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Discussion Starter #1
I was on Reddit today and someone was showing off their "Pugalier puppy". I know designer breeds are a dime a dozen but why on earth anyone would breed a Cavalier and a Pug together, particularly when they are both brachycephalic, boggles my mind (I know, it's because they are SOOO CUTE!!!1). All the comments were of course about how cute the puppy was and how people wanted one of their own. Just had to vent somewhere that understood why this was terrible. (it's certainly possible the correct health testing was done, but extremely unlikely).
 

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For the cuteness factor. That seems to be the only real reason I can think of. Nevermind all the health issues those poor dogs are going to have later down the road :/
 

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They are cute. But the potential health issues....scary!
 

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A question for someone smarter than me...

Even if the two parents were health checked, would it matter the least bit? Aren't these breeds SO different that any health testing will be made irrelevant as the diverse structures collide? Take hips for example. Would there be any reason to believe that decent hips on both sides would make for good hips in the pups given that the hips of a pug differ from the hip of a Cavalier?
 

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. . . Even if the two parents were health checked, would it matter the least bit? Aren't these breeds SO different that any health testing will be made irrelevant as the diverse structures collide? Take hips for example. Would there be any reason to believe that decent hips on both sides would make for good hips in the pups given that the hips of a pug differ from the hip of a Cavalier?
I'd like to point out that I think this mix is very risky as is the breeding of either purebred. Both breeds need to be bred with incredible care for all the health complications each juggles. Most of those in each breed do not have solid tests and require line knowledge.

Having said that how would the structures be considered to make testing irrelevent? I don't quite understand what is being referred to by structures being 'so different they would collide'. I can't picture the idea of structures 'colliding'. Usually they blend to some kind of moderation.

Unfortunately the Cavalier and Pug structures match in many ways as they share common ancestors - Cavaliers having a TON of Japanese Spaniel and Pekingese type influence in their background, as well as Toy Bulldog (Pugs were part of the Toy Bulldog make-up). Pugs originally derived from the 'Happa' type dogs - the same ones that had a great influence on the Pekingese. There are long standing rumors that Pugs had direct influence on the Toy Spaniel breed (precurser to Cavalier) in the 1800s.

So - Pugs have a brachycephalic head structure. Cavaliers are also known to have the MOST brachycephalic head structure (not muzzle but head). CM/SM is a known widespread problem in Cavaliers and a known problem in Pugs as well . . . not good for mixing and the Cavalier parent here, at least, should have had an MRI.

Both breeds have a good deal of CHD to deal with. This is denied by Cavalier and Pug breeders in different countries but in the USA it seems to be accepted so I'll go with OFAs opinion on it.

Both breeds can deal with brachycephalic airway syndrome, with IVDD, and with MVD, Cavaliers to a known great extent.

IMHO the risks in pairing these breeds has more to do with their similarities. Anyone undertaking such a breeding would have to have a great deal of knowledge if they want to lessen the risks for the pups, just as HAS to be the case for either of these breeds bred pure.

I've known about these mixes for years and don't take issue with the concept of mixing them. Their temperaments are complementary. Australia has had many breeders putting these two breeds together. The pups can be very cute, but I wouldn't risk one myself unless I saw a ton of knowledge from behind lines and health testing results as well. As that is an extreme rarity to find in the purebred breeders of these breeds I believe it would be even more difficult to find in those breeding mixes.

SOB
 

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They don't look much different from a puggle so I don't even see what unique "cute factor" they are getting.... possibly a sweeter temperament? Puggles are generally rather naughty and jumpy.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I was googling "Pugalier" to see what I found and someone on another message board brought up a good point...why not just get a King Charles Spaniel (also known as the English Toy Spaniel)? Not that they are a particularly healthy breed either but at least there's the benefit of it being an established breed. Of course, they are less well known than Cavaliers or Pugs (in the US at least). I'm not against the idea of outcrossing to another breed for health issues (in the case of the Cavalier in particular I think it needs to be looked at as a serious consideration) but it has be done carefully and with a lot of research, which I don't think is happening in these Pugalier crosses.
 

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Sheesh, there is an entire community for Pugaliers. I don't get how anyone can think of these dogs as cute. Pugs could need some outcrossing too, however I have no doubt in my mind that these people don't know anything about genetics, let alone care about health issues and genetics at all.
 

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I just chuckle to myself when I meet people who spent a lot of money on designer mutts. I got mine at the shelter for a $300 donation! He doesn't have a cutesy "breed" name, I have no idea what he's mixed with, but he's an awesome little guy! When people meet him I think they expect the cutesy mix name and I always just say "He's just a shelter mutt" and tell them where I adopted him from, and how his litter was going to be euthanized, and how great it was to rescue him!
 
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