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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know that it's my fault, but even so I figured that by now he'd be housebroken already. You see, when I first got Little, my now four-month-old Pomeranian, the only thing I had to keep him in at night (actually, I didn't even think of using a small cardboard box at the time) was the wire dog crate that my 1-year-old Lab mix was using, so you can imagine that the little guy (who, incidentally, weighs between only 2-3 lbs.) was swimming in it. Because it was large enough that he could get away with pooping and peeing inside, it created a habit... and now he thinks that he's supposed to relieve himself in his crate.

I know he can hold himself, because he's done it many times before, but now that I've been able to get a smaller crate, he STILL won't stop. I figured that because of the small space, he wouldn't want to relieve himself because he'd have to lay in it... at least, that's the concept of crate training. However, even after I stuffed the back of the small crate (because, despite the fact that it's the smallest size available, it was still too big) with cardboard boxes to give him only about six to eight inches of room around him, he still poops and pees in his crate... and yes, he has to lay in it, because there's nowhere to get away from it. So, if he has to sleep in discomfort, why is he STILL doing that? I know it's my fault, but is there any way at all to undo a bad habit like that? He just doesn't seem to be getting it at all, and it's making him believe that it's okay to relieve himself anywhere in the house. My aunt also got a Pom puppy as well, who weighed between 2-3 pounds when she first bought her, and right away she got the concept of crate training... so I know there has to be the ability there to hold it all night.

He never whines during the night, never makes a peep, but he still goes in his crate. And yesterday, to top it off, I gave him a bath... well, he's going to have to get another one cause now his coat is covered in pee and poop. He is THE hardest dog that I've ever had to train (walking on a leash has been terrible, housebreaking is still in the works...), even topping the hyperactive Bambi.

And please, don't tell me that I was wrong to begin with because I know that. I knew in the beginning, before I even put him in the large cage, that it wasn't going to work... but I couldn't help it because I honestly didn't have anywhere else to keep him until we were able to get our smaller cage back. So no lectures, please. Just tell me how I can stop the behavior...

(As a note, the other night between 11 and 1 o'clock I put him in his crate. He was in there for less than two hours and when I went to take him outside, there was already a love present (two lovely presents, to be exact) in there... but when he's in the house loose, oftentimes he can hold it even longer than the time he was confined in the crate. So what's the deal?
 

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The crate is only part of the housetraining process but, at this point your only option is to eliminate the crate entirely. Set up an Xpen or other confinement area for when you can't watch Little.
The really important part is taking him out every hour to relieve himself where you praise and treat for going in the right spot....that's where the real training comes in.
 

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Make sure you clean the crate with an enzyme cleaner. You may need to pick a different kind until he gets the idea (if you're using a plastic style, try the metal ones or a soft one).

I think your best bet for such a little guy is an x-pen (or bathroom or laundry room) with a puppy pad, and the open crate for him to sleep in.
 

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I had a long, detailed post written in your other thread because this one had a note for the mods to delete it, so I answered in the other one and lost my entire post. Ugh!

Basically, I agree with TooneyDogs. Ditch the crate at least for now, because your dog has been taught that's his bathroom. And supervise him. Leash him to you if you have to. Even at night. So when he wakes up and starts looking to potty, you can get up and take him outside.

Take him out regularly in the daytime (every hour at first) and keep a log of when he goes. Don't show frustration or anger EVER around the potty process. After a day or so, start taking him out every 2 hours, and continue to log his potty and feeding times. In other words, evaluate his routine. Use LOTS of praise when he goes outside. Have a potty party! Complete with delicious treats.

It's going to take a lot more work than just regular crate potty training, but stop relying on the crate because that is no longer an option. They lose that instinct when allowed to go in their sleeping area.
 

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We're assuming that this puppy is having regular vet visits for vaccinations so if anything else was the problem, your vet would have discussed it with you.

Once physical problems are ruled out...

be sure to feed the puppy 3 times per day on a regular schedule with plenty of water with meals and limit water betweenmeals

pick up the water bowl 2 hours before bedtime

start by taking the dog outside every hour 24/7, if there are no accidents try every 2 hours

don't leave the dog unsupervised, ever
 

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Eyssa,

I really feel your pain. I have a similar problem and it pushes your patience to the edge. How long can you continue to take the dog out every 2 hours and still have the dog go in the crate? If they were sleeping, got excited or whatever it seems you need to take them out between the 2 hours. Then when you take them out all they want to do is eat squirrel crap, maple tree wirlybirds or dandelions. Watch them like a hawk and as soon as you turn your back they do a #1 on you. I'm lucky she's doing #2 in the morning and evening outside. Mine does #1 in the cage, licks it up then lays in it.

Before getting this one, I couldn't believe how easy it was for people to give up their dogs. Certainly people can only take so much til they snap especially when you end up with one that has all the big problems;biting, barking, walking, chewing & accidents.
 

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Eyssa,

Before getting this one, I couldn't believe how easy it was for people to give up their dogs. Certainly people can only take so much til they snap especially when you end up with one that has all the big problems;biting, barking, walking, chewing & accidents.
Most problem like these result from poor/lack of training. Certainly not the dog's fault and something any potential owner should be ready for.
 

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You mean, a puppy?
Yes I mean a puppy. I've not experienced the simple biting, walking, messing problems that all the books and videos adress. The biting (not mouthing) - the ignoring, yelping, saying no and all the rest doesn't work in my case when the blood is running down your leg and arms. Messing - haven't gotten any simple solutions to messing when the puppy does #1 in the crate then licks it up and lays in what's left. No barking or anything to let us know to take her out and you just took her out an hour ago. Haven't gotten much sleep for 2 months I'm taking her out so much. Can't get her to go for walks in front of my house. I need to pick her up and go down the street. In all the books and videos you only see simple solutions to these problems, not ones for the complicated ones, thus the need for this forum.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread just making a point that I can see how frustrated people get. My first JR was a dream with only messing her crate once when a puppy. She did the mouthing but never drew blood. She also picked up walking quickly. My other dogs also were no way near the problems as this one. I've had dogs over 40 years including raising 2 shepherds from birth. I know what to expect but it's frustrating having all the problems at the same time. I now fully understand why shelters are loaded with dogs. I can only imagine someone with these problems with a pit bull or doberman.

I also agree it's my fault and my training wasn't the best. That's why I'm going to classes. Not all of us are professional trainers that can do everything right when the last time we had a puppy was 17 years ago. But keep in mind, most people won't have the patience and be willing to do what I've done. One guy in the training class after only 2 weeks already quit and gave his puppy away.

And for the biting, finally got that under control and you guys won't like it. A smack in the mouth and the scruff of the neck thing does wonders when they go for your face or they're stuck on your leg or arm and the blood is pouring out. I should have done it sooner. She just laughed at us with all the yelping, ignoring and 'just say no' business. When I yelped, she sunk her teeth in harder. When I ignored and turned my back, I got bit in the back of the legs and ankles. Got it under control in just 3 days and it didn't take much. Can't go out in public with bite marks on my face. My trainer finally suggested getting more ALPHA ROLLED and she demonstrated the scruff of the neck method (which I already knew but didn't want to use, even saw Cesar Milan do it on tv. Never had to do it with 7 previous dogs) All I kept hearing from the Vet and Trainer was 'you better get that under control!' Now it is.

Please back to Eyssa's problem!!
 

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I really think you shouldn't hit your dog. Among the many reasons why you shouldn't do this, I suspect the one that you would care most about is that it will cause more problems. If your dog seems to be biting less, it's the scruffing and not the hitting.
I want to say more, but I feel like it would only cause offense.
 

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Haven't gotten much sleep for 2 months I'm taking her out so much. Can't get her to go for walks in front of my house. I need to pick her up and go down the street. In all the books and videos you only see simple solutions to these problems, not ones for the complicated ones, thus the need for this forum.
Again - that's a puppy. They're babies. They can't always let you know they have to potty, and they don't get the point of the walk.

My other dogs also were no way near the problems as this one. I've had dogs over 40 years including raising 2 shepherds from birth. I know what to expect but it's frustrating having all the problems at the same time.
Sounds like you got lucky for a long time. I have a friend who just got a puppy and he's going nuts, complaining about how hard it is. Apparently his first one just knew everything. Most of them aren't that easy.

the last time we had a puppy was 17 years ago.
Perhaps you blocked out some of just how much work it is ;)

One guy in the training class after only 2 weeks already quit and gave his puppy away.
Probably better for the dog. Too bad he didn't do his research first.

A smack in the mouth and the scruff of the neck thing does wonders when they go for your face or they're stuck on your leg or arm and the blood is pouring out. I should have done it sooner. She just laughed at us with all the yelping, ignoring and 'just say no' business. When I yelped, she sunk her teeth in harder. When I ignored and turned my back, I got bit in the back of the legs and ankles.
I'd love to see a puppy that can laugh ;) I'd never recommend telling a dog no for biting, as they don't know what no means. They do know what being ignored is though. That's why you can tie them to something so you can walk away and not get bit in the ankles.

I realized with this new puppy that I never had to teach Sadie bite inhibition. Does that mean that now I'm going to resort to smacking Hadley because she's being a puppy? No.
 

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I had a long, detailed post written in your other thread because this one had a note for the mods to delete it, so I answered in the other one and lost my entire post. Ugh!

Basically, I agree with TooneyDogs. Ditch the crate at least for now, because your dog has been taught that's his bathroom. And supervise him. Leash him to you if you have to. Even at night. So when he wakes up and starts looking to potty, you can get up and take him outside.

Take him out regularly in the daytime (every hour at first) and keep a log of when he goes. Don't show frustration or anger EVER around the potty process. After a day or so, start taking him out every 2 hours, and continue to log his potty and feeding times. In other words, evaluate his routine. Use LOTS of praise when he goes outside. Have a potty party! Complete with delicious treats.

It's going to take a lot more work than just regular crate potty training, but stop relying on the crate because that is no longer an option. They lose that instinct when allowed to go in their sleeping area.
How about cutting up a patch of sod from the yard outside and putting it in the crate so it can get used to doing it on the grass? Or putting the crate outside?
 
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