as I would for my human family...and even tend to use cheaper, fattier cuts for the dogs. Also on the note of fruits / vegetable (any plant material) dogs do not possess the enzyme cellulAse to break down plant cell walls made from cellulOse. So unless you pulverize or blenderize the heck out of the stuff it is merely fiber in the diet.

Is bones every day, or no? Where do I get these suppliments, things like lecithin or Vitamin A/Vitamin E suppliments, or ground bone meal ?? Some meats have to be cooked, right? (pork, fish, wild game) so should that be fed less? Any ideas where to find liver, kidneys, hearts, organ meat in general? Every place I have been to doesn't sell it or can't order it. There aren't any little shops in the area.
Bones need to be fed every day or a calcium supplement given. Calcium (bones) and phosphorus (meat) must be fed in a ratio. I could look up the numbers for you. But if you are getting the stools that look correct then you are probably within the range. Also, if you are feeding a boneless meat (like when you get a fantastic deal at the grocery on ground beef or something) then the easiest way to supplement is 1/2 teaspoon of FINELY ground eggshell to 1 pound of meat. I use my coffee bean grinder for this and it works wonderfully. I often supplement because I have small breeds and many bones are simply too large for them, other than anything from a chicken. They can also handle some small short ribs from pork or beef. But I stay away from weight bearing bones of larger animals...bad for chipping teeth. They get a long rib one (the type we bbq) once per week...they go out on the patio and gnaw all of the meat off then they can have the "cleaned" bones in the house for a few days as recreational chews. Same with a shoulder blade bone found in pork picnic roasts (at least that's what they're called on the West Coast).

Supplements...the only things I use, and it is more to help add some variety and I guess cover all of the bases...Grizzly Salmon Oil (can be bought at most pet food stores or order from JeffersPet.com or use fish oil capsules which can be bought cheaply at Costco), eggs 1-2 times per week (we have our own chickens so it's convenient, good source of cholesterol), I found some "dry" E capsules at the vitamin store so I give maybe one per dog per week. I buy some canned tripe for them at the pet store, I think it is Wellness brand. But that's more for variety...go slow, just a spoonful will do as it is very rich.

Nothing needs to be cooked. I do freeze raw pork as I do for my human family as well. But honestly, there have only been VERY RARE cases of trich in the US. I don't imagine you are sourcing any pork from iffy places if you live in MA. So really, you don't need to worry. If you make contact with someone who is willing to give you venison or other wild game meat I would freeze it for one month before feeding...parasites and stuff. If you catch or score someone who gives you fresh fish just be sure to slit the gut open and check for lead sinkers, fishing line, or hooks. Never ever feed Pacific salmon or trout.

As far as organ meat... I feed a lot of chicken organs because I can readily find it at the regular grocery. The chicken livers and packages of gizzards are usually right in the refrigerator cases next to the chickens and various parts. However, I have never seen them at places like Whole Foods. Try a regular grocery store. At our regular grocery I can find pork and beef heart, pork and beef kidneys, all kinds of chicken stuff. Ask the meat department guy if you don't see it. And ifyou can find someone who hunts, ask them to bag and chill the organs for you. And as mentioned before, be wary of wild game if the organs are friable (fall apart when you touch them), unusually mushy, or spotty...signs of an unhealthy animal. If regular groceries don't have the organ stuff try some ethnic markets like Hispanic or Asian. Most will also carry things like chicken feet which are great treats with lots of chondroitin for joint health.

How I handle measuring organs and general feeding guidelines...My animals get one meal every day of whole cut up chicken parts. Chicken is about as close to a perfect meal (calcium, phosophorus, complete balanced minerals and vitamins) as you can ask for...if you feed the ENTIRE bird over time. Think that dark meat, white meat, different fatty areas, different bones all have different things to offer such as trace minerals and vitamins, varying levels of fat, etc. I don't advise buying a big bag of leg quarters or a case of chicken backs and doing that as a sole source of meals. Variety will keep the diet balanced, once your dog has made the entire conversion to raw. Don't get hung up on this stuff for the first few months while the dog is acclimating...more on that later. So I buy whole chickens on sale and freeze them, take out about one per week, use kitchen shears to cut off and weight one meal per day (all 4 animals get a chicken meal each day), use up as the week goes on. I have four ~10 pound animals so one meal for all of them is about 5 oz per day total, 10 oz total for the entire day. If you have a larger dog you will need to figure out 2-3% of appropriate body weight and divide into two meals per day. I bought a digital postal scale at Costco that weighs up to 5 pounds. Because I have small animals and I didn't really know what an "ounce" of meat looked like in the beginning I weigh each meal for them.

Anyway, the second meal of the day is usually a boneless (calcium supplemented) meat meal. I find it easier to give the organs with the chicken meal. So therefore, I figure the entire day's 10% into the chicken meal which ends up to be 20% of the chicken meal alone.

I am trying to get in contact with raw feeders in the area but none are close to me on this side of Massachusetts, they all seem to be several hours away. How do I know if what I'm feeding is nutritionally correct, I'm a little worried about hurting my dogs health or him losing his current coat luster.
I don't think you need something locally other than finding resources for your meat. Although local raw feeders may be able to direct you to a meat co-op where your products would be much cheaper especially if you are feeding a large dog and need lots of meat. There are good raw feeding groups on Yahoo to ask questions. And if it really matters to you ask your vet to do a simple blood chemistry panel on your dog before you start feeding raw and then do one every 6-12 months to be sure that kidneys, liver, heart are all functioning properly. You will know by how your dog looks and acts if everything is going right.

Personally, I like to start with whole chickens for the first 2-4 weeks, gradually adding in chicken organs until the dog has stable gi function (expect some vomiting / stool issues until the dog's gut has a chance to form the different digestive enzymes for processing raw food in the gut). Then keep one meal per day as your chicken meal (which by now you know is ok with your dog) and introduce no more than one new species of meat each week. I would go to either turkey or pork, then beef, fish, whatever. But by allowing only one new meat and its organs each week you can rule in/out what might not be working for your dog. I have one that will explode out the back end if she even comes close to lamb. And none of the animals in my house will eat turkey from the grocery. I suspect because they inject the turkeys with some sort of salty broth. So you will want to tread slowly when introducing new species. And watch the chickens that you buy. My dogs, as mentioned, don't like anything that has added "broth" (I think it is mostly salt water). Read the fine print ont he chicken packages. I don't think you have to do completely organic (unless you can afford it and want to) but I don't think 10-15% added "broth" (salt) is good for dogs or humans for that matter. In my area Foster Farms is a clean brand, where as Tyson is highly enhanced.

Good luck and keep asking questions. There are a ton of good websites in a sticky at the top of the food forum. It took me 6 months to develop a meal plan, find resources ( I covered every grocery store, ethnic market, independent butcher store within 20 miles), figure out freezer storage space, etc before I actually started to feed raw.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thank you so much for your answers, I have been reading all the stickys up top and doing my own research. I talked to my vet and he laughed, saying that although he does a raw diet for insurance purposes he doesn't suggest raw. (lets face it, someone who doesn't do their research or just feeds table scraps can make their dog very sick... which = sued) He breeds boxers and I guess he gets this premade stuff, but he buys about 200lbs at a time so its much more reasonable then what I've seen. (the ones at local stores for premade is about $5-$7/lbs yikes!)

I have already found a farmer in local CT who will give me a left over deer, its been in the freezer for about 6 months and two wild turkeys that has been in the freezer for about 3 months, those are still good, right? They are butchering a cow in a few weeks and offered me the head, lower legs, organs, meat they don't want. I'm not sure if I could use the legs or head, I don't know what to do with it @[email protected] lmao Organs would be great though, which ones shouldn't I use, how would I clean them/prepare them? I figure if I can feed my dog for free then I'm in good shape ;) I was paying $2/lbs for kibble so if we can get under that I'll be happy.

added- oh and they make cheese and they offered me "whey"? She said its really good for dogs. Anything they don't want they've offered me, and if its for free its for me, we're going down to BJs to buy a big freezer :) Very excited to finally be able to do this right ^.^

Do you plan your meals around your dogs or just buy meat for your dogs? I was thinking since I generally buy my meat on sale and eat it within a week why not plan that around whats on sale/what I eat, make one shopping trip :p
 

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There are a so many ways to feed raw...it's kinds like the old dog training saying: The only thing you can get two dog trainers to agree on is that the third trainer is doing it all wrong. Same applies to raw feeding.

Dogs are amazingly adaptable animals and can live and thrive on a variety of diets and foods. That said, here's what works for us and our dogs - 18 retired racing greyhounds of all ages (3-13) and some of whom are performance dogs (lure coursing).

We feed RMBs for breakfast every morning. We are lucky to get really nice, meaty chicken frames from a local processor. That's our staple RMB, though we occasionally switch it up with rabbit (whole dressed rabbit whacked into 2-3 parts depending on the size) or turkey necks.

Offal is mixed in 3 times a week (or so)...I guess it works out to about 10-15%. the frames have offal in them as well, so we don't need to add to it too much. I just try to find some different kinds of offal than chicken parts.

We choose to do a veggie mash with apple cider vinegar mixed in with their dinner of muscle meat (lean beef or beef/tripe/heart). They don't get much veg...about 1/4 cup or so 4-6 days a week. Do dogs NEED veggies...probably not. Our dogs do better on them...it helps with the poop w/o having to increase the meat (weight gain). Plus, they really like it and I'm a big believer in ACV. We also do farm fresh eggs for them a couple times a week and I reserve the egg shells, dry them, grind them and add the powder into the veggie mash.

And whenever I see something interesting at the store for a good price, we'll throw it in ...pigs feet, tails or chicken feet. Random bits and bobbles that make things interesting.

We have an "average" bowl (calcualted for 60lb dog) that we mix and then the bigger dogs get a bit more and the smaller dogs get a bit less....all of our dogs are within the 50-70 lb range so not too much to adjust. We mostly just watch the poops and the energy level and the appearance of the dogs to make adjustments.

And, sometimes when I make too much pasta or we have left over "dog friendly" food from dinner, that'll get mixed in too. I do not believe dogs need any kind of grain, but they enjoy it and it's an occasional treat for them (we dont' eat a lot of pastas/grains either).

As for supplements...I guess the ACV we grind up with the veggies could be considered a supplement since it's a "processed" product. Otherwise, they get fish oil capsule every day and that's about it. Except for a joint supplement for seniors, I think supplements should be unnecessary.
 

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Great post, briteday! I'm still learning so it really helped me! Thanks!

I have already found a farmer in local CT who will give me a left over deer, its been in the freezer for about 6 months and two wild turkeys that has been in the freezer for about 3 months, those are still good, right?
Those are PERFECT! You're lucky! That's the kind of score every raw feeder dreams of! LOL

They are butchering a cow in a few weeks and offered me the head, lower legs, organs, meat they don't want. I'm not sure if I could use the legs or head, I don't know what to do with it
Some people would just give that head to the dogs and let them figure it out. Tongue is a great meat, although your friend may have removed it. The lower leg bones will contain marrow, which the dogs can lick out. The bones are too hard for chewing, though, so, supervise and remove when the marrow is gone.

Organs would be great though, which ones shouldn't I use, how would I clean them/prepare them?
I would probably rinse them, weigh them and hand them to the dog. The heart is a muscle meat, not an organ. I think I listed organs earlier. And if you can manage to get the tripe (the second stomach of the cow), that's the most nutritious food for a dog! But it's huge and stinky. If the butcher could cut it up for you, you'd be the envy of all raw feeders! :D

Do you plan your meals around your dogs or just buy meat for your dogs?
Our dogs' and our meals are totally separate.

I don't know about the whey, but I know people feed cottage cheese (curds and whey), so that might be good.
 

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I have already found a farmer in local CT who will give me a left over deer, its been in the freezer for about 6 months and two wild turkeys that has been in the freezer for about 3 months, those are still good, right?
Dogs don't know or care how long something has ben frozen. I've gotten stuff that's probably been frozen for 2-3 years from people cleaning out freezers...all good.

They are butchering a cow in a few weeks and offered me the head, lower legs, organs, meat they don't want. I'm not sure if I could use the legs or head, I don't know what to do with it @[email protected] lmao Organs would be great though, which ones shouldn't I use, how would I clean them/prepare them?
I would find a butcher shop so that they could cut up stuff for you and deal with the head and organs. When I have gotten stuff from ranchers here they basically just fill up 5 gallon buckets as they go along with the butchering. If you don't want to do the messy stuff yourself just take it to a butcher and ask them to cut it up in whatever sizes you want. And they can get the brains and tongue out of the head for you, cut and wrap. As for the legs, I've seen too many dogs at the vet's office with marrow bone "donuts" stuck on their muzzles. So I would have the butcher saw the legs lengthwise, then into 6" or so chunks. As for internal organs I would keep the tripe (intestines), spleen, liver, lungs, kidneys. But have the butcher package it in one-pound packages or something manageable. Also keep the heart. I like to serve heart for a meal at least once per week. And remember, just starting out on raw, this stuff is going to be set aside in the freezer for a while. So be sure to mark the packages so you can remember what's inside.

added- oh and they make cheese and they offered me "whey"? She said its really good for dogs.
Never tired it but doesn't seem like it could hurt them. Just start out with a little and see how your dog reacts. I hate the 2AM pottly calls when they just CANNOT hold it and it turns into an entire night of hershey squirts every hour.

Do you plan your meals around your dogs or just buy meat for your dogs? I was thinking since I generally buy my meat on sale and eat it within a week why not plan that around whats on sale/what I eat, make one shopping trip :p
I watch for the really great sales on whole chickens and stock up when I can on those, since one meal per day is always chicken at our house. Otherwise, the other meal is whatever comes along. I don't shop as often as most people since we only get payed monthly. So I tend to do one large shopping expedition around payday. Then if I run in for milk or fresh fruits / vegetables I try to make an early morning run so I can check out the mark down bins in the meat dept.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
:)

Ok, so we're on day 3 of nothing but raw, just chicken with bone and no organ meat yet, we are having trouble finding organ meat, going to an asian market tomorrow to find it. He is doing very well although he hasn't had a bowel movement in about 24 hours, I gave him some yogurt and we're going to pick up a digestive aid until he gets used to raw. He is eating happily, even if it is very hot/humid. He has an ear infection but I'm not worried, its very mild and just in the beginning stages (went to the vet already, glad we got off the kibble, thinks its an allergy) So yea, so far so good!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
update

Emmett has pooped, it was the teeniest poop I have ever seen. I'm hoping that means he'd digesting most of his food and not that he's constipated... lol I bought fresh digest for a digestive aid, everything else was either too expensive or not readily available. I plan on ordering prozyme online (or if you know of another one let me know)

I figure until he really gets in the swing of things I'll leave him with a a digestive aid, and then only suppliment it occasionally. I have vitamin E, he is going to get one tablet every 3 days. I am also giving him salmon oil (which I have been giving him for awhile) two caplets every day. I am going to the market to buy chicken since its onsale, .79/lbs for a whole chicken (is that a good price?) and considering for just beef meat they have london broils for $1.79/lbs. I am off to an asian market to get organs, that sounds so weird :p and hopefully I can get those reasonably cheap. I think in the whole chickens they have the organs as well. How do I cut/quarter a chicken? I've never had to take one apart, this will be an interesting day... lol.
 

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But yourself a decent pair of kitchen shears...they look like tin snips...at Walmart or some housewares store. You can literally cut right through small bones. The big joints you just crack at the ball and socket and then cut inbetween. Usually with a chicken I start by cutting off the legs, thighs, wings. Then I empty out the cavity, hopefully the organs are there. Then I cut right up from the butt to the neck either between the breasts or on the other side, on one side or the other of the backbone. Once you get it spread out flat you can see where the places you can cut further will be. And besides, this isn't Julia Child's kitchen! You can hack that bird up any way you please!

As far as stocking up on other meat, you have plenty of time. And I don't buy anything, unless I have to, over $1/pound. Those london broils may be on sale this week and they may have lots left over to mark down at the end of the sale, even cheaper. And yes, in my area 79 cents / pound for chicken is a good price. Rarely we get it for 69 cents. But that's the lowest it goes here.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just want to say again thank you so much, everyone has been so helpful!!

Ok, so cooking shears, organs and chicken lmao. Just personally do you think its worth buying a lot of it or no? I probably only have enough room for 3 or 4 birds and within a few weeks am getting half a deer and two turkeys, then later rements of a cow. I guess its a matter of luck.

when feeding parts of a whole chicken so I add some boneless pieces to add more meat content? Or is the bone/meat ratio fine? I have to buy more organs but I'm doing my best to weigh everything. He's about 75 lbs so he eats about 1 1/2 lbs to 2 lbs. I figure if he's hot he won't eat more than 1 lb, and in the winter he'll eat closer to 2.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I know I shouldn't keep this thread going but I'd rather make this one long than have several different therads ;) No wool sweaterss!!

Anyway, Emmett didn't eat for 2 days, between the heat and the organ meat (he REFUSED to eat organ meat for two days) he just did not want to hear it. Now it was chillier today (only 70 degrees vs the 90 or so its been) but he doesn't seem to be interested in raw organ meat. I threw it in the microwave for about 30 seconds and cut it up, he ate it. Will nuking it for 30 seconds do much to it? I don't want to baby him but he refused to eat it for 2 whole days (I wouldn't give him anything else till he at his veggies... I mean organ meat ;) worse than a kid I tell ya! It wasn't anything special, it was from stop and shop and just said "chicken giblets". Its for human consumption... I don't know if he knew how to eat it, he would lick it and then look at me. When it was cooked/cut up he licked it, got in his mouth, chewed it.

so yea, always a pain ^.^
 

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I don't think cooking it will hurt. It's unfortunate as it is one more thing for you to do. But what the heck. I've hidden unwanted food under other stuff before and done whatever it takes. And they have to get the organs for the vitamins. Liver is loaded with vitamins A and D, etc...it's important or you will have to supplement.
 

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I've had a hard time getting 1 of my dogs to eat raw organs too. I've found she eats it better if it's partially frozen OR ... I've started feeding her the organs (she gets organs 3 times a week) very first thing in the morning when she's hungriest, & feed it to her by hand - it basically just slides down her throat that way - yuck!
It took awhile for DJ too, but now, after about 6 months, he eats organ meats real well.
 

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You have been feeding raw for a week? Don't need to worry yet. Try the teeniest bit you can cut and smear it on the meat or stick it under the chicken skin. Organ meat has a really powerful taste and smell that takes time for some dogs to get used to. It may be wasted in part but 1/2 pound of liver is $.75.

Last month Max had a teeny poo I planned to pick up the following day but it had shrinken and disappeared into the lawn so I couldn't find it.

Guess I don't have a good pair of kitchen shears. I washed off my garden pruners and used them. They worked great on turkey.

To be certain the diet is balanced you can go nuts like me and make up a recipe on nutritiondata.com and compare to the NRC recommendations. The old ones are online at http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309034965&page=44
If you really really want to go nuts you can use ND and make up a custom nutritional profile under My Preferences and put your foods into tracking to see how your diet stacks up. Then search using the handy dandy tool there to find foods to get missing stuff in the diet.

I have been very interested to see that all the nutrients WE need from plants are available from meats as well. WE don't do well with all the fat and cholesterol but dogs were designed to eat this way. I moved Max to raw over a period of months from home cooked food. After I noticed the pumpkin was coming out looking exactly like it went in he was totally meat fed.
 
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