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Choose one or more of the following

  • The dog queued therefore drugs are present

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The police violated the mens civil rights

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
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Discussion Starter #1
Another Dog Video Produced By PingPanther =^.^=
Late October 2008
New Circle @ Richmond Rd
Lexington Kentucky


In Kentucky (as with most of the USA) the police can not search your car without your permission unless they have one of the following. They either need a Judge to sign a search warrant, or they must have probable cause.

One way to get probable cause is to have a trained dog "sniff search" your car from the outside. If the dog detects and indicates that drugs are present, the police then have probable cause to search your car without a warrant... and of course without your permission.

This always seemed like a good idea to me until I shot the video you're about to see. Frankly, I'm not sure what went wrong. After you have seen the video, take a moment to consider your civil rights, then view the poll at the top of this string.

I call this dog video poll, "No Room for Error?"
 

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It almost looks like the dog was trained to sit down for no reason, so that the cops would have probable cause. That's the corrupt cops fault, not the dogs.

The dog gave the sign at the front at the car, but they were checking the trunk...I didn't see them look under the hood at all.
 

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There could easily have been drugs in the door panels or under the hub caps...places where it did not appear that they searched.

One of our dogs went on to become a drug dog and he was very good at it (is retired now). People hide drugs in all sorts of bizarre places. You also need to keep in mind how powerful the nose of a dog is. There may have been residue from awhile ago--something that a cursory search would not have turned up.

I would hesitate to say the dog made a mistake without more information. Videos like this are made to skew your perception, and wouldn't convince me one way or the other.
 

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It looks to me like they did not search everywhere drugs could have been stashed; under the hood, under the car, door panels, under seats in the car, inside the dash, etc.. I have never really watched police dogs at work, but I imagine that it is possible that there are dogs out there that are not trained properly or are unreliable. At any rate, this is an interesting video.
 

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all the times that i have seen drug dogs at work, if the dog cued at the door like that one did, they would have opened the door and had the dog continue.....this would tell them directly where to search....and if the owner of the car had no reason for them not to search, they would allow a complete search by the dog to start.....as mentioned above, i didn't see them search the door, under the hood, the wheel well, etc. ....to me, that's not an incompetant dog, it's an incompetant handler.....now granted, he may have cued on something that could have been there a while back, as mentioned also.....

on the voting part, i didn't put anything b/c any of the "dog" ones are possible, the dog should have been able to search further to say where he detected, and the cops should follow thru as needed there-after.....

(and it's "cue/d" not "queued" which means "lined up"):D:D
 

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From what I've seen of snifer dogs is that they are asked by thier handlers to indicate where they smelled the item. That wasn't asked at all by this handler. The dog just sat by the door and the handler gave it a treat and walked off so they could search the car. That's not the dogs fault. And I dont think the first sit was a signal. I think that was just the handler preparing the dog to start the search. It's also interesting that they didn't continue the "search" around the entire car after the first signal was given.

But to me that's all besides the point. I think if you've got nothing to hide then you wont object to a search. Yes it may be intrusive and a nusance, but it will also speed up the process of the cops sending you on your way. Then again I don't drive around with illegal substances in my car and try to avoid getting pulled over in the first place. Maybe the laws are different in KY, to my knowledge, if you're suspected of being under the infulence then thats probable cause to search your vehicle. Or at least that's how it is in all those cop videos.

It was mighty convenient for you to have your video cammera with you ;) You seems to always have it ready for that unexpected moment.
 

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Now, without sound, it looks to me like the dog is cued to sit by the handler's body language. And dogs' training CAN get screwed up. ut there's just no way to tell from a VIDEO. Presumably, it'll all get sorted out in court.
 

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Now, without sound, it looks to me like the dog is cued to sit by the handler's body language. And dogs' training CAN get screwed up. But there's just no way to tell from a VIDEO. Presumably, it'll all get sorted out in court.
That's what I saw too Dogstar. If you look at the body language of the handler there looked to be a slight raising of the hand indicating that he wanted the dog to sit. The dog didn't even start to sniff, he just came over to the front of the car and sat down. And if you ever watch K9 cops, they bark like nuts when they know they are going to "work" the barking may just have been the dog being excited.

Something wasn't right there.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
...I didn't see them look under the hood at all.
That occured to me too.

True! We arrived there 45 minutes before the dog could get there and only left after everyone else had gone. In the hour and a half that this entire operation took, they never opened the hood. I wonder why not?

wabanafcr said:
Videos like this are made to skew your perception, and wouldn't convince me one way or the other.
Oh I agree totally. You can only go by what you are presented. If I thought you guys would actually watch all the video we shot, I'd post it. Editors are forced to make decissions based on time, artistic quality of a clip, as well as their own perceptions of the situation. It gets worse if the editor was not at the sceen and has to gather everything he knows about the situation from someone elses video. In this case I was at the sceen as my cameraman shot the footage so there is that advantage. However, video is a malleable and in is possible to skew reality. I did my best here to keep focused on reality and not interject my own opinion, but much of the boring material did hit the cutting room floor.

It looks to me like they did not search everywhere drugs could have been stashed; under the hood, under the car, door panels, under seats in the car, inside the dash, etc.. I have never really watched police dogs at work, but I imagine that it is possible that there are dogs out there that are not trained properly or are unreliable. At any rate, this is an interesting video.
I have taught my dog Maggie to find stuff. Shoes, wallet, her collar & leash, etc. I'm not a professional trainer but I know my dog pretty well. Once night she was trying to get my attention to tell me something. I didn't know what she wanted because she will usually "cue" when I ask the right question.

"Do you want to go outside?"
No cue...

"Do you want some food?"
No cue...

"Do you want...?"

After asking her all the usual stuff I just figured she just wanted some lovin and I rubbed her up real good and later went off to bed. In other words, I didn't get it.

As I lay there to sleep I reflected on Maggie's beckoning when I realized, she looked down and toward the desk a couple times when I was trying to figure out what she wanted. I got out of bed and headed to the office, got down on my knees and looked under the desk. Sure enough she was trying to tell me that her ball was under the desk where she couldn't get to it. I didn't even know she still had a ball. She loses them all the time and I hadn't seen her with one in days!

I was so impressed that instead of going to back to bed I woke her up and we went outside to play ball in the middle of the night.

So there's that story, however sometimes Maggie & I don't have such great success when doing the "search" game. I have asked maggie to find her collar and even when it's out in open view, she'd go for the key's instead. Even though I knew that she clearly knows the difference.

Ping =^.^=

all the times that i have seen drug dogs at work, if the dog cued at the door like that one did, they would have opened the door and had the dog continue.....this would tell them directly where to search....

(and it's "cue/d" not "queued" which means "lined up"):D:D
Yeah! Exactly! Let the dog do its job! I loved this response. It's an obvious solution to save everyone a lot of time.

Ty for the spelling correctiion too. That kept bothering me as I wrote it the first couple times and I thought I'd get back to edit "queue" vs "it has to be something else". Haha! "Cue" of course. TY!

Ya know, Ping, it IS possible to start a thread that isn't a poll.

Oh, well yeah I guess it is but where's the fun in that? Haha just kidding.

Few readers care what I think, so I usually like to post objectively and include as many possibilities that fit the situation as I can. Then if the issue warrants discussion, I leave it to you decide for yourself. I use polls as a tool to get you thinking. Besides, the human world is too complicated to be just black and white. For me to simply post my opinion would seem too self centered.

Ping =^.-= :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
... Maybe the laws are different in KY, to my knowledge, if you're suspected of being under the infulence then thats probable cause to search your vehicle. Or at least that's how it is in all those cop videos.

It was mighty convenient for you to have your video cammera with you ;) You seems to always have it ready for that unexpected moment.
Hi animalcraker,

Ha-ha yeah... I watch those real live cop shows too. I am only guessing here, but you must have seen some of my other stuff to notice that I always seem to be in the right place at just the right time with a video camera.

*Grins really big*

That's no accident... ;)

About the dog handling part though. I can't comment much more than I already have. I'm reading the expert responses from you guys and I have to say that I've already gotten a few new insights into the handling of these dogs just by listening to you guys.

That's what I saw too Dogstar. If you look at the body language of the handler there looked to be a slight raising of the hand indicating that he wanted the dog to sit. The dog didn't even start to sniff, he just came over to the front of the car and sat down. And if you ever watch K9 cops, they bark like nuts when they know they are going to "work" the barking may just have been the dog being excited.

Something wasn't right there.
I was expecting someone to bring this up and I've been dreading how to respond to your basic question. I also noticed that the dog didn't do much sniffing.

I guess the question is, "When did the dog detect the scent and determine the location of the scent was in the car?"

I don't know when it was but it's been bothering me that it doesn't appear that the dog was given a opportunity to really examine the car (even from the outside). Maybe the oder was so strong that it didn't need to do more than get near the car? See this is one of those things that video can not express as wabanafcr was saying earlier.

In this case we need Smellavision!

haha
 
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