Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 67 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello fellow pet lovers,
Pet overpopulation is a problem that we in the animal care business witness every day. I am doing research on the problem of pet overpopulation for my senior thesis research at Western Connecticut State University and was wondering if you could assist me by taking part in a short survey. The following link will take you directly to my survey:
http://www.surveybuilder.com/s/LabGGfVpgAA
Thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated by both myself and our furry friends.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
Hello fellow pet lovers,
Pet overpopulation is a problem that we in the animal care business witness every day. I am doing research on the problem of pet overpopulation for my senior thesis research at Western Connecticut State University and was wondering if you could assist me by taking part in a short survey. The following link will take you directly to my survey:
http://www.surveybuilder.com/s/LabGGfVpgAA
Thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated by both myself and our furry friends.
/Tried to take it but none of the answers were relevant and it appears to be AR propaganda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
Your survey had on it a leading question.

It was this one.

"Please indicate which of the following factors contribute MOST to pet overpopulation:"

These were the offered answer choices -
Large chains (such as Petco and Petsmart),
USDA certified breeders,
"Backyard" breeders,
Poor economy,
Animal shelters,
Unaltered/ not fixed animals,
Private breeders,
No-kill policies,"

Where is the choice for 'false promotion of the pet overpopulation myth'? That myth is the cause of the more deaths than all the other choices combined.

Debunking Pet Ovepopulation - http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=1390

I therefore reported the survey as having inappropriate content.

SOB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Relevant to what? Unless you are doing my research for me, you have no idea what my goals are. Please be kind to a person who has been working professionally (not voluntarily) in the pet care and rescue for over a decade. I am only trying to make a difference with my thesis instead of writing a 30 page paper on the social construction of the term "cougar", as a fellow classmate of mine is regrettably doing...
Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
To "spanielorbust": I would like to know how many high kill shelters you have worked at where you have to load between 5 and 20 dogs (just dogs, not including cats and other small animals)into an incinerator every single day? If you give me a good number then I will think you quite mad for posting such nonsense. If that isn't overpopulation, I don't know what is. Please do some proper research before speaking out of term like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
. . . . I am only trying to make a difference with my thesis instead of writing a 30 page paper on the social construction of the term "cougar", as a fellow classmate of mine is regrettably doing...
The largest difference a paper on 'pet overpopulation' will make will be to get more animals killed as you are promoting the myth and the excuse to kill.

Perhaps you can make a paper on the 'no-kill' movement and the success it is finding. Perhaps you could have a gander over to the yesbiscuit blog and make a paper on corrupt and ineffective pound systems. Perhaps a paper on pounds that supply fighting dogs for that ilk. There is enough on that one blog and in the links to stories surrounding MAS to do a full thesis I'm sure.

That might be something worth doing.

http://yesbiscuit.wordpress.com/

Or if you are sincere, change your survey.

If that isn't overpopulation, I don't know what is. Please do some proper research before speaking out of term like that.
That is NOT overpopulation. That is the deliberate killing of animals, not by you or those doing the direct killing, but that is caused by the apathy in leadership in a system that is entrenched in the catch and kill model that it originated in and therefore does not take steps to do things differently. Leaders would rather BLAME overpopulation than make changes. Hence why I detest the promotion of that excuse.

SOB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
You aren't really that naive, are you??... I worked intake and animal control dispatch at a shelter where we had numbers between the 50's to 100's coming in every SINGLE day!! Where do you propose those animals go? Please enlighten me... I'd love to hear it <3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
Relevant to what? Unless you are doing my research for me, you have no idea what my goals are. Please be kind to a person who has been working professionally (not voluntarily) in the pet care and rescue for over a decade. I am only trying to make a difference with my thesis instead of writing a 30 page paper on the social construction of the term "cougar", as a fellow classmate of mine is regrettably doing...
Thank you.
When your thesis is based on false information it's not likely to be useful. The problem is not pet overpopulation. It
is irresponsible ownership, and shelters that make no real effort to get animals out alive. It's been proven that shelters which are able to dedicate themselves to the animals they hold can gain a close to 0 euthanasia of healthy, adoptable animals. HSUS and the Asilomar Accords actually encourage euthanasia as a necessary and acceptable method for shelters.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,893 Posts
Pet overpopulation is a myth.......

And I have been involved with dogs for nearly 40 years and have been involved with rescue for 25.

BTW..... I answered your survey.... Twice actually. Once from my work computer and from my home computer. I will probably answer it again tomorrow from my laptop. Heck.... I may ride around all weekend and answer it from as many computers as I can.

But you are not going to like my answers because it does not fit with your predefined agenda and leading questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I agree 100% on the irresponsible owners part, but what are we to do in the meantime? We can't change everyone's minds all at once- believe me, I have done extensive research on the animal rights movement and what a long and arduous journey they have had to get to where we are today. One day I hope we can live in a world where shelters don't even have to exist, but until that day we need to deal with reality, and that reality is that there are too many pets, not enough homes. PERIOD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
How do you know what answers I want? ... and just to let you know, a GOOD researcher doesn't go into research with answers they "would like to hear". They go into it trying to learn something new :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
I agree 100% on the irresponsible owners part, but what are we to do in the meantime? We can't change everyone's minds all at once.
The problem is less too many pets and not enough homes than the basic catch and kill philosophy HSUS and the Asilomar Accords promote. It doesn't have to be that way.

- believe me, I have done extensive research on the animal rights movement and what a long and arduous journey they have had to get to where we are today. One day I hope we can live in a world where shelters don't even have to exist, but until that day we need to deal with reality, and that reality is that there are too many pets, not enough homes. PERIOD.
I knew it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
How do you know what answers I want? ... and just to let you know, a GOOD researcher doesn't go into research with answers they "would like to hear". They go into it trying to learn something new :)
I hope that's true. Maybe I should respond to the leading and misleading survey a few times too,. A good researcher wants objective answers and doesn't count on leading questions,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
What is that supposed to mean? I am here to do research, not to start fights, so please stop badgering me. If you don't like what I have to say, ignore it an move on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
You aren't really that naive, are you??... I worked intake and animal control dispatch at a shelter where we had numbers between the 50's to 100's coming in every SINGLE day!! Where do you propose those animals go? Please enlighten me... I'd love to hear it <3
I believe you are the one being naive. You've bought the myth.

I started volunteering 30 years ago at a kill shelter and have been involved as a dog walker, rescuer, or fosterer from that point forward. The kill shelter I originally started at is no longer a kill shelter. It services a city of over 1 million and because WE had leadership with vision our communities attitude changed, intakes lowered, and that open admission shelter system has not had to euthanize adoptable healthy dogs for over a decade. MANY communities in the USA are having success working toward no-kill or are achieving no-kill success already. Others have work to do on a more ingrained culture, and I understand that, but that is not reflective of 'overpopulation'.

http://yesbiscuit.blogspot.ca/2009/03/no-kill-movement-and-pet-population.html

One day I hope we can live in a world where shelters don't even have to exist, but until that day we need to deal with reality, and that reality is that there are too many pets, not enough homes. PERIOD.
I linked this earlier, but as some don't like to click links here it is.

"1. How many dogs and cats enter shelters annually? 8 million. (Some put it as low as 6 million, but I am going to use a “worst case” scenario.)

2. Of those how many are savable? 90 percent or just over 7 million.

3. Of those how many will be saved? 4 million.

4. How many of the savable animals are killed? 3 million.

5. How many need to find new homes? If shelters are doing their jobs comprehensively, just over 2 million (3 million on the high end). The remainder should be increased reclaims or in the case of feral cats, TNR’d.

6. Other than those who will adopt from a shelter as a matter of course (those saved above), how many people in the U.S. are looking to bring a new dog or cat into their home next year but have not decided where they will get the animal and can be influenced to adopt from a shelter? 17 million. So, 17 million people for 2-3 million dogs and cats.

7. Has this happened anywhere? Yes, there are many communities which have hit the 90th percentile in save rates.

8. How long did it take them? They did it virtually overnight when new leadership committed to the No Kill philosophy and passionate about saving lives replaced long standing bureaucrats mired in defeatism and excuse making.

9. Are shelters doing all they can to influence those people to adopt from them? This is a rhetorical question. Click here (audio) for an all-too-common experience shared with me by a potential adopter when I was assessing a local shelter.

10. Why don’t they do better? A failure of leadership among the national animal welfare groups such as ASPCA and HSUS, a crisis of uncaring among shelter managers, unfettered discretion to avoid putting in place the programs and services that save lives, and the built in excuse of pet overpopulation."​

IF the issues that cause the death of our pets in shelters continue to be commonly misidentified then they will not be addressed. Overpopulation is NOT what is getting our pets killed. Retention is the bigger problem, along with others. High on the list of others is shelter mismanagement. As long as the focus is on the myth that claims overpopulation is the problem, then retention and shelter mismanagement will not be addressed.

For all dogs to be adopted from shelters ~25% of people looking to acquire a dog need to go to those shelters. Currently many (most) are sourcing pups through dubious breeders and the unscrupulous disguised as rescues as well. We truly do not have ENOUGH caring ethical breeders.

Shelters NEED to be places people WANT to go to get dogs.

Shelters need to take an active role in leading a change in community attitudes toward pet ownership responsibility. Making THAT happen, again, is up to the shelter system.

From a presentation given by Bill Bruce, the AC for Calgary, Alberta, that runs an animal control that is the envy of all of North America (notice especially the comment at 5:25 which addresses overpopulation)

Noted points –

(2:50)". . . Focusing on animal services tonight - a lot about our public education. I give that its own category because it is so important.

(3:19) So what do we at animals services do? We encourage responsible pet ownership. We do that with licensing, with public education, and when it’s necessary, enforcement.

(4:01) Returning pets to owner - core business for me. That’s my number one thing I do is return the pets to owner.

(4:20) How do you go from vision into action? This is really basic business planning 101. The first step is to identify your issues. As human beings we have a real tendency to want to move to solutions right away. Take a step back. Be clear on what the issues are, engage the stakeholders, find out who the stakeholders are . . . . build processes that work. Educate people how to use it.

(5: 25) So because I think we should all be continuous learners, I just learned this last year after having been through literally hundreds of shelters. Uh, in North America, and this is Canada and the US, we don’t really have a problem with overpopulation, stray animals, nuisance or vicious animals. We have got a problem with responsible pet ownership. Virtually every pet I meet in a shelter started out its life in a human relationship. That relationship has failed, the animal ends up in a shelter. So somewhere that responsible pet ownership contract fell apart.

(5:55) When I came into animal control ten years ago . . . the definition of insanity is continuing to do things the same way we always have and thinking we are going to get different results this time – that is what I saw happening up in my jurisdiction with animal control.

(6:25) For us that turning point was really shifting our thinking away from traditional animal control to responsible pet ownership

(6:50) Its not an animal control bylaw, it is a responsible pet ownership bylaw – because its all targeted at the human being and getting them to change their behaviour. . ."


http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2007/09/canine-legisl-2.html

SOB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
What is that supposed to mean? I am here to do research, not to start fights, so please stop badgering me. If you don't like what I have to say, ignore it an move on.
If you are here to do research, the opinions of others should be important. If you don't like other opinions, no sense in asking, It also helps if you quote what you are responding to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Please let me know how my questions are leading? I need to know if I am going to do research properly... in all seriousness, I am not being sarcastic or anything.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,893 Posts
How do you know what answers I want? ... and just to let you know, a GOOD researcher doesn't go into research with answers they "would like to hear". They go into it trying to learn something new :)
Not hard to figure out..... You have an animal rights agenda.... Actually you sound really misguided.

I love this question BTW....
Please indicate the organization held responsible for regulating the care and living conditions of the sale of pets for commercial reasons (non-rescue sales): People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC)

Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC) Animal Control Officer (ACO)/Police

Animal Control Officer (ACO)/Police United States Department of Agriculture (USDA)

United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)

Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) American Kennel Club (AKC)

American Kennel Club (AKC)

Only two of these organizations have ANY sort of regulatory power... Anywhere.... The fact that you have both peta and h$us on there.... Says a ton.......

BTW..... peta operates a shelter...... They euthanize the VAST majority of animals they take in. Without attempting to home them.....

And then there are the two peta employees that were convicted of going through the Carolinas, pulling dogs from shelters, euthanizing them, and dumping them in Piggly Wiggly dumpsters.... They used a van owned by peta......
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,893 Posts
Please let me know how my questions are leading? I need to know if I am going to do research properly... in all seriousness, I am not being sarcastic or anything.
This question is VERY leading....
Please indicate which of the following factors contribute MOST to pet overpopulation:
(1 being the least contribution, 5 being the most contribution) :
1 2 3 4 5
Large chains (such as Petco and Petsmart)
USDA certified breeders
"Backyard" breeders
Poor economy
Animal shelters
Unaltered/ not fixed animals
Private breeders
No-kill policies


There is no way to make a choice that you do not feel that there is a pet overpopulation problem.

And then the question where peta and h$us are possible answers.
 
1 - 20 of 67 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top