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I just bought my dog Lincoln, now 12 weeks old, an exercise pen for inside the house. My house is big and I struggled to try and keep an eye on him making sure he wasn't getting into things he shouldn't and having accidents throughout the house. So i bought him a good size playpen for the house. He does fairly well and its still adjusting but I need a couple of opinions. He seems to do well when we aren't walking by it too much but once he sees us he goes on a barking spree (granted it doesn't last too long) should I put his pen somewhere we aren't walking by it so often? Or should he get used to seeing us pass by? Also, what do you guys think about putting the pen in the backyard every now and then for an hour or so? TIA!
 

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Put the pen where you feel it is most convenient. Most people put the pen in an area where people generally hang out, like a living area or kitchen, yet out of the way so nobody is tripping over it. The pup needs to get used to just chilling out in the house no matter what you're doing, and barking and whining is going to be part of that. It's okay. He'll get over it and learn that nothing is going to happen, he just needs to chill. Put the pen wherever it works best for your family.

You can put the pen in the yard as long as you're there to supervise. If you just leave him outside in the pen, he'll probably just bark, anyway. Also, that gives a little too much opportunity for people to steal a cute little puppy, and if he's small big predatory birds can pick him up, or pretty much any wild animal can snack on him.
 

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Great for chew sessions of messy stuff - no need to scrub the floor. Watch out, they can easily walk the pen out and it will tip over which can traumatize puppy and allow escape. It is easy to make covers for exercise pens with a sheet and some spring clamps. Helps with walking out as well! My dogs adore it when we hang out in the back yard with them. Try it sometime you want to sit in the sun or do some puttering out there.
 

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OAP thinks crating dogs is "torturous" (and has problems with their dogs/separation) so take their advice with a grain of salt. I'm being blunt but honest here. I don't want random people seeking reasonable advice here to think that they are abusing their dogs for using a pen or a crate. OAP, your opinions are fine however much they contribute to your difficulties with your puppy. But again, I don't want the average owner to think they're being wrong or abusive... because they're not.

I think as long as the setup is safe and you are doing it for reasonable amounts of time, you can put the pen up anywhere. I think for any lifestyle that requires the dog to be alone for any amount of time (grocery trip, work, emergency situation, etc.), it is ESSENTIAL that dogs learn to calmly be alone as early as possible. It is not emotionally cruel at all if the process is done correctly (ie, the dog is taught to love the space, and time is increased gradually). Giving the dog very special toys or treats (ex. stuffed Kong, raw bone, bully stick, etc.) in that space will help. Having the puppy in that space regularly, while you are in the same room (ex. watching a movie, cooking, etc.) will also help the puppy learn that time physically separated from you, even when you are home, is part of everyday living. This can really help dogs learn to be calm and not too pushy when you are home and also when you are away.
 

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OAP thinks crating dogs is "torturous" (and has problems with their dogs/separation) so take their advice with a grain of salt. I'm being blunt but honest here. I don't want random people seeking reasonable advice here to think that they are abusing their dogs for using a pen or a crate. OAP, your opinions are fine however much they contribute to your difficulties with your puppy. But again, I don't want the average owner to think they're being wrong or abusive... because they're not.

I think as long as the setup is safe and you are doing it for reasonable amounts of time, you can put the pen up anywhere. I think for any lifestyle that requires the dog to be alone for any amount of time (grocery trip, work, emergency situation, etc.), it is ESSENTIAL that dogs learn to calmly be alone as early as possible. It is not emotionally cruel at all if the process is done correctly (ie, the dog is taught to love the space, and time is increased gradually). Giving the dog very special toys or treats (ex. stuffed Kong, raw bone, bully stick, etc.) in that space will help. Having the puppy in that space regularly, while you are in the same room (ex. watching a movie, cooking, etc.) will also help the puppy learn that time physically separated from you, even when you are home, is part of everyday living. This can really help dogs learn to be calm and not too pushy when you are home and also when you are away.
I second this. The vast majority of dogs do have to be alone at some point in time so their owners can shower and use the bathroom and eat, and many have to be alone for 8+ hours a day while their owners work. Puppies get into things, and exercise pens and crates to set up boundaries and rules and prevent bad habits at a young age are sometimes a necessity if you don't have a 'dog proofed' room.
 

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I never said your opinion was not valid. However, I think your implied and direct suggestions can be harmful to an average owner seeking advice on how to properly crate/pen train a puppy. Readers can decide what they want to do with advice given to them, for sure. I think they need to evaluate the advice in the context of the person giving them. Because everyone and anyone can sound like an expert on a public forum. If you reread your post, a lot of it is not merely opinion.


That would be emotionally cruel for any dog but especially so for a puppy.
A statement, not an opinion. False statement, at that.

You cannot evaluate training protocols based on 'posts others make'. How much experience have you had successfully crate training any dog? Putting a dog suffering from separation anxiety in a crate and then failing, does not constitute successful crate training. It is a negative experience for sure, I give you that. I am not telling YOU to use a crate, despite the fact that objectively it could make your life with your puppy much easier. You ARE telling the OP using a pen would be "emotionally cruel" and that is simply not true. For sure I am going to call you, and your lack of experience, out. I am going to call it out loud so no reader who sees this will think they are abusing their animals when they are doing proper separation training.
 

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"Please stop addressing me on this issue. I have no desire to discuss it any further with you, and I do not want you to use my name or mention my dog anymore. These forums are open to all members, and I will offer my opinion on any question as I see fit. I expect other members shall do the same."

Except for Canyx, I guess.

Don't presume to tell any member what they can or cannot say or who they can or cannot address. This is your only warning. If you believe someone has broken a forum rule, use the report function to notify the moderators.
 

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Let me say this as succinctly as possible. I do not advocate crating dogs because I feel that doing so is a huge mistake which harm is highly unlikely to ever be reversed. I have formed this opinion over several decades of seeing what crating does to animals. That is my opinion whether you like it or disagree with it or not. Please stop addressing me on this issue. I have no desire to discuss it any further with you, and I do not want you to use my name or mention my dog anymore. These forums are open to all members, and I will offer my opinion on any question as I see fit. I expect other members shall do the same.

To the original poster, I believe it is a very grave mistake to crate your dog. I promise you it will create more problems than it will solve, and the effects of it may not be able to be reversed in future. There is an entire industry out there that profits from manufacturing crates and telling people it is a good, safe, humane option to crate a dog in order to train it, but that does not make it objectively correct, humane, or even vaguely ethical.

People crate dogs because them deem it best for themselves, and they deceive both themselves and others if they think they are doing it in dog's best interest. You would be crating your dog because it solves your problem of the dog wandering around its own home and possibly soiling the rooms, chewing on furniture and rugs, or whatever, etc. That solves YOUR problem not the dog's problem. It is effectively jailing your dog to keep it from committing crimes that you promulgate in order to protect YOUR best interests. It has nothing to do with the dog's best interest anymore than putting shackles on circus elephants is in the elephants's best interest.

Crating dogs, as well as so many other practises involving animals, is the direct result of viewing dogs as mere "property," unfortunately, and viewing animals as mere property to do with as one sees fit is at the very heart of animal cruelty and suffering all over the world. Yes, I vehemently oppose it. That is my personal opinion on the matter.
Yes, exactly. I would rather crate or confine my dog than have him chew up electrical cords and get electrocuted, swallow something and get a blockage, or cause me thousands in damages. I can't supervise him 100% of the time. Preventing him from creating bad habits and creating boundaries in his youth has helped him develop good house manners so he doesn't need to be confined in maturity.

Your statements are based on your own personal experiences and beliefs. Many of us on this forum have successfully trained our dogs to view the crate as a positive space. Some of them have had decades of experience with multiple dogs. Do some dogs not like crates, no matter how well their owners tried to train them? Yes, absolutely. But it is simply untrue that placing a dog trained to view the crate or confinement in a positive light in a crate is cruel or emotionally abusive. I mean, they spend 18+ hours a day sleeping, so what does it matter if they spend a portion of those hours sleeping in a crate or on the couch?
 

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Dogs are naturally gregarious creatures that love to be near their people. I would not isolate him. That would be emotionally cruel for any dog but especially so for a puppy. Also, leaving him in a pen out of doors alone does not sound anymore safe to me than it would be to leave a baby outdoors alone in a play pen.

For what it is worth, if you would only close doors to rooms you are not using at the moment, and if you would purchase a baby gate to block him out of hallways, etc., I think that would work better than a play pen. I would not confine my dog that way. Good luck.
I really don't see a lot of fundamental differences between being confined in a yard, or a playpen, or a room, or a crate. Confinement is confinement. And no matter how you slice it, it's primarily for the dog's safety and well-being.

I'm puzzled by the following quote* because it seems to completely contradict your statements here in this thread.

I am leaving home shortly to run a couple of errands. I will be gone for at least two hours, and I plan to leave this puppy in her yard. It is lovely, sunny, warm but not a hot day. If she goes into melt down at being left in her yard with a blanket, fresh water, and some toys for 2-3 hours, then I feel she really needs to go to another home, but quite frankly, I cannot imagine another home that will have as much time for her as I do.
*taken from your "Puppy is afraid of everyone" thread. http://www.dogforums.com/dog-training-forum/497257-puppy-afraid-everyone-2.html
 

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I promise you it will create more problems than it will solve, and the effects of it may not be able to be reversed in future. There is an entire industry out there that profits from manufacturing crates and telling people it is a good, safe, humane option to crate a dog in order to train it, but that does not make it objectively correct, humane, or even vaguely ethical.

People crate dogs because them deem it best for themselves, and they deceive both themselves and others if they think they are doing it in dog's best interest. You would be crating your dog because it solves your problem of the dog wandering around its own home and possibly soiling the rooms, chewing on furniture and rugs, or whatever, etc. That solves YOUR problem not the dog's problem. It is effectively jailing your dog to keep it from committing crimes that you promulgate in order to protect YOUR best interests. It has nothing to do with the dog's best interest anymore than putting shackles on circus elephants is in the elephants's best interest.
I am not attacking you OAP. But I will continue to address false statements that you make. Again, I don't care what your opinion is. I disagree with a lot of your opinions, and opinions of others (even users here whom I largely respect). I don't "go after" people for their opinions. I do address harmful falsities about dog behavior wherever they occur.

You PROMISE crating will create more problems than it will solve. How is that an opinion? That is fear mongering, and again it is not necessarily true. Had you written, "Crating a dog without teaching the dog to love the crate can create problems", that would be true. You wrote "I do not advocate crating" and that is fine. However, making false promises to a person you do not know, is not fine.

You write crating is not "objectively correct, humane, or even vaguely ethical". That is false. Dozens of users here have their dogs putting themselves into their crates to sleep, dogs calmly chewing on a bone in their crates while people are at work. Objectively (the dog's physiology, body language, visible and measurable levels of stress), the dog is at peace. Certainly less stressed out than a puppy crying and whining in a large clean yard by herself.

Definition of objective: "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts." Your statements are entirely not objective. They are entirely based on your opinions. Separating opinion from suggestions can be a hard thing to do. If I show you a video of my dog calmly sleeping in his crate or pen, would you say that he is suffering, or that I am abusing him? Would you call it unethical because the dog is suffering (he is not, he is sleeping), or because you can't get over YOUR innate moral objections? Here's the bottom line. You don't like crates. That is fine. However, you are imposing your false knowledge (or lack of knowledge) of crate training on others. I do not care about your opinions. I care that you don't spread harmful suggestions.
 

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In the case of the OP she is asking if it is OK to have a pen outdoors (and watched) for a while. Yes, vicktoriastubb, it is fine. Just be sure to stake the pen down if it is lightweight so you puppy cannot push on it and over turn it (by jumping up on the sides of it) or push under it and get out.

Dogs are property OAP. As such, dogs, (cats, horses and livestock) should be well cared for. If all people who use crates and kennels and go to work stopped owning dogs a lot more dogs would be euthanized than saved. That may be the intention of OAP's posts.. to lead us all to some sort of Animal Rights group think where no one owns a dog or cat or horse and there are no livestock farmers.

Meanwhile, here in the States, pets and livestock alike are property under the law and are governed under various Agricultural and Markets Laws regarding their care and handling each to its own State or local authority.

While my dogs are companions and working partners, in the end, they are also my property. There are very good legal reasons for this. One of those is that the original poster and others can choose to utilize a crate to train their dog and keep them from mischief when the go out or go to work.

I have outdoor kennels AND indoor kennels for my dogs (10'x10' and/or 5'x10' all 6 feet high). This allows me to confine them in the the area of greatest comfort and safety when I am out or when I go to work M-F.

Going to work is another thing OAP is against as she believes having a dog and going to work are oppositional. Here is the thing.. most of us need to work to pay bills, keep a roof, pay for the dog care in all ways, eat and so forth.
 
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