[Tofu_pup]

I'm not sure if this has been on here. It is yet another reason I'm wary when it comes to kids and dogs. Where were the parents?! They said that the kid wanted to bathe it after a muddy walk through the garden. What business does a one week old puppy have stumbling through a garden?! I won't be surprised if the poor thing has brain damage.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/06/16/2009-06-16_puppy_.html

 

[Lolas_Dad]

That's all the world needs is more irresponsible pet owners. Glad the puppy survived.

 

[LoupGarouTFTs]

In the UK the "garden" is the yard, so it's not as if it was walking through the tulips. However, from what I know about the nature of the Daily Mirror and the nature of puppies, I'd say that it was pretty impossible for a week-old dog of any breed to be walking anywhere. I don't doubt that a puppy was found in a drain pipe, but as to the age of the puppy or how it got there, I think that someone has got some facts wrong.

 

[Tofu_pup]

In the UK the "garden" is the yard, so it's not as if it was walking through the tulips. However, from what I know about the nature of the Daily Mirror and the nature of puppies, I'd say that it was pretty impossible for a week-old dog of any breed to be walking anywhere. I don't doubt that a puppy was found in a drain pipe, but as to the age of the puppy or how it got there, I think that someone has got some facts wrong.

I know the garden=yard thing but I don't think a week old pup would be walking through the yard of its own accord. The pup looked like its eye weren't even open yet. Maybe I'm wrong. Whatever the facts are, I'd like to know them.

 

[jbsmomto1]

As much as we want to, Parents just cannot watch their kids every 2nd of the day. if we do not allow a child to make mistakes than they will never learn, so if we did watch every 2nd (even if we could) what would the kids learn? Even when are watching we can easily miss what is right under our nose, not b/c we are not paying attention but b/c our brains do not react as quick as our eyes sometimes. Have you ever watched a child fall and not be able to move quick enough to soften that fall? ...same thing.

Also why is a one week old puppy walking in the backyard anyway? At that age they are still blind, moving litte and sticking close to mom.

 

[ThoseWordsAtBest]

Have you ever watched a child fall and not be able to move quick enough to soften that fall? ...same thing.

I'd argue that this isn't close to the same thing. Yes, it's hard to watch someone at all times, but this kid made it from the yard all the way to the toilet with a puppy. I have a hard time believing that no one would catch that, or SPECIFICALLY be paying attention to the child the whole time he had one of the puppies. The kid shouldn't have even been able to get near the dog and her puppies.

 

[Erick Aguilar]

I'd argue that this isn't close to the same thing. Yes, it's hard to watch someone at all times, but this kid made it from the yard all the way to the toilet with a puppy. I have a hard time believing that no one would catch that, or SPECIFICALLY be paying attention to the child the whole time he had one of the puppies. The kid shouldn't have even been able to get near the dog and her puppies.

Yes it is the same thing, because, this is not something as simple as watching, this is about how fast your electric impulses and reflexes react to what you see.

Exactly like what jbsmomto1 said, there is a little something called Reaction Time here, that could have played a big role in here.

HOWEVER, by the age 4.. i kid should know that a toillette is for just 2 basic human needs, period.


We got to remember, some people, while being dog lovers, don't always see dogs as a priority.
And other people, think of dogs as the most important thing in the world, and some dog owners preffer to make a bigger fuzz over a pup than over a human baby.
I've heard of Fetu's flushed down the Toillette, i don't see why a flushed puppy is such a brutality.

 

[ThoseWordsAtBest]

Yes it is the same thing, because, this is not something as simple as watching, this is about how fast your electric impulses and reflexes react to what you see.

Exactly like what jbsmomto1 said, there is a little something called Reaction Time here, that could have played a big role in here.

HOWEVER, by the age 4.. i kid should know that a toillette is for just 2 basic human needs, period.


We got to remember, some people, while being dog lovers, don't always see dogs as a priority.
And other people, think of dogs as the most important thing in the world, and some dog owners preffer to make a bigger fuzz over a pup than over a human baby.
I've heard of Fetu's flushed down the Toillette, i don't see why a flushed puppy is such a brutality.

Maybe I'm not understanding what jbsmom1 is saying, but to me this situation is NOT about electric impulses/react/etc. unless the family walked in on the kid JUST as he was grabbing the handle to flush, in which case they shouldn't have allowed him to wander anywhere with a 1 week old pup. If they were paying attention the whole time (which, they should have been), they're not just going to brain fart while watching the kid walk in the bathroom, put the dog in the toilet, and flush.

 

[Erick Aguilar]

Maybe I'm not understanding what jbsmom1 is saying, but to me this situation is NOT about electric impulses/react/etc. unless the family walked in on the kid JUST as he was grabbing the handle to flush, in which case they shouldn't have allowed him to wander anywhere with a 1 week old pup. If they were paying attention the whole time (which, they should have been), they're not just going to brain fart while watching the kid walk in the bathroom, put the dog in the toilet, and flush.

You are thinking it as a dog lover who cannot stop watching your dogs, or kids (if you have any)... but some people are faster thinkers than others.
You see your kid get inside the bathroom with the muddy pup.. o.k, so maybe the kid is going to put the pup in the shower, or wipe it with a towel, you ask him if he is going to clean the pup (generalizing, cleaning, water,a bath) kid says yes.

Maybe parents did go to the bathroom and see what he was doing, but too late, they just heard the toillette being flushed

While i do agree a kid should never handle a one week pup, on the other sides the parents might have trusted alot the kid, and suming up Kid innocence to the formula (a friend of my sister tried to dry up a little chick in the microwave when she was also 4 or 5)
I can tell you something though, the parents will NEVER let the kid handle a pup that easily anymore.

 

[Independent George]

Considering the source, I was skeptical that the pup in question really was 1-week old (or, indeed, that it was even a dog), but if it was small enough to flush, it had to be within that age range. That brings us back to the question everyone here is asking: WTF is a 4 year-old kid doing with access to a newborn pup? Or alone with any dog, for that matter?

Weeks 1-4: kids are a danger to the pups.
Weeks 5-7: both are a danger to each other.
Weeks 8+: pups/dogs are a danger to the kid.

Either way, a 4 year-old kid should never be alone with a dog of any kind.

 

[GSDGAL]

it was all over the news here, about a week ago


this is the puppy

this is the article
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Puppy-Rescue-Dog-Flushed-Down-Toilet-Is-Saved-By-Dyno-Rod-Engineers-In-Northolt-Middlesex/Article/200906315306045?videoSourceID=83fa45a0a0ea0210VgnVCM1000005d04170aRCRD&lpos=UK_News_Article_Inline_Player_List_3&lid=ARTICLE_15306045_Puppy_Rescue%3A_Dog_Flushed_Down_Toilet_Is_Saved_By_Dyno-Rod_Engineers_In_Northolt%2C_Middlesex

 

[jbsmomto1]

As a parent and a daycare provider for young children, I can totally see how this could happen. You get busy folding laundry, taking care of another kid etc etc and you do get sidetracked. Should it happen? No, but it does. Accidents like this are liley never to be repeated by the same person and in this case I am can almost guarantee the adult in charge will be more attentive.

Yes a 4 year old SHOULD know better, but kids lack the impluse control that we as adults have (and even some adults lack this skill). I think in his mind his thinking was logical, probably to small to turn the tub on, to short to reach the sink but just the perfect height for the tolet...in his young mind he was just giving the puppy a bath. Our flushers on the toilets are easily hit and flushed. The boy DID tell his mom, so he was aware that it was a bad thing, but I honestly don't think he was old enough to see the future of that puppy going down the drain. At 4 they just don't have teh capabilty to think as we do as adults. The mom may not have put 2 and 2 together, she may have been busy with anotehr task and didn't see the boy with the pup...a lot of things in this story are missing and it isn't fair to judge the mom or the boy without knowing ALL of it. I do believe the boys intentions were not malice, otherwise he probably wouldn;t have said anything at all.

My daughter was not quite 2 yrs old, we were both in the bathroom. I was right beside her and watched her drop a toy into the toilet, before I could react she flushed the toy. Had to call a plumber to come and remove the toilet, find the toy and replace the toilet. What made it even worse was that it was Christmas eve lol, getting a plumber at 6pm christmas eve was a fight, needless to say the bill was HUGE lol. So things DO happen, even with an attentive, decent parent right there, they just do.

 

[Elana55]

I am glad I left the child rearing to those with more courage than I....

 

[jbsmomto1]

I am glad I left the child rearing to those with more courage than I....

LOL actually raising children or helping someone to raise children is the best thing in the world. I regret waiting so long to have my daughter and am now getting to old to have another without some risks. Its wonderful to experience everything I loved as a child but outgrew all over again with new eyes.

 

[Shaina]

As a parent and a daycare provider for young children, I can totally see how this could happen. You get busy folding laundry, taking care of another kid etc etc and you do get sidetracked. Should it happen? No, but it does.

I think, realistically, the point is that the parent should realize that they can't pay attention at every single moment and thus take preventative measures by eliminating the child's access to the puppies...the same way you would eliminate their access to steep stairs, stoves, and cleaning chemicals. A simple locked door or gate could have solved the problem before it occurred.

Or to put it in "dog" terms...the thinking that leads you to confine a new puppy when you can't give him/her your undivided attention for safety and to prevent the acquisition of bad habits (ie. breaking rules the pup doesn't know are rules yet) such as eliminating in the house, chewing electric cords or other danger/inappropriate items, etc.

 

[LMH]

Did you all hear about the story of the little kid-I believe 5 or 4yrs old who put his little sis I believe maybe two in the washer and she died. Would anyone then say -Oh well a parent can't watch a child every second of the day-. That is the lamest execuse. I think it is a good point made here that at that age they should have not had access to the puppies unsupervised just as an adult dog should not be alone with children unsupervised. If that is too much for parents to handle then don't have a dog and small children at the same time.

 

[Dakota Spirit]

I think, realistically, the point is that the parent should realize that they can't pay attention at every single moment and thus take preventative measures by eliminating the child's access to the puppies...the same way you would eliminate their access to steep stairs, stoves, and cleaning chemicals. A simple locked door or gate could have solved the problem before it occurred.

Bingo.

I think the difference between this situation and others (that involve toys, for example) is this involved harming another living thing. Granted kids don't really have a good grasp of common sense, right and wrong, etc. (and I don't really blame the child) but the parents really have no excuse in the matter.

As another example of what LMH was saying, imagine a situation where the puppy were a newborn baby instead and rather then flushing, it was some other accident. Say the mother left her baby in a room unattended (for however long) and the kids came along and decided to 'care' for their younger sibling while in the process seriously injuring him. I guarantee people wouldn't be going out of their way to overly understanding - they'd more likely be vilifying the mother for allowing it to happen. To me, this is the same kind of case. It's not about whether or not the dogs are a priority in the household or anything like that - just the simple fact that they are living beings who deserve protection from a toddlers 'mistakes'.

I'm glad the pup survived and I hope this at least gets the parents to rethink whatever arrangement they have regarding the kid's access to the puppies.

 

[Erick Aguilar]

Bingo.

I think the difference between this situation and others (that involve toys, for example) is this involved harming another living thing. Granted kids don't really have a good grasp of common sense, right and wrong, etc. (and I don't really blame the child) but the parents really have no excuse in the matter.

As another example of what LMH was saying, imagine a situation where the puppy were a newborn baby instead and rather then flushing, it was some other accident. Say the mother left her baby in a room unattended (for however long) and the kids came along and decided to 'care' for their younger sibling while in the process seriously injuring him. I guarantee people wouldn't be going out of their way to overly understanding - they'd more likely be vilifying the mother for allowing it to happen. To me, this is the same kind of case. It's not about whether or not the dogs are a priority in the household or anything like that - just the simple fact that they are living beings who deserve protection from a toddlers 'mistakes'.

I'm glad the pup survived and I hope this at least gets the parents to rethink whatever arrangement they have regarding the kid's access to the puppies.

While that is humanly true, and i agree:
Dogs don't have the same importance a human being does, society wise, you can't compare the murder of a human, or the murder of a dog, or a kid harming his little sibling compared to a kid harming or accidentally flushing a pup.

Dog lovers need to understand, in society, Humans are more important than dogs, and you can't make such a gigant comparison, Period. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, i love dogs to death too, but if i had to make a decision in which a family member of mine was in jeopardy while i had to take care of my young pup i would get out of my house asap without the dog, probably not even crating it, call me a bad dog owner, but that's what my instincts would tell me to do)

 

[Dakota Spirit]

I think you misunderstood my point, Erick. What I was trying to say had nothing to do with who's more important in a crisis or even who's more important in everyday life. The issue isn't importance here - it's the simple matter dogs are living creatures (like babies) and thus, need and deserve protection from this kind of thing.

I'm not sure how this got turned into an discussion of putting pets above humans as I don't see anyone suggesting that. I also fail to see how my outlook is effected by being a dog lover. Really, that has nothing to do with it. My opinion on this matter is based on taking responsibility for the lives you bring into your house and that's it. It wouldn't matter if they were kitten lives, dog lives, baby lives, etc. The issue is responsibility, not importance of the life affected.

 

[GSDGAL]

I killed a baby pigeon once, my mum watched me like a hawk and yet apparently i had seen her feeding it by putting food down it's throat and so i shoved a stick down its throat, it took all of 3 seconds. Kids will be kids and do kid things, like flush puppies down toilets and kill baby pigeons (by accident). I remember a lady down the road that bred golden retrievers, she had twin boys 3 years old, the boys decided to take a 3 week old puppy for a walk into the front yard, where their mother was keeping a shepherd that she was babysitting for a friend, long story short, the pup died and the kids chastised, things happen, no matter what you do to prevent it...this ended up being a cute and heart warming story about a boy and his dog, don't turn it into something that it isn't.