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I read through this and everyone who said that the animal is dead just the nerves are firing are correct. When you shoot an animal esp rodent family, they do the dance...I do not take inhumane shots and know I have killed animal X (food, or pest) but they do the dance no matter where you hit them, they are dead but the nerves are still firing, other examples of this are chickens running around without their head, and lizards who loose their tails yet the tail moves on the ground
 

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What I find interesting about this is that it is completely legal for the Chinese to do these kinds of things to living creatures, yet their government won't allow video games that show any bones, skeletons or dead things. http://www.china.org.cn/english/entertainment/216622.htm And coming from a WOW player, the bones and dead things in WOW are pretty darn mild. Your character just tips over when it dies even. None of the blood and gore of some of the other popular games.
 

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I personal opinion is that PETA = a bunch of hippies naked around a fire smoking crack and marijuana.
That's kind of how I think of REAL animal rights people. ALF, maybe. I think PETA has been infiltrated by animal haters. There's really no other explanation.
 

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That's kind of how I think of REAL animal rights people. ALF, maybe. I think PETA has been infiltrated by animal haters. There's really no other explanation.
I agree. If they were pot smoking, well-meaning hippies who just wanted everyone to love each other, I'd be much more sympathetic of them.
 

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That's kind of how I think of REAL animal rights people. ALF, maybe. I think PETA has been infiltrated by animal haters. There's really no other explanation.
If I recall correctly ALF would definetly fall under the terrorist section of AR groups.

PETA is actually responsible for killing very large numbers of animals every year. Few years ago dead dogs kept being found dumped in dumpster behind a shopping center frequently. These dead dog dumps were eventually tied to a PETA employee, they couldn't even be bothered to properly dispose of the dead animals.
 

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If I recall correctly ALF would definetly fall under the terrorist section of AR groups.

PETA is actually responsible for killing very large numbers of animals every year. Few years ago dead dogs kept being found dumped in dumpster behind a shopping center frequently. These dead dog dumps were eventually tied to a PETA employee, they couldn't even be bothered to properly dispose of the dead animals.
Oh, yeah, I know that ALF engages in terrorist activities. But I would think of them more as pot-smoking hippies--"hey, I know, let's go release all those poor fur-farm minks so they don't get killed!" (Ill-advised but I guess they mean to help the animals). PETA doesn't even pretend to help animals anymore. They just want to kill them all.
 

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Oh, yeah, I know that ALF engages in terrorist activities. But I would think of them more as pot-smoking hippies--"hey, I know, let's go release all those poor fur-farm minks so they don't get killed!" (Ill-advised but I guess they mean to help the animals). PETA doesn't even pretend to help animals anymore. They just want to kill them all.
Good lord. What does everybody have against the pot-smoking hippies? (I used to be one). The thing about pot smoking hippies is that they might talk about liberating the weasels, but they'd just fire up another joint and liberate a package of oreos instead. It's a mistake to think of these people as misguided but basically harmless and well-meaning. They are not. And it's not unheard of that the leadership of ALF ends up on the payrolls of H$U$. We have the terrorist lunatic fringe (ALF/ELF, etc); the publicity seeking lunatic fringe (PeTA) and the socially established lunatic fringe who pretends to be mainstream (H$U$) but they work together, in many cases are the same people, and have the same goals. It's also important to remember that the terrorists don't just liberate weasels. They bomb, burn, sabotage and intentionally endanger life.
 

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I personal opinion is that PETA = a bunch of hippies naked around a fire smoking crack and marijuana.
Hippies certainly wouldn't be about anything is oppressive as trying to eliminate pet ownership, let alone expanding governmental power (laws) to facilitate this quest.

They were about freedom (bordering on anarchy), not oppression.
 

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Hehe, I think "pot-smoking hippies" is just another way of saying "idealistic gone overboard".

Sadly, I can kind of see how idealistic animal rightsists can justify people being killed while they're saving animals. . .after all, if somebody is keeping people captive, imprisoning them in tiny cells from birth to death and killing them for their skins (or some other product that can only be produced by killing them), the SWAT team would barge right in there to liberate the humans, and if the guy got killed in the process they wouldn't feel bad about it. And if there was no SWAT team (maybe it's legal), a group of well-meaning individuals would take it upon themselves to liberate those imprisoned humans. So if someone considers an animal's life to be as valuable as a human's, then I guess there's no difference to them. Misguided, yes, but they do care about the animals and want to help them.

Keep in mind that I don't personally know any animal rights activists (or at least none that admit to it openly), because to admit to being such would be taking your life in your hands in this state (violence goes both ways). So I still have an idealistic notion of what they stand for, based on their written statements (both internet and pre-internet). I have no idea what kind of whackjobs (or hypocrites) they tend to be in real life.
 

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The powers that be inside PETA don't feel it is worth the loss of life for an ant to be killed for a cure to cancer, AIDS, diabities, etc. THAT is misguided IMO.
 

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I actually did some research into animal slaughtering practices for that very reason, and most people would be surprised how much an animal that is killed via the Captive Bolt method (which is scientifically proven to be the quickest, painfree, and most humane method of killing livestock) moves and spasms even after its clinically brain-dead. The brain, having been basically scrambled, misfires for several moments after death. That's just another example of AR groups using the average suburban-ite's ignorance of huma
Am I the only one that thought "Zombie Tourette's?"
 

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Hehe, I think "pot-smoking hippies" is just another way of saying "idealistic gone overboard".

Sadly, I can kind of see how idealistic animal rightsists can justify people being killed while they're saving animals. . .after all, if somebody is keeping people captive, imprisoning them in tiny cells from birth to death and killing them for their skins (or some other product that can only be produced by killing them), the SWAT team would barge right in there to liberate the humans, and if the guy got killed in the process they wouldn't feel bad about it. And if there was no SWAT team (maybe it's legal), a group of well-meaning individuals would take it upon themselves to liberate those imprisoned humans. So if someone considers an animal's life to be as valuable as a human's, then I guess there's no difference to them. Misguided, yes, but they do care about the animals and want to help them.

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Difference being, of course, that the SWAT team or the random well-meaning self-appointed posse seldom thinks the best way to "save" someone is to eliminate them.
 

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Keep in mind that I don't personally know any animal rights activists (or at least none that admit to it openly), because to admit to being such would be taking your life in your hands in this state (violence goes both ways). So I still have an idealistic notion of what they stand for, based on their written statements (both internet and pre-internet). I have no idea what kind of whackjobs (or hypocrites) they tend to be in real life.
Willowy, you sure do seem to have a lot of ideas about the motives and actions of people you have never met. You don't personally know any breeders, but you have strong opinions about them. You don't personally know any AR activists, but you understand how they feel.
 

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Willowy, you sure do seem to have a lot of ideas about the motives and actions of people you have never met. You don't personally know any breeders, but you have strong opinions about them. You don't personally know any AR activists, but you understand how they feel.
As for breeders, I have have strong opinions about their practices because I have to rescue their products or see them killed in shelters. And, maybe you didn't read my posts very well, because I know tons of breeders. Just none I would consider ethical or responsible.

I know about animal rights people by what they write and distribute. I'm not sure how else to find out what they believe. I'm sure I could find an animal rights group in the area if I tried hard enough, but that seems like a lot of effort just to find out whether they believe the same things other AR people believe or not. And I'd rather not have my house torched or my cats killed just for the sake of intellectual exploration.
 

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Difference being, of course, that the SWAT team or the random well-meaning self-appointed posse seldom thinks the best way to "save" someone is to eliminate them.
I don't believe most AR groups believe that either. Only PETA.
 

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And that's where you are wrong. Majority of AR groups believe they are better off dead than 'captive.'
Can you prove that? I can't.
 

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Difference being, of course, that the SWAT team or the random well-meaning self-appointed posse seldom thinks the best way to "save" someone is to eliminate them.
And that's where you are wrong. Majority of AR groups believe they are better off dead than 'captive.'
Evidence, please.
Not less than a month ago my visiting West Coast ex Peta member sister (who claims her beliefs are now less radical) was commenting on how spoiled my dogs are. She then went on to say . . . . . "but you know most pet owners pay no attention and their dogs would be better off dead than suffering alone all day."

She also went on to lament about those that use crates, and that puppies are pack animals and should stay with their littermates until puberty as that would be when they would 'naturally' be pushed away etc. etc. . . . .and therefore the sale of pets is misguided and those that support it on both sides, if they really examined the idea, are really dispicable . . . . . becuz, ya know, she is some kind of authority as a naturalist and teacher.

I've heard this type of comment from her in so many different forms in the past, in front of various people that then slightly agree or not depending on the thought they are putting into it, that, to me, it is evidence of an attitude fostered and propogated by these groups.

Of course it is not evidense on a grande scale . . . . don't knowif there could be such a thing.

SOB
 
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